Ne and Ni

[skylights]

^ i think it's kind of true-ish, but it makes Ne sound like a preschool activity while Ni sounds like something godly.

anyway. guys. Ne is not random. it draws off the present stimuli in your environment. this includes all abstractions and concepts, therefore it may seem unrelated to the "issue at hand", but you can clearly trace the path back to where the concept has come from because it will be in your past, your future, or something in the present that has cued you to the idea. like all extraverted functions, Ne draws from the environment outside your head. it may also seem random because you will juxtapose ideas from the "issue at hand" to other ideas you have been cued to by factors in the environment, and synthesize new ideas from there. right now, IRL, there's a red book on the table in front of me, and the fireplace beyond that. the book plus fireplace makes me think of burning books, which makes me think of dumb things to burn, which makes me think of sati (an ancient indian practice of a wife jumping (or being pushed) into her husband's funeral pyre.) so sati, random, right? except, as you can see, it's totally not at all. everything connects back.

i will let the Ni doms share Ni specifics, because i imagine i would use wording unfamiliar to them (just as the state i'm in's "cut and paste" would never be something i would use to describe Ne...)

((ps - i usually find Ni jokes not funny, that might be a good litmus test ))

 

[uumlau]

Here are a few things that I've found help distinguish Ni and Ne in a practical sense.

Ne strives to think outside the box. Ni instead tries out lots of different boxes.

Ne is really good at figuring out innovative ways to achieve a goal. Ni instead figures out that the goal isn't the real goal, then finds an easy path to the new goal.

Ne, being extroverted (i.e., objective), tends to think in terms of the universe being made of objects. Ni thinks in terms of the universe being made of processes.

Consider the typical description of a movie: that it's a bunch of static images that are flashed rapidly in sequence so as to produce the illusion of motion. To Ni, the static images are the illusion, they reflect nothing real that you would see in the universe, e.g., a drop of water in the middle of splashing on the ground, perfectly still. The static images are the illusion, that if you flash them rapidly in sequence, create an image of reality.

Not that it is impossible for either Ne or Ni to not think of objects or not think of processes. Rather, it is the Ni tendency to aim perception at processes in particular, with objects as secondary. Ne is more interested in universal abstractions, and thus tends to favor more "static" models that tend to ignore processes. So when understanding the current state of a system is more important, Ne will appear to be more insightful, and when understanding the evolution of a system is more important, Ni will appear to be more insightful. If both are important, Ne and Ni types can gain a lot of mutual insight by sharing perspectives.

 

[the state i am in]

huh, that was intended to be a minute, single feature of identifying p vs j responding styles.

i'm just saying p users are more likely to find quotes and then respond to them individually whereas j users are more likely to respond without that stage in sharing context. an entp girl told me when i needed help writing papers to just pull out important quotations and connect them and let the picture build itself. my tendency would be to write the paper and then find sources (because my process to build the context i want often doesn't have the same kind of natural traces and tangible sense of exploration). this could also be more specifically related to Ne-Ti vs Ni-Fe, but it seems relevant in the Ne dom thread (with onemoretime, q:re us, and orobas all demonstrating the pattern). and it at least seems to fit with the notion of extraverted perception more generally.

 

[Resonance]

How much of this is Ne and how much of it is ADHD?

http://www.scatteredminds.com/ch2.htm

 

[Ginkgo]

How much of this is Ne and how much of it is ADHD?

http://www.scatteredminds.com/ch2.htm

May overlap, may not. Just depends on the person. ADD may overlap with other functions as well.

The central issue is that Ne is a cognitive function and ADD is a learning disorder. Yes, they bare similarities. But ADD also bares similarities with introverted functions, being detached from what is going on outside yourself and concerned with your own little mental business. Bares similarities with extraverted functions as well, and the behaviors normally associated.

Also, I have severe adult ADD. Holy shit.

 

[Resonance]

May overlap, may not. Just depends on the person. ADD may overlap with other functions as well.

