[MBTI General] NFJs talk to me about your J

[Virtual ghost]

How can a person be J without having a Te as one of his/her main functions ?


I mean it is obvious that the Fe has somehing to do with Jness in NFJ but I don't get it. Especially since my Fe is pretty badly developed.
So I would like that someone explains to me the J aspect of NFJs.

Also I am wondering how high NFJs tend to score on Te on the function test that is going around ?

How does you J manifests itself in everyday life ?




I know the theory but I am interested how this works in practice.





The few SFJ we have here are free to join the show.

 

[21%]

Fe is connected with "behaving properly" -- and that in itself is pretty J, IMO...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Fe is connected with "behaving properly" -- and that in itself is pretty J, IMO...

What is so J about that ? (seriously I am not sure I get it)

 

[21%]

I think what extraverted judging functions (Te and Fe) have in common is their tendency to try to exert control over the environment. With Te, you judge things to be right based on tangible effects it has on the world. With Fe, you judge things to be right because they contribute to 'harmonious interactions/cohabitation'. To simplify this, with Fe, there is the 'right way' to be, to do things, because it's good for everyone. These rules, like Te rules, are universal, with tangible effects on the world. If you define J-ness as being neat, tidy, organized -- well, all Fe people would agree that being neat, tidy, organized is better for everyone, and they try to get everyone to be tidy and organized, because it has a positive effect on other people's lives.

Not sure if that answers the question or not. Maybe you could clarify your question a bit by defining what you mean by J-ness?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I think what extraverted judging functions (Te and Fe) have in common is their tendency to try to exert control over the environment. With Te, you judge things to be right based on tangible effects it has on the world. With Fe, you judge things to be right because they contribute to 'harmonious interactions/cohabitation'. To simplify this, with Fe, there is the 'right way' to be, to do things, because it's good for everyone. These rules, like Te rules, are universal, with tangible effects on the world. If you define J-ness as being neat, tidy, organized -- well, all Fe people would agree that being neat, tidy, organized is better for everyone, and they try to get everyone to be tidy and organized, because it has a positive effect on other people's lives.

Not sure if that answers the question or not. Maybe you could clarify your question a bit by defining what you mean by J-ness?

Yes, the problem is that I am obviously associating Jness (neat, tidy, organized) too closely with Te.


Ok but here is the question: How do you organize your life ? I mean by standard definition Fe simply serves as mechanism for accepting general social values / approaches.


In other words you understand that organizing is good but I am wondering how do you actually do it ? Especially if you are alone and you need to take care of yourself instead of someone else ? Do you use Te in that situations ?

 

[Glycerine]

Exert control over people matters: social pragmatism. Te is like that with impersonal variables/ criteria. For the record, my Te is horrid. With my Fe+Ni, I find organizing/categorizing THINGS to be a bore and get overwhelmed by it. People with Si+Fe or Fe+Si seem to have a much easier time with that, though. However, I am pretty good with coming up with people related solutions and planning for people.

 

[Unkindloving]

I can't answer this with all of the fun function talk right now, but i find my J kicks in when i'm excited over anything that leads to a better social circumstance.
I'll give examples:

• NYC Meetup made me need to know, almost obsessively, who was going and a rough estimate of events/times and wanted to make little games
• College acceptance made me plan out my schedule, definitely obsessively, for the next 2 years
• Karaoke / Dance class make me need to be on time to the point where i get anxious and leave 10 minutes earlier
• Etc

I get things done and move forward, but some things just fall by the wayside as they only affect me. I've needed to clean my room completely for about a year now and since it only affects me, i slack.
BlackCat and Mad Hatter have spoken with me on aim/skype and a common lines from them are "Such a J" and "Go make a list"

As for a functions test- in February i rocked out with a 43 Fe and a 20 Te. The only one Te beat out was Ti.
Now i've reminded myself that i should retake that test-icle.

 

[INTPness]

Hang out with an ESFJ or ENFJ for a few days. They're always trying to convince you that you should "do more of this" or "less of this" or "what you're doing isn't good for you" or "you'd be happier if you did this".

Like someone else already mentioned, they think that what is best for them or what is best for most people (or what makes them happiest) is what is best for you. Their intentions are good of course. They want you to be happy.

