[NF] NFs dating SJs

[Fidelia]

That makes two SJs I know know that love reading and discussing books. When I have gone to the homes of many SJs however, I have seen something very neat and devoid of paper and books (which will help it to remain so). I was surprised with my ESTJ to have a lot in common as far as literature (we both loved classics) and he was a high school English teacher, so there definitely is a stereotype that isn't always accurate.

I agree with your statement:
I think most people IRL are just not as interested i nbooks or anything that requires too much thought, due to various ways society is set up to (mal)function nowadays.

When SJs read though, what are they paying the most attention to? If most of the thought process is already decided on what you think about something, you would not be debating and discussing with yourself or others whether you agree or disagree or changing your mind/assimilating would you? So how do you interact with it instead? Is it more a process of gathering information when you aren't sure about something, or confirming something you already believed?

I don't think the SJs are shallow. It seems to me more that there is a lot going on inside sometimes that they aren't even wishing to look at (because vulnerability is uncomfortable), so it is unlikely that others will ever get to see it.

 

[Amira]

That makes two SJs I know know that love reading and discussing books. When I have gone to the homes of many SJs however, I have seen something very neat and devoid of paper and books (which will help it to remain so).

Well, my house is kind of snowed under with paper and books, I would like to have more shelves so that things could be better contained!

When SJs read though, what are they paying the most attention to? If most of the thought process is already decided on what you think about something, you would not be debating and discussing with yourself or others whether you agree or disagree or changing your mind/assimilating would you? So how do you interact with it instead? Is it more a process of gathering information when you aren't sure about something, or confirming something you already believed?

Oh, I interact with books in very much of an internal debate way. Another ISTJ (I forget which) said once that they were good at figuring out what was correct and what they believed from a bunch of resources and putting it into a cohesive whole and that is what I do with my reading. I love researching and I love finding out new things that make something else make sense or that change something for the better. That sounds like I read biographies and how-to books, doesn't it? I actually mostly read fiction and animal books. I love Georgette Heyer books, for example. Her books are VERY well written and so I think of endless things while I'm reading - I might think about how she is writing, how she might have researched it, how she got the characters to be so real, what a cool factoid about the language... I also have many, many books whose characters feel like friends. My family and I have read most of the same books over the years so we will constantly say, "Remember when Freckles said ____?" as if he was a real person. Mostly I just enjoy savoring the book but I'm not sure how to define that.

 

[GZA]

I dated an SJ breifly (ESFJ). Some aspects of her personality I really adored, like her self-sufficiency and how thoughtful and caring she could be about the people around her. However, there were also some things in her I never really related to, like materialistic interests. I was willing and able to sort of overlook the things I didn't relate to or was slightly turned off by, but in the end she broke up amicably with me for unspecified reasons that in hindsight were very obvious. Like others have said, we just don't click very well romantically, there is somewhat of a wall in communication between my interest in abstraction, absurdity, and chaos and her more concrete and practical interests. We're still good friends and we hang out all the time, so it's all good.

 

[Snow Turtle]

When SJs read though, what are they paying the most attention to? If most of the thought process is already decided on what you think about something, you would not be debating and discussing with yourself or others whether you agree or disagree or changing your mind/assimilating would you? So how do you interact with it instead? Is it more a process of gathering information when you aren't sure about something, or confirming something you already believed?

For me this is an enneagram 6 thing that SJs tend to be. I'm somewhat of a doubter of my own position, which drive me forward to research more and stay in the background rather than state something with uncertainty. In that manner, I'm constantly internally debating with myself as I collect information to decide which position I'm best in.

Therefore most of the time when I speak up, it'll only be to offer insight, answer questions or to ask questions. While not impossible, I'm more unlikely to do this whole figure out things talking to people about a subject matter, I'm more likely to sit there listening and learning.

Conflicts are interesting. Usually it's either a case of miscommunication, bad data or a case of: Well that's your perspective, there's no point debating it. Neither party will really change position.

 

[EJCC]

My SJ uncle is always talking about "the old style" and he is still replaying his music collection from the 70's, daily, you'd think 30 years is enough to get played out.

Hm. Not sure if this is a good example of "living in the past". I mostly listen to music made before I was born, but that's just because I like it more than Top 40 radio now. I'm still living in the present when I listen to it.
Of course, I'm nitpicking. I see, understand, and appreciate the concept.