The central issue is that Ne is a cognitive function and ADD is a learning disorder. Yes, they bare similarities. But ADD also bares similarities with introverted functions, being detached from what is going on outside yourself and concerned with your own little mental business. Bares similarities with extraverted functions as well, and the behaviors normally associated.

Also, I have severe adult ADD. Holy shit.

Happy birthday.

 

[jixmixfix]

I know a girl who is an ENTP and she told me she needs to take medications for ADHD. I would of told though that she wasn't ADHD she was just an entp but then she would of thought I was some kind of weirdo.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I'm still getting my head around the differences between Ni and Ne, but it seems that a major difference would be how each was energized. Just like any introverted / extraverted function, introversion gets its energy from introspection and reflection. Extraversion gets its energy from interacting with others.

Let me tell you how my dominant Ne feels to me: I live for finding new, interesting, cool ideas/people/things. This is what really energizes me. I completely love finding a new and interesting person who turns me on to something new and fascinating. This is what gives me energy. And, when I'm energized like this, all I want to do is go out and find more inspiring ideas/people/things. Also, I will ruminate on the connections and patterns I see. It seems like everything is perceive is part of a greater cosmic pattern. My ability to see the connections and patterns out there is so profound it's almost painful. I can't shut it off.

Ni in contrast: My best understanding of Ni (please correct me Ni users if I've got this wrong) is that while Ni sees the connections and the possibilities, too, Ni is more about ruminating on these privately. What energizes Ni is this ruminative process.

So my question to the OPer is which energizes you more? Or maybe it's easier for you to identify which drains your energy more? Interaction with others or internal rumination. Of course, you'll do both, but one is more energizing for you than the other.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I know a girl who is an ENTP and she told me she needs to take medications for ADHD. I would of told though that she wasn't ADHD she was just an entp but then she would of thought I was some kind of weirdo.

I actually agree with this. Most of my Ne-dom friends and family have had people ask them if they have ADHD at some point, or had teachers try to get them on meds.

My nephew is 3 and I think he is an ENTP in training just because everything he does is so Ne. My dad watched him one weekend, went into his bedroom to check on him, and discovered that Isaiah had taken apart his lamp. lol. When he saw my dad he looked up and said, "It just happened!" with this surprised look on his face. He's insanely curious about everything, explores it all on his own, comes up with his own little theories on why things are they way they are. Luckily his dad is an ENTP so his response is just "yeah.... he's me at that age...." And they encourage his explorations. I'll be curious to see how he turns out later.

 

[jixmixfix]

I actually agree with this. Most of my Ne-dom friends and family have had people ask them if they have ADHD at some point, or had teachers try to get them on meds.

My nephew is 3 and I think he is an ENTP in training just because everything he does is so Ne. My dad watched him one weekend, went into his bedroom to check on him, and discovered that Isaiah had taken apart his lamp. lol. When he saw my dad he looked up and said, "It just happened!" with this surprised look on his face. He's insanely curious about everything, explores it all on his own, comes up with his own little theories on why things are they way they are. Luckily his dad is an ENTP so his response is just "yeah.... he's me at that age...." And they encourage his explorations. I'll be curious to see how he turns out later.

He could be any XXTP it seems, he sounds like he has strong Ti to me. I remember always playing with lego and video games as a kid. I always wanted those mini toy battery cars you drive around but never got one.

 

[Resonance]

I know a girl who is an ENTP and she told me she needs to take medications for ADHD. I would of told though that she wasn't ADHD she was just an entp but then she would of thought I was some kind of weirdo.

No, ADD is a real affliction. And I'm sure not all ENTPs have it. You can basically compare the socionics ILE to the MBTI ENTP to get an idea of the difference.

I actually agree with this. Most of my Ne-dom friends and family have had people ask them if they have ADHD at some point, or had teachers try to get them on meds.