Just in the last week, I've had:

1. An ISFJ "nicely" tell me that I'd be happier with a mate/significant other. (Not now, but thanks for the advice).

2. An ESFJ who had never been to my apartment until that moment, telling me how to best arrange my furniture for my own happiness (Already happy, but thanks for the advice).

3. An ESFJ at work telling me that it would be better if I did things this way instead of that way. (I've already considered that way and determined it wasn't best for me, but thanks for the advice).

4. An ENFJ doing much of the same things.

Having Fe myself, I recognize it as something inside of me that wants things to run smoothly for people. Te wants the operation to run smoothly, but Fe wants people to be happy (and it has its own ideas of what would make them happy). For instance, I'm introverted and won't talk much around a group that I'm unfamiliar with. I'll just observe until I'm more comfortable. But, if someone in that group is being mistreated or if nobody is talking and people seem uncomfortable, I will jump in and "smooth" the situation out. I want people to feel comfortable. I don't want people feeling sad or out of place or rejected, etc. My overwhelming Ti can certainly override this, but it's there nonetheless. When it's given too much power, it becomes a bit "imposing", controlling, and coercive. "If you don't do it this way, then that's just wierd. Everyone does it this way and you need to also."

No. No I don't. But, thanks for the advice.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I can't answer this with all of the fun function talk right now, but i find my J kicks in when i'm excited over anything that leads to a better social circumstance.
I'll give examples:

• NYC Meetup made me need to know, almost obsessively, who was going and a rough estimate of events/times and wanted to make little games
• College acceptance made me plan out my schedule, definitely obsessively, for the next 2 years
• Karaoke / Dance class make me need to be on time to the point where i get anxious and leave 10 minutes earlier
• Etc

I get things done and move forward, but some things just fall by the wayside as they only affect me. I've needed to clean my room completely for about a year now and since it only affects me, i slack.
BlackCat and Mad Hatter have spoken with me on aim/skype and a common lines from them are "Such a J" and "Go make a list"

As for a functions test- in February i rocked out with a 43 Fe and a 20 Te. The only one Te beat out was Ti.
Now i've reminded myself that i should retake that test-icle.

So if there is no people around you, you are "finnished" ?
Since your Jness is quite dependant upon your environment ?

 

[Unkindloving]

So if there is no people around you, you are "finnished" ?
Since your Jness is quite dependant upon your environment ?

If there are no people, it drives me to assess and make a plan of action to acquire people or people-heavy situations. It could attribute to why ENFJ priorities seem so off at times.
If i have a stable social environment, i'll start being more of a J in all aspects of life. The simple fact is that social environments are fickle. An further example of right now/my room is this thought- "My friendships are stabilizing. At some point, we could all hang out in my room. I should clean my room. Now... how shall i go about cleaning my room."

I'm not sure if this applies to other ENFJs / if we have our noses rubbed into a social mess to tone it down.

 

[Vasilisa]

I can't speak to the functional analysis. But maybe I can relate about how I see my judgment preference coming through. Because I am thinking always about possible futures, my mind wants to create small scale contingency plans all the time, but in order not to have them be infinite I need something arranged and set first. Once something is set I can better orient myself to consider the possibilities.

 

[Lightyear]

Having Fe myself, I recognize it as something inside of me that wants things to run smoothly for people. Te wants the operation to run smoothly, but Fe wants people to be happy (and it has its own ideas of what would make them happy). For instance, I'm introverted and won't talk much around a group that I'm unfamiliar with. I'll just observe until I'm more comfortable. But, if someone in that group is being mistreated or if nobody is talking and people seem uncomfortable, I will jump in and "smooth" the situation out. I want people to feel comfortable. I don't want people feeling sad or out of place or rejected, etc. My overwhelming Ti can certainly override this, but it's there nonetheless. When it's given too much power, it becomes a bit "imposing", controlling, and coercive. "If you don't do it this way, then that's just wierd. Everyone does it this way and you need to also."

That.

Especially in a group setting I can see my Fe at work but since I am an introvert I tend to work behind the scenes. I will see the group from a bird's eye view and according to what my vision is for that group I will try to guide people in the direction of my vision. For example if someone is hurting I will try to comfort and encourage them, on the one hand because I sincerely care but on the other hand also because I see the group as a whole and if one person is hurting it will hinder the growth of the rest of the group. I will feel drawn to outsiders and try to make them feel comfortable and include them, compliment the strengths of group members but if necessary also tell someone off if they are being selfish and ego-driven and create disharmony in the group. If the Fe-user is healthy these actions are always for the greater good and the good of the group members, I personally would hate to intentionally use and hurt someone. Also a mature Fe-user will try to not come on too strong and give other people a choice instead of trying to push through his idea of what is best for the group.

