[Ni] Ni in SPs

[Andy]

I generally don't conceptualize.. For you, it'd probably be different. I think I'm more creative in the process of things...getting the juices flowing in a way. When it works in tandem with Fi and Se. I don't look at blank canvases per se (literal ones or figurative)...I just get the urge to do something first, I guess?

Outside creativity (like general social life), I've read that Fi in IFPs is always evaulating when/where/how what's seen in Extraverted Perception is compatible, and the Tert contributes to this defensive process (personally I can get like this.. I don't value Se in an extremely flowing/receptive way all the time). Si might cause an INFP to pull away a bit (I'd like to hear their own words though).. Ni in ISFPs would cause them to embody some of their critique (how.. I dunno. In style maybe.. Or breaking into animal labs and freeing monkeys or something The sky's the limit).

Sure, if that's how it works for you. I'm not trying to prescride how it has to work for everyone, of course, but because that would be silly. Worse yet, it would be wrong.

I suppose I do conceptulise a lot. Ni is my prime function, and it rather rules my life.

I've mentioned it before: functions operate in different ways for different people. I think what I said probably is one way it can make itself known to an ISFP. When Ni misfires, it can cause them to start diregarding things as meaningless and arbitary. When that happens, it probably starts to get in the way of creativity, rather than promoting it. It all gets a bit angsty.

The other way Ni works is as part of novel thought. As an INJ, I spend most of my life twisting and turning ideas around in my head. An ISFP wont take it to that extent, but flipping an idea around may provide them with some new inspiration. Like... a photographer might suddenyt decide that rather than developing the negatives, he's going to use the negatives themselves as his art.

 

[KDude]

Cool..I can draw some comparisons with those examples too. Even the meaningless and arbitrary part.. I've done that on a few things (and still do) and finalize some sort of closure on that kind of decision making. I might be right in a certain light, but I guess Se eventually gets me to laugh about something, and I say "Screw it" and adjust. It feels nice to be there at the time, but once I get moving again, it's nothing.. like a bump in the road. I just wish there was a bit more on this side of things that I could be productive with.. an ISFP's life is full of a lot of compromise and adapting compared to NTJ. Tbh, I wish there more of a middle area here.

 

[StephMC]

I made a post about how I use Ni a while back. And I'm so lazy that instead of re-forming a similar response, I searched through the forum for my post.

While I can relate to most of those, I strongly relate to these:
- "experience a premonition or foresee the unexpected " : These moments always happen unexpectedly, but they're not all that rare at the same time. Usually happens along with the one below... it just clicks into place.
- "suddenly realize an 'ah ha!' answer out of nowhere "
- "feel pulled to the symbolic, archetypal or mysterious " : I've always been drawn to unexpected things... dreams, symbols, archetypes, etc. Sometimes people feel it's contradicting to put credit on these things when you're such a realist... but I don't really care.
- "layout how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs " and "feel certain that future changes will unfold in a foreseen way " : Used with the first one and the one above...my subconcious is constantly collecting a ton of data and some of it's interpreted into symbols. After enough of these "signs", my intuition becomes suspicious that something is about to happen. That ranges from really specific, like meeting someone and knowing what our relationship will be like a year from now, to vague such as: "Crap... gotta prepare myself. Something bad is about to happen." Since it is only my third function, I don't trust these hunches as well as I'd like to... that's why I say "suspicious."
- "rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten or transform " : I use certain symbols and objects as a means to keep myself grounded and motivate myself.
- "deliberately pick a specific problem to sleep on and awaken with the full answer " : This is the worst. I never sleep well on these nights. They're somewhat frequent. And sometimes it's not even really deliberate.

Bottom line: I love my Ni. It may not be as efficient as NJs'... but I feel like it still plays a huge part in how I think and who I am. They say that your third function is something you're drawn to in you 20's and are fascinated by. It also is the function you seem most playful and childlike when using. I'd say that's fairly accurate. I get excited and giddy when I use it sometimes, especially in the "aha!" moments. Other times, when Ni makes me lock onto an intense scenario that I feel will play out in the near future, I become more serious and withdrawn. I rarely share my insights in those cases.

...and I was responding to this post:

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/develop_old.html

Section 8, part 5

 

[Rainne]

Ni for me is:

"Don't worry, it's going to be all right. It will work out."

 

[KDude]

^My Se tells me that

 

[Rainne]

^My Se tells me that

lol

are you sure it's not -

"I GOT THIS YO"

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Ni in ISFPs would cause them to embody some of their critique (how.. I dunno. In style maybe.. Or breaking into animal labs and freeing monkeys or something The sky's the limit).

yes.

