[NF] NF Comedians

[2XtremeENFP]

Originally Posted by Avis
Doesn't anybody know any INFP around, or at least an INF_?
I know that entertainment isn't exactly made for introverts - but there has to be at least someone. Maybe a comedic writer?

Adam Sandler = INFP

 

[onemoretime]

Yeah, hate to say it, but ENFP is probably the least likely to be a successful comedian, just because they're too passionate about life. It's like the old joke: "Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A: That's not funny!" It's weird, though, because like mentioned before, INFPs can be hilarious.

Comedy requires detachment from the subject matter, either in observation (Ti-style) or in presentation (Fi-style).

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

... but ENFP is probably the least likely to be a successful comedian ...

This doesn't make sense. The 7w6 enneagram type is full of ExxP comedians.

 

[onemoretime]

Being "funny" and being a comedian are not necessarily the same thing

 

[OrangeAppled]

Adam Sandler = INFP

He's sooo SP, probably ISFP.

Yeah, hate to say it, but ENFP is probably the least likely to be a successful comedian, just because they're too passionate about life. It's like the old joke: "Q: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? A: That's not funny!" It's weird, though, because like mentioned before, INFPs can be hilarious.

Comedy requires detachment from the subject matter, either in observation (Ti-style) or in presentation (Fi-style).

There's quite a few very funny ENFP comedians listed in this thread. ENFPs are natural performers and have that wackiness associated with Ne. I can't see why they'd be least likely. I'd guess ISFJ to be an unlikely comedian, not that they are never funny though.

 

[onemoretime]

People often assume performers are extroverts. That's not always the case

 

[OrangeAppled]

People often assume performers are extroverts. That's not always the case

What does that have to do with ENFPs not being good comedians?

 

[onemoretime]

What does that have to do with ENFPs not being good comedians?

ENFPs care too much. They can't detach themselves from the things that are poignant enough to be wildly hilarious. Take Dave Chappelle, for example. INFP to the bone. Is about as funny about racism as anyone... because he's an introvert and can detach from the fact that it hurts him so damn much. An ENFP would be out in the streets doing something about it, not cracking jokes.

Te wanting to fix things vs. Si noticing patterns.

 

[OrangeAppled]

ENFPs care too much. They can't detach themselves from the things that are poignant enough to be wildly hilarious. Take Dave Chappelle, for example. INFP to the bone. Is about as funny about racism as anyone... because he's an introvert and can detach from the fact that it hurts him so damn much. An ENFP would be out in the streets doing something about it, not cracking jokes.

Te wanting to fix things vs. Si noticing patterns.

You can also crack jokes about things you don't care about passionately.
I think you're over-analyzing functions in this case....

 

[onemoretime]

You can also crack jokes about things you don't care about passionately.
I think you're over-analyzing functions in this case....

However, to be a successful comedian, and not just funny, it has to resonate with a large portion of the crowd. Therefore, you have to care about it, or it just won't seem genuine.

ENFPs are usually not funny about the things they are genuine about. INFPs can be.

 

[ergophobe]

Robin Williams, Martin Short, Carol Burnett....just a few ENFP comedians that are mentioned most often. They seem to be able to detach just fine and aren't all feminists, running around supporting causes but with poor humor.

ENFP Profile

 

[onemoretime]

Robin Williams, Martin Short, Carol Burnett....just a few ENFP comedians that are mentioned most often. They seem to be able to detach just fine and aren't all feminists, running around supporting causes but with poor humor.

ENFP Profile

Like I said, they're funny, but they're not comedians as we typically associate it in the English-speaking world. With the exception of Williams, they're more funny in their other performances than in their words and observations. They're comic performers, not comedians (which is why the word comic is often used to tie the two concepts together).

Robin Williams is much more of a T than people give him credit for, and his heartfelt stuff is usually Fe-heavy. I think there's just this perception that intuitive thinkers are cold, heartless, sarcastic robots, so anyone who shows a shred of human dignity, or gave a damn about another person or the way injustice in the world harms others is automatically an intuitive feeler.

 

[ergophobe]

Like I said, they're funny, but they're not comedians as we typically associate it in the English-speaking world. With the exception of Williams, they're more funny in their other performances than in their words and observations. They're comic performers, not comedians (which is why the word comic is often used to tie the two concepts together).

Carol Burnett is not a comedian???? She's famous for her sketch comedy and her impressions of people and - I would say that's pretty squarely comedian territory. Her words and observations are not funny? Perhaps this is more about what you may or may not find funny. I'm not sure if there's a larger consensus in the English-speaking world (what other world is being considered here?). What is a typical comedian, in your view? Where do you find this definition?

A comic actor could be one who does comedic scenes and have good comedic timing but doesn't write a lot of this material himself/herself. All of these people write their own comedy material, have incredible comedic insight and observation on the world they inhabit and are incredibly spontaneous...these are comedians, not just comic actors. Carol Burnett created so many original characters that are based entirely on observations that make good comedians....finding the hilarious in the ordinary.