I have also noticed that it really pisses me off when people lack what I consider "common decency", like not offering an old lady your seat, being mean to someone who is already down, in general refusing to help when it would take you almost nothing to make someone else's day. That is Fe at work, this function is like grease that keeps human interactions running smoothly by taking off the edges, so naturally Fe-users are annoyed if someone is lacking social graces or being selfish since it affects the whole group negatively.

 

[INTPness]

That.
this function is like grease that keeps human interactions running smoothly by taking off the edges, so naturally Fe-users are annoyed if someone is lacking social graces or being selfish since it affects the whole group negatively.

That's a really good way of putting it, IMO. It made me think of something that happened a few weeks back. At work, we had a lady coming from the corporate office to look at something in our facility. Apparently, my supervisor (ESTJ) has known her as an acquaintance for years, but hadn't seen in her a long time. When she walked into the building, he greeted her with, "Well, hello there ugly!"

My Fe was like

It takes a lot to make me angry, but that's just completely uncalled for in any group setting, especially a professional one. The lady ended up "finding" things wrong in her inspection and instead of letting the little things go, she nailed him for it - and I'm pretty sure that's why. She didn't look happy at all. But, his Te apparently doesn't see anything wrong with that. He thinks he's being funny and maybe even "being cool".

Fe says "no way". That is completely uncalled for and some sort of violation of how to treat others. If Fe was my primary or aux function, I probably would have gone up to her and said something nice in order to make her feel good or to let her know that he talks like that to a lot of people. I would have attempted to make her feel better in some way. Since it's my inferior function, I sometimes don't know when it's appropriate to intervene, so if I'm not fairly certain it will be welcomed (she's a stranger to me), then I'm more likely to stay to myself.

 

[Virtual ghost]

That's a really good way of putting it, IMO. It made me think of something that happened a few weeks back. At work, we had a lady coming from the corporate office to look at something in our facility. Apparently, my supervisor (ESTJ) has known her as an acquaintance for years, but hadn't seen in her a long time. When she walked into the building, he greeted her with, "Well, hello there ugly!"

My Fe was like

It takes a lot to make me angry, but that's just completely uncalled for in any group setting, especially a professional one. The lady ended up "finding" things wrong in her inspection and instead of letting the little things go, she nailed him for it - and I'm pretty sure that's why. She didn't look happy at all. But, his Te apparently doesn't see anything wrong with that. He thinks he's being funny and maybe even "being cool".

Fe says "no way". That is completely uncalled for and some sort of violation of how to treat others. If Fe was my primary or aux function, I probably would have gone up to her and said something nice in order to make her feel good or to let her know that he talks like that to a lot of people. I would have attempted to make her feel better in some way. Since it's my inferior function, I sometimes don't know when it's appropriate to intervene, so if I'm not fairly certain it will be welcomed (she's a stranger to me), then I'm more likely to stay to myself.

Well this explains quite well why INTPs/Fe people have called me out for being rude more than once.

 

[cascadeco]

I just posted this elsewhere but I think it's applicable to your inquiry into how NFJ / specifically Fe is 'J'-like. I think my example provides an Fe-analogy to Te. Keep in mind it's just one element. I'm sure there are many others.

-->... at least for myself.. I'm one who has a pretty solid internal definition of all of my relationships: For example, 'just friends', 'work person', or 'romantic interest' could be some. I basically need that solidity so I know how to interact with the person. Once I've decided the category, I am more comfortable knowing how to operate or what the relationship is about. I'm pretty uncomfortable with nebulous relationships and just 'seeing what happens' - thus I create the definition in my head pretty early on.

Being 'on the same page' is exceedingly important to me, when it comes to relationships; I can become stressed when I think or realize that I am seeing the relationship in a different light than the other person is. If an imbalance occurs, I either need to incorporate new 'data'/info, and adjust the 'category'/definition of the relationship accordingly in my mind, or I might have to let it go if I can't do that.

I like closure, too. Having loose ends tied and making sure there's clarity and everything's accounted for.