"feel pulled to the symbolic, archetypal or mysterious " : I've always been drawn to unexpected things... dreams, symbols, archetypes, etc. Sometimes people feel it's contradicting to put credit on these things when you're such a realist... but I don't really care.

and yes.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

ISFP: The Crackpot

ISFP personalities are characterized by their impulsiveness, their defiance of conformity and orthodoxy, and their competitive natures. Taken together, these traits make up the ideal crackpot. While an ISFP's personality might seem flighty and their attention span short to an outsider, ISFPs live by the motto "Life is best approach--oh, look, potato chips!"

ISFPs are always on the cutting edge of new trends. Whether it's podcasting, taking up guitar, or running away to a far-off east African compound and joining a doomsday apocalyptic cult, ISFPs are always following their hearts and quickly embracing new ideas. However, they tend to be fleeting in their passions, which means they often may lack the dedication that marks a true cultist. While ISFPs often lack the dedication most people give to careers and family, they can still support themselves in more unorthodox ways, like by selling blood plasma, turning tricks, and mooching off their family.

RECREATION: ISFPs enjoy activities that cater to their emotional passions, and often pursue many hobbies, such as music, painting, sculpting, and running off to Vegas to marry that cute waitress from Mack's Truck Stop over on Route 9. Whenever God speaks to someone, it's usually an ISFP.

COMPATIBILITY: ISFPs do well in relationships with ISFJs and with anyone they meet in Las Vegas.

Famous ISFPs include Joan of Arc and--oh, look, potato chips!

the highlighted, though this is just a humorous description... is a combination of Fi and Ni at work together.

 

[KDude]

lol

are you sure it's not -

"I GOT THIS YO"

It tells me that too.

But that could be bad too, if my "I got this, yo!" was originally inspired by bad Ni. I was talking about Kobe Bryant in another thread. I bet his earlier career airballs came from this. I got this yo! wonk, wonk

My long take on this..

I just kind see Ni as some other element of introversion..that's percieving things in a new or deeper/inspiring way, which could be creative, but also misfire like Andy said. If hold on to an idea that isn't profiting much, I still might hold on because.. I suppose... Fi is attached to it in some way. Like a leech. It takes Se to kick it off. If someone or my own research starts throwing new details in my face, shows me some facts, I'm like "Uh... shit. Alright. I have to go with something else." So that puts me back at dealing with things as they are, and I tell myself something like the above. "It's going to be alright." I figured that's part of Se.. a sort of "in the moment" sense of chill and disregard for the direction I was trying to push before.

In an ISTP, say they were a stereotypical mechanic, and they had some bright idea on modifying their car... and it ends up being a mistake. Maybe some guy could still keep pushing this idea though. Even though he's tooling around in Se, he was originally inspired by some bad Ni idea.. until a friend just has to snap him out of it.. "Dude, it doesn't work." The minute he reverses his decision and deals with the facts would be Se too. And if his car's kind of as shitty as it was before, and he just accepts it, and says "it's going to be alright", I think that's Se. He'll just have to come up with something else.

 

[KDude]

the highlighted, though this is just a humorous description... is a combination of Fi and Ni at work together.

I was telling Whatever that Milla in that Joan of Arc movie was an awesome (but questionably insane) take on some ISFP traits.. and on the character in general. I think it got panned by critics, but I kind of liked that movie (especially the end, in the jail scenes). Definitely recommend it

 

[Sinmara]

Ni is what makes me somewhat insightful into situations with little information. I don't rely on it that much. If I get an Ni "hunch" than I tend to try to gather more facts to back up my hunch. Often I find that my Ni hunches are a little off.

I've never understood why people are so distrustful of their Ni hunches and consider them so unreliable. I see this everywhere. I mean, it's not just people expressing this opinion -- I've seen Ni described as unreliable from other sources as well.

For example, in the ESTP description at personalitypage.com, it says, "An ESTP will occasionally have strong intuitions which are often way off-base, but sometimes very lucid and positive. The ESTP does not trust their instincts, and is suspicious of other people's intuition as well."

Again, I don't get this at all.

My hunches? Are spot-on. In fact, NOT listening to my hunches has gotten me into some seriously bad trouble. I learned the hard way to listen to my instincts. They know better than I do. Even if they make absolutely no sense to me in the moment, trusting them and watching events unfold proves to me how right they are.