Robin Williams is much more of a T than people give him credit for, and his heartfelt stuff is usually Fe-heavy. I think there's just this perception that intuitive thinkers are cold, heartless, sarcastic robots, so anyone who shows a shred of human dignity, or gave a damn about another person or the way injustice in the world harms others is automatically an intuitive feeler.

Actually these are stereotypes you bring in. Using heartfelt stuff is feeler associated and being able to do comedy with critical/political commentary is more T? What makes Robin Williams more of a T? Why couldn't he be an ENFP? ENFPs can have well-developed Fe, can't they, especially if they're going to make it big in a people-centered profession? Also, I don't think he's that Fe bright If you've seen him perform on any live talk shows, you'll notice he's actually terrible at stopping and listening to the host or knowing when he should just tone it down. He just does his thing....

The last part is a stereotype that isn't adhered to here or on threads I've seen discussing comedians before. Jim Carey is often quoted as being ENTP and he's hilarious - both as a comic performer and a comedian. I don't think anyone would accuse him or George Carlin of being heartless. They're just funny in a different way. They have different styles of comedy.

You seem to be adhering, particularly in your remarks on ENFPs here, to more of these stereotypes that you bemoan than others....

 

[onemoretime]

Carol Burnett is not a comedian???? Her words and observations are not funny? Perhaps this is more about what you may or may not find funny. I'm not sure if there's a larger consensus in the English-speaking world (what other world is being considered here?).

Why do you assume she's an NF? She sounds pretty NT-ish in interviews. Very matter-of-fact about her upbringing, in particular.

She's funny in her performances, that's why her show was so successful. The words and observations aren't standing on their own, they're part of a funny character. That's the distinction.

English-speaking non-performance comedy is usually centered around observation, with some word play thrown into the mix.

Actually these are stereotypes you bring in. Using heartfelt stuff is feeler associated and being able to do comedy with critical/political commentary is more T?

That was a reference from earlier in the thread, where someone was pointing out how his more dramatic turns were something only an NF could do.

What makes Robin Williams more of a T? Why couldn't he be an ENFP? ENFPs can have well-developed Fe, can't they, especially if they're going to make it big in a people-centered profession?

What makes him more of a T? Word play and rapid-fire delivery, along with the things he jokes about in his stand-up.

Let's also not forget that you don't need a well-developed Fe to make it in show business. How many insufferable prima donna actors have we heard of in our time?

Also, I don't think he's that Fe bright If you've seen him perform on any live talk shows, you'll notice he's actually terrible at stopping and listening to the host or knowing when he should just tone it down. He just does his thing....

Any Ne-dominant will do that if you give them the opportunity. Williams certainly is that, no question, maybe more so than 90% of Ne-doms.

The last part is a stereotype that isn't adhered to here or on threads I've seen discussing comedians before. Jim Carey is often quoted as being ENTP and he's hilarious - both as a comic performer and a comedian. I don't think anyone would accuse him or George Carlin of being heartless. They're just funny in a different way. They have different styles of comedy.

You've never noticed that subtext? Really? I'm actually very surprised about that - it's pretty pervasive. And I personally would type Carrey as an INFP.

You seem to be adhering, particularly in your remarks on ENFPs here, to more of these stereotypes that you bemoan than others....

Nope, just pointing out trends, thank you much. Not "bemoaning" anything.

 

[ergophobe]

Why do you assume she's an NF? She sounds pretty NT-ish in interviews. Very matter-of-fact about her upbringing, in particular.

I didn't assume anything. She's typed as such on the majority of MBTI sites -- typelogic, Personality Desk etc etc...

She's funny in her performances, that's why her show was so successful. The words and observations aren't standing on their own, they're part of a funny character. That's the distinction.

English-speaking non-performance comedy is usually centered around observation, with some word play thrown into the mix.

So, true comedians, in your view, should not have any aspect of performance mixed in with their comedy? They should only be sharing deadpan impressions/observations of the world? This sounds like a very narrow definition of what a comedian is. It doesn't hold. Comedians are connected more to original material rather than the very particular style you mention above. Where is this distinction made outside of your saying so?

That was a reference from earlier in the thread, where someone was pointing out how his more dramatic turns were something only an NF could do.

Someone does not equal everyone supporting the stereotype. How are dramatic turns equivalent to pointing to NFs being the only ones capable of compassion and NTs being heartless robots? Still not seeing that connection you made all on your own.

What makes him more of a T? Word play and rapid-fire delivery, along with the things he jokes about in his stand-up.

Why are word play and rapid-fire delivery a T preference or skill? So, NFs aren't associated with being quick-witted or able to partake in word-play? Nothing to back that up. What are the 'T' things he jokes about in his stand-up?

Let's also not forget that you don't need a well-developed Fe to make it in show business. How many insufferable prima donna actors have we heard of in our time?

Prima donnas and comedians have different ways of 'making it'. As a comedian, it's pretty hard to get a break and I would still contend that some amount of Fe is necessary. Its not looks that are helping comedians make it

Any Ne-dominant will do that if you give them the opportunity. Williams certainly is that, no question, maybe more so than 90% of Ne-doms.