That makes two SJs I know know that love reading and discussing books. When I have gone to the homes of many SJs however, I have seen something very neat and devoid of paper and books (which will help it to remain so). I was surprised with my ESTJ to have a lot in common as far as literature (we both loved classics) and he was a high school English teacher, so there definitely is a stereotype that isn't always accurate.

I also like to read. However, I was generally never a fan of "literature" as taught in the English classroom. I can only name a few classics I had to read in school that I actually liked, and that list includes "The Count of Monte Cristo", "Macbeth", Dante's "Inferno", and "Heart of Darkness". I like to discuss literature, but I usually feel excluded from literary discussion because those involved are discussing books that are too sad for me, or books that I simply don't like (e.g. "Wuthering Heights", which never really spoke to me).

When SJs read though, what are they paying the most attention to? If most of the thought process is already decided on what you think about something, you would not be debating and discussing with yourself or others whether you agree or disagree or changing your mind/assimilating would you? So how do you interact with it instead? Is it more a process of gathering information when you aren't sure about something, or confirming something you already believed?

I absorb the book as it comes. I'm not one of those people who tries to guess who the murderer is when reading a mystery; I just go along for the ride, and see what happens. I really get into the book's world - I see the scenery in my mind's eye, and I feel like I'm in a daze when I quit reading.
I like to discuss literature in part because I like to hear everyone's thoughts on the book as I'm compiling the data to create my own opinion. Then, in the group discussion, I think out loud, and absorb their ideas to help my opinion evolve.
Also, I try not to go into a book with preconceived notions. (This usually works, but it doesn't always.) I empty my mind, and let the book refill it.

I don't think the SJs are shallow. It seems to me more that there is a lot going on inside sometimes that they aren't even wishing to look at (because vulnerability is uncomfortable), so it is unlikely that others will ever get to see it.

 

[TaylorS]

I get along with SFJs just fine, but I often have trouble with STJs. This is probably because Te is my weakest judging function and a strong Te conflicts with my Fe very much, often leading to explosive arguments, usually with me telling the STJ he or she needs to take the perspective of others into account or something similar. God, I swear the steotyped bureaucrat that causes problems because of strict and absolutistic adherence to rules without regards to common sense and humaneness is an ISTJ.

SPs on the other hand I get along with extremely well, indeed by two closest friends are an ISFP guy and an ESFP gal.

 

[Saslou]

Hmmm, i do use the past for reference, you have to know where you have come from in order to know where you are going.

I do love reading, be it fiction, self help etc. I like people around me to want to better themselves, i'd be a hypocrite if i didn't do it myself.

And conflict is good sometimes, as long as it doesn't get taken out of context and become overly serious.

 

[Laurie]

I am curious about this because I wonder how NFJ would do with SJ. Seems the "ideal" problem could be partially satiated with an SJ.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I am curious about this because I wonder how NFJ would do with SJ. Seems the "ideal" problem could be partially satiated with an SJ.

How so?

 

[ajblaise]

Don't do it NFs! They'll slowly break down your spirit!

 

[Fidelia]

I've seen two examples (my own relationship and my parents'). Communication was/is a big problem for both. Maybe with self-awareness and willingness to adjust it could work. There are some great complementary traits to each other.

 

[the state i am in]

my infp mom and my istj dad do pretty well together, tho it wouldn't be my cup of tea. they relate thru Si some some Fi, but communication (for my tastes) would be very minimalistic. it works for them tho, i'm glad to see it.

as far as S types go my best experiences (not romantically but period) are with istjs and isfps.

 

[Bubbles]

SJs, you are a lovely bunch, and some of my closest friends have been SJs (ISFJ and ESFJ), but...I have yet to be attracted to an SJ. It's that lack of communication that other people are mentioning; one ISTJ boy I know was very interested in pursuing a relationship with me, and I felt very horrible for turning him down, but there were so many problems I could foresee even from little things like small talk. I'd make a joke, and it'd confuse him; I'd mention something lightly and he'd take it to heart; I'd comment on something generally and he'd only reply on specific details. Altogether, I felt like we had a very superficial understanding of each other.

Now, of course, I have met SJs whom are very pleasant, attractive, mentally-stimulating people, but they'll all been friends with me, and of the female sort. However, if they were men, would I date them? Hell no. It's just I don't feel drawn to their personalities on that level. On the other hand, my SJ mom and NF dad are happily married for almost 25 years, so what do I know?

 

[Giggly]

I have seen female NFs with male SJs but I have never seen female SJs with male NFs. I wonder how frequently that pairing exists in the wild.