My closer friends have learned to listen to me when I warn them of how events will unfold in regards to human behavior. When I give something my full attention and give one of my "forecasts," I guess you could call it, it's incredibly uncommon that I'm wrong. It's very frustrating when I say, "this is going to happen," but the person doesn't like what I have to say, so they ignore my advice and I can only sit by and watch the bad crap unfold I had warned them about. I absolutely hate saying I-Told-You-So, but I hate it more when people come crying to me all, "omg life sucks cuz this and that happened!" and I'm like, "You should listen to me next time, retard."

Mkay, enough bitching about that.

So, yeah. My Ni? It's very well developed, and I fucking love it. It's no shrivelled up little prune as it's suggested by being my 4th function. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that I was raised by an ISTP, so it's possible that I got a head-start on the whole Ni thing from learning by example.

 

[Jeffster]

The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.

 

[gromit]

Yes I feel that way a lot too Jeffster. I ordered a book that a couple people have suggested which will maybe help with some standard definitions so then maybe I can see if I really understand any of it.

It does seem like everyone has their own perspective, though...

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone though! I am putting functions on hold for a little while until I get the chance to read it in a more logical format.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

^yeah, i'm still having difficulty in understanding how Ni differs from Ne, or Si from Se, and so forth. i've looked up some websites, but it offered little help really.

 

[Sinmara]

The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.

Yeah, I have trouble with that too. In the beginning I thought I might have been some type other than ESTP, since my Ni was so strong (and I can only assume it's Ni that's going on here, since it's described as being similar to premonition), but after studying all of the types, ESTP (with ISTP as a runner-up) was the only thing that fit. Either I'm wrong, or I'm an abnormal example of my type, or the system has a major flaw in it.

The main issue I have with the functions theory is the idea that specific functions develop at specific ages. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they can't all be present at once and just all be immature. Ni is my last function and I had that down to a science by my early teens, along with all of my other functions.

 

[KDude]

I can use my "Te" too, but I'm not gonna say I like it necessarily. There could be different dynamics in my type compared to yours maybe, where Fi wants to be pleasant or at least, highly aware about my own comfort level...and so any other approach is sort of in conflict with it. I think I developed enough in a way though to use some of it because I grew up around so much Te.. but it's like I have bad associations with it that it just comes in negative forms usually. I was reading Naomi Quenk's book and she would describe this as stress/being in the grip of shadow behavior (she says sometimes it's chronic too).. and it's not a good use of Te in the way you're using Ni.

Also, the more I become aware of how positive Te can be, maybe I'll get better at it. Right now, my attitude almost instinctually categorizes it's approach as "Asshole!" O_O ..tends to rub me wrong, down to how some people word things. I don't want to say all Te's are like that though. But in many instances, I end up wanting to express in the way I see it. Becoming an asshole myself. Otherwise, I don't even use it.. I might organize my music library at best And that's kind of relaxing actually.. but I pretty much suck at breaking things down that way and categorizing anything too much beforehand to have life controllable or methodical in that sense. Even this post is gibberish probably.

Hmm, anyways, perhaps you're just in the right position to appreciate Ni or something. I know people (ESPs) that I'm gonna say don't like thinking in that way, but you seem a little different in your interests as an ESTP. I mean, you're half-Madonna subtype and half Halo Girl Pretty well rounded. And maybe that's all it is.. being well rounded.

 

[Andy]

^yeah, i'm still having difficulty in understanding how Ni differs from Ne, or Si from Se, and so forth. i've looked up some websites, but it offered little help really.

Careful! 90% of what you read online about function theory is tripe. Ripe tripe, at that.

I found the easiest way to understand the differances came when I pulled back a little, and started off by thinking about them as extroverted percieving and introverted percieving. The fundamental differance between the two is that extroverted functions create a drive to experience the world, where as introverted functions create a desire to sit back and try to understand things.

The extroverted percieving functions both create a drive to explore and experiment. There doesn't need to be any particular goal. An EP will happily set off, just to see what happens.

Introverted percieving functions are the inverse of this attitude. They are both drives to understand what and why things happen, and plan ahead.

It is this inversion that explain why the two types of function alienate each other. The greater the drive to just explore, the more repressed the need to plan ahead and understand ones reasons for doing something (and also the converse).

Thus have primary extroverted percieving forces the introverted percieving into the inferior position and having primary intoverted percieving crushes the extroverted percieving.

Both attitudes have their pros and cons. EPs will tend to build up a board base of experiences, but risk becomeing unfocused and never mastering anything in particular. IJs usually have deep, sharpened skills, but risk becomeing over specialised.