He is an Ne dom but Fe, by definition, is listening to and taking into account the needs of others around you. Not paying any attention to that at all points to low Fe. Ne is about making connections - a more tenuous link to his behavior.

You've never noticed that subtext? Really? I'm actually very surprised about that - it's pretty pervasive. And I personally would type Carrey as an INFP.

He's typed most often, across the board on MBTI sites, as an ENTP or ENTJ.

Nope, just pointing out trends, thank you much. Not "bemoaning" anything.

Of course, my apologies for assuming that there was any complaint in the above. Does that make you of a comedian rather than comic with your ability to detach?

 

[onemoretime]

I didn't assume anything. She's typed as such on the majority of MBTI sites -- typelogic, Personality Desk etc etc...

They may not be right. Of course, there could be far more than 16 variations in human personality, so none of this is cut in stone.

So, true comedians, in your view, should not have any aspect of performance mixed in with their comedy? They should only be sharing deadpan impressions/observations of the world? This sounds like a very narrow definition of what a comedian is. It doesn't hold. Comedians are connected more to original material rather than the very particular style you mention above. Where is this distinction made outside of your saying so?

Sorry, I'm just going to have to claim a sort of Lemon test here - "you know it when you see it". A comedian's funny for the sake of being funny. A comic performer is funny in order to tell a story or convey a broader sense of entertainment. Both often involve the use of original material.

This has been a fairly common distinction over the last 30 years, where the two genres have drifted apart from their common origins (vaudeville, of course)

Someone does not equal everyone supporting the stereotype. How are dramatic turns equivalent to pointing to NFs being the only ones capable of compassion and NTs being heartless robots? Still not seeing that connection you made all on your own.

This is a common subtext that runs throughout conversations here, and was a comment made earlier in the thread ("Williams' dramatic roles were so ENFP"). That's only proof if you believe that ENTPs aren't capable of generating the gravitas necessary for a hard dramatic role.

Why are word play and rapid-fire delivery a T preference or skill? So, NFs aren't associated with being quick-witted or able to partake in word-play? Nothing to back that up. What are the 'T' things he jokes about in his stand-up?

His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.

Prima donnas and comedians have different ways of 'making it'. As a comedian, it's pretty hard to get a break and I would still contend that some amount of Fe is necessary. Its not looks that are helping comedians make it

Which is why it may not be the realm for extroverts without Fe in their base functions.

He is an Ne dom but Fe, by definition, is listening to and taking into account the needs of others around you. Not paying any attention to that at all points to low Fe. Ne is about making connections - a more tenuous link to his behavior.

Yeah - he might have just never developed his tertiary. It happens.

He's typed most often, across the board on MBTI sites, as an ENTP or ENTJ.

It can be hard to differentiate between someone's stage persona and their actual personality.

Of course, my apologies for assuming that there was any complaint in the above. Does that make you of a comedian rather than comic with your ability to detach?

No, it just makes me an NT.

 

[ergophobe]

Sorry, I'm just going to have to claim a sort of Lemon test here - "you know it when you see it". A comedian's funny for the sake of being funny. A comic performer is funny in order to tell a story or convey a broader sense of entertainment. Both often involve the use of original material.

Yeah that's really not a very good distinction, is it? Both are funny for the sake of being funny - if you're pointing to different styles, that may be different but the above does not present a real distinction. Who is a real comedian. Doesn't this real comedian also tell stories?

This has been a fairly common distinction over the last 30 years, where the two genres have drifted apart from their common origins (vaudeville, of course)

If it's such a common distinction that has been around for a while, one would think we'd have a better understanding of what makes them different. A real distinction and one that can be backed up by real examples. I'd like to understand this distinction better but don't see it yet with the descriptions you've provided.

His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.

So now, ENFPs are incapable of detaching from their emotions even for professional purposes (comedy would be a professional setting for comedians) and they're not logical or can't use logic for comedy? Logic is not a T monopoly even if it comes easier to Ts in some areas. Comedy involves a different type of logic -- one that centers on people and the weird things people do. Why would this essentially human view of the world be a T specialty or monopoly? It's not.

It comes down to one's sense of humor - that's not type or temperament specific. The types may have a different style of presenting humor but it doesn't take away from any type's ability to be successful at comedy...that's a stretch, particularly when attached to a type that is an Ne dom (weird connections, human angles). Really?

Which is why it may not be the realm for extroverts without Fe in their base functions.

More conjecture based on tenuous connections.

 

[BlueScreen]

His punchlines come from things that logically follow, even if they're weird. NF humor is more personal - it's funny because it's so fucked up. Chappelle's funny because of the things he's seen and gone through. Sandler's funny because you're not "supposed" to be that mad, but everyone does get that mad, so we laugh at the breaking of the social taboo.

As an NF, I accidentally solved a whole heap of logical stuff and got a few degrees. I'm not sure if I would make a logical connection in a joke though. It seems a little difficult.

 

[Fecal McAngry]

Ellen ENFP

She extroverts Se, not Ne.

 

[Fecal McAngry]

Adam Sandler = INFP

No, he extroverts Se.