In other words you understand that organizing is good but I am wondering how do you actually do it ? Especially if you are alone and you need to take care of yourself instead of someone else ? Do you use Te in that situations ?

I don't know? I'm of the opinion that every type can and will utilize every function in certain parts of their life. Functions can be situational as well - a person with zero Te would be pretty disfunctional in some ways, in life, just as a person with zero Fe or zero Si would have difficulty navigating certain situations effectively.

Anyway, I live alone.. as to how I organize, I just have a place for things. I don't like a mess, I like having some semblance of order. Another example - I was taught when I was young to keep a budget and keep track of expenses. I guess because I'm 'J' that wasn't totally annoying for me to do, so I took it on and still do it -- I don't like having unknowns so I consequently keep track of stuff like that, so that I'm completely aware of where my money is going and what maneuvering room I might have.

 

[Charmed Justice]

I just posted this elsewhere but I think it's applicable to your inquiry into how NFJ / specifically Fe is 'J'-like. I think my example provides an Fe-analogy to Te. Keep in mind it's just one element. I'm sure there are many others.

-->... at least for myself.. I'm one who has a pretty solid internal definition of all of my relationships: For example, 'just friends', 'work person', or 'romantic interest' could be some. I basically need that solidity so I know how to interact with the person. Once I've decided the category, I am more comfortable knowing how to operate or what the relationship is about. I'm pretty uncomfortable with nebulous relationships and just 'seeing what happens' - thus I create the definition in my head pretty early on.

Being 'on the same page' is exceedingly important to me, when it comes to relationships; I can become stressed when I think or realize that I am seeing the relationship in a different light than the other person is. If an imbalance occurs, I either need to incorporate new 'data'/info, and adjust the 'category'/definition of the relationship accordingly in my mind, or I might have to let it go if I can't do that.

I like closure, too. Having loose ends tied and making sure there's clarity and everything's accounted for.

This explanation resonates. I too must be able to define and categorize my relationships with people in order to understand how I'm to interact with them. Tiers of relationship are necessary for me and the definitions are required for me to navigate my social sphere. I have my friends, and then I have my best friends. I need to be able to distinguish between the two so that I know how to distribute myself. One of the reasons I never really dated casually was because I couldn't understand how to fit overt romantic gestures and interest into a relationship that wasn't clearly defined as such. Organizing relationships is central.

On the other hand, I'm not as proficient in organizing material things. I keep to a calendar with work and organized activities, but aside from that, I'm essentially unscheduled, which is how I prefer it. I follow through with the plans I make unless for some reason I absolutely cannot.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So how would you rate your skill for strategizing ?

 

[Omission1234]

i dont know if this makes sense, but my my J usually emerges as judging myself very critically. I sometimes have little pet peeves like most people but say someone really randomly offends me or goes against something i really believe in and are being ignorant about it, I myself will equally be ignorant and judgemental towards them and fly off the handle. this is extremely rare.... like seriously im 21 and in all 21 years ive only done this twice soo really rare most times i never judge others at all but ohhh im my own worst enemy i feel like the undeground man in notes from the underground by dostoevsky... seriously mental. but yeah haha mostly im my worst bully and critic.

 

[skylights]

this is a very interesting conversation to me because i have a relatively strong (for a tert at least) amount of Te but am a P... i am very future-oriented and a planner / streamliner by nature, and i mainly attribute that to Ne-Te looping, but it's rather different than the consistent future awareness and contingency planning of Js.

i usually think of J correlating with consistency of behavior, intention of behavior to impact the external world, and time-awareness, with the difference between TJs and FJs being that TJs are system-efficiency oriented and FJs are social-efficiency oriented.

anyway... i will return to lurking/learning now

 

[Sunny Ghost]

compare an ENFP to an ENFJ. no, it's not J in the same Te way... however, just compare these two types in particular.

you'll see that ENFP's lean closer to the ESFP. they love people just the same as FJ's, but have more of a sporadic-ness and a need to express oneself (Fi).

with ENFJ's, they are a bit more like ESFJ's, in that they are more group oriented, and less self oriented. (i don't mean to imply they lack understanding of theirself.) however, i've heard Fe's say that they don't equate their own emotions as part of their identity. they still feel their emotions strongly, but it's as though they are a bit more objective towards their own emotions, and yet have a willingness to help and serve towards other's emotions. and in that respect, is more of a J.