Moving on to look at the specifics of each function...

Se is more concerned with exploring the physical essence of the world and how they fit into it. An ISFP artist may use Se to explore how media can be used to express there thoughts and feelings, how a dance can change the emotions of those who see it or participate, for example. Se is more the exploritive side of extroverted percieving. Se is concerned with what the experience itself does to you and the world.

Ne is more concerned with concepts and how they relate to what exists. They tend to be greate experimenters, drawn to indulge in things because of what they represent, more than because of what they actually are. An ENP may grow cystals in a dish, not because they have any use for them, but rather because they represent the chemistry they've been reading about. Or they may spend days scrambling around in the mud, digging up little bits of broken pottery because of the history they carry.

Si is a function that asks "What makes you think this method/idea will work?" Why do people believe that success is probable if you follow this course of action? As a motivation, it causes SJs to try and maximise there odds of sccess or at least avoiding disaster. Si wants proof that something will work, hence they way it is associated with things that are "tride and true".

Ni is more inclined to ask "Why are we doing this at all?" What is the motivation for all this effort, and most of all, does that motivation interest me? Is there really any reason why I shouldn't try to do somethinf completely different?

Does that explanation of the functions help any?

 

[wolfy]

The above is another example of why I have a tough time swallowing these function theories. Basically, they mean whatever people decide to attach them to, whether that's consistent with anybody else's definition or not.

That is what I like about them. They are just abstractions to reflect on, not to clarify. Like an image of something represents almost the same thing to everybody, yet at the same time is different for everybody.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Careful! 90% of what you read online about function theory is tripe. Ripe tripe, at that.

I found the easiest way to understand the differances came when I pulled back a little, and started off by thinking about them as extroverted percieving and introverted percieving. The fundamental differance between the two is that extroverted functions create a drive to experience the world, where as introverted functions create a desire to sit back and try to understand things.

The extroverted percieving functions both create a drive to explore and experiment. There doesn't need to be any particular goal. An EP will happily set off, just to see what happens.

Introverted percieving functions are the inverse of this attitude. They are both drives to understand what and why things happen, and plan ahead.

It is this inversion that explain why the two types of function alienate each other. The greater the drive to just explore, the more repressed the need to plan ahead and understand ones reasons for doing something (and also the converse).

Thus have primary extroverted percieving forces the introverted percieving into the inferior position and having primary intoverted percieving crushes the extroverted percieving.

Both attitudes have their pros and cons. EPs will tend to build up a board base of experiences, but risk becomeing unfocused and never mastering anything in particular. IJs usually have deep, sharpened skills, but risk becomeing over specialised.

Moving on to look at the specifics of each function...

Se is more concerned with exploring the physical essence of the world and how they fit into it. An ISFP artist may use Se to explore how media can be used to express there thoughts and feelings, how a dance can change the emotions of those who see it or participate, for example. Se is more the exploritive side of extroverted percieving. Se is concerned with what the experience itself does to you and the world.

Ne is more concerned with concepts and how they relate to what exists. They tend to be greate experimenters, drawn to indulge in things because of what they represent, more than because of what they actually are. An ENP may grow cystals in a dish, not because they have any use for them, but rather because they represent the chemistry they've been reading about. Or they may spend days scrambling around in the mud, digging up little bits of broken pottery because of the history they carry.

Si is a function that asks "What makes you think this method/idea will work?" Why do people believe that success is probable if you follow this course of action? As a motivation, it causes SJs to try and maximise there odds of sccess or at least avoiding disaster. Si wants proof that something will work, hence they way it is associated with things that are "tride and true".

Ni is more inclined to ask "Why are we doing this at all?" What is the motivation for all this effort, and most of all, does that motivation interest me? Is there really any reason why I shouldn't try to do somethinf completely different?

Does that explanation of the functions help any?

actually, yes! thank you.

i still yearn to learn more about it though. care to add in some about Fe vs. Fi and Te vs. Ti?

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Ni is what makes me somewhat insightful into situations with little information. I don't rely on it that much. If I get an Ni "hunch" than I tend to try to gather more facts to back up my hunch. Often I find that my Ni hunches are a little off.

Ni "misfires" sometimes when I tell myself a story about a situation that is exaggerated and probably untrue. Ni can be helpful, but since mine is not strong, I try to take it with a grain of salt. Need my facts.

Ditto. For me it's also sometimes a magical solution to a problem I hadn't thought out but it appears in my head instantly.