My nephew is 3 and I think he is an ENTP in training just because everything he does is so Ne. My dad watched him one weekend, went into his bedroom to check on him, and discovered that Isaiah had taken apart his lamp. lol. When he saw my dad he looked up and said, "It just happened!" with this surprised look on his face. He's insanely curious about everything, explores it all on his own, comes up with his own little theories on why things are they way they are. Luckily his dad is an ENTP so his response is just "yeah.... he's me at that age...." And they encourage his explorations. I'll be curious to see how he turns out later.

lol, it's pretty much impossible to type a child before they start forming their own identities (teenagehood). Their activities are much more shaped by their environment and the interactions they get with their parents than by personality at that age.

 

[jixmixfix]

No, ADD is a real affliction. And I'm sure not all ENTPs have it. You can basically compare the socionics ILE to the MBTI ENTP to get an idea of the difference.

lol, it's pretty much impossible to type a child before they start forming their own identities (teenagehood). Their activities are much more shaped by their environment and the interactions they get with their parents than by personality at that age.

ADD and ADHD medications are over prescribed especially to children and teenagers. Children begin to develop their personality at a very young age at about 3 or 4 y/o so yes you can type a child maybe not all out in full MBTI fashion, but you can get an idea whether they are introverted or extroverted etc.

 

[Resonance]

ADD and ADHD medications are over prescribed especially to children and teenagers.

I disagree, they help a lot even in conjunction with other treatments. but I do think they should be used as a supplement to environmental treatment, not a substitute.

Children begin to develop their personality at a very young age at about 3 or 4 y/o so yes you can type a child maybe not all out in full MBTI fashion, but you can get an idea whether they are introverted or extroverted etc.

yeh, you're right that some temperament traits are pretty obvious from early on, but for example they have very little capacity for abstract reasoning until age 7 or 8 usually, and that keeps developing well into teenagehood. :s

 

[sculpting]

Let me try this...for Ne which links to Si...

On the surface there are hops from subject 1 to subject 2 with no seeming connectivity, very quickly. It seems disjointed and in the moment. I marked these topics as Ne1, Ne2, Ne3, and Ne4.

As an example I might start talking about type expression at work (Ne1), suddenly mention type and communication (Ne2), then start telling a story about my ex-husband (Ne3), and then start talking about buying a new car (Ne4)

Underneath the Ne hops are actually riding along an Si framework of pre-established facts/ideas/judgment values/observations-universal truths already known and understood. The Si serves as a foundation. For Ne doms this would be TiSi or FiSi, however you would also see formation of TeSi and FeSi foundations as well.

Wen young the Si is fairly il defined, but as we age, it becomes much more resolved and strongly adhered to. Thus even as we hop from subject to subject externally, we strongly adhere to our internal Si known truths.

Part of Ne effective communication may require that the two parties share fairly similar Si frameworks. Since Si is described as part of the collective unconsciousness, if two people use the same judging function, then it seems many of their Si rules may be fairly similar.

Thus communication between two Ne-Si users will be back and forth calibration to allow for subtle modifications/realignments of the Si database via exchange of Ne possibilities.

 

[Anew Leaf]

No, ADD is a real affliction. And I'm sure not all ENTPs have it. You can basically compare the socionics ILE to the MBTI ENTP to get an idea of the difference.

lol, it's pretty much impossible to type a child before they start forming their own identities (teenagehood). Their activities are much more shaped by their environment and the interactions they get with their parents than by personality at that age.

Looking back at how I was when I was younger (2-8), I was definitely an INFP in training.

And JMF - I gotcha! I could see that as being Ti. Thanks for the input!

 

[Lady_X]

No, ADD is a real affliction. And I'm sure not all ENTPs have it. You can basically compare the socionics ILE to the MBTI ENTP to get an idea of the difference.

lol, it's pretty much impossible to type a child before they start forming their own identities (teenagehood). Their activities are much more shaped by their environment and the interactions they get with their parents than by personality at that age.

totally disagree with ya there...some are freakin obvious from early on.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Ne: Sex
Ni: Masturbation

 

[darude11]

Ne watches forward for all of the possibilities how could the concrete situation end (He can ask me about holidays, He can spill his coffee, She can run into office, The radio will now play this or that song etc.)

Ni chooses ONE of those possibilities (He will now spill his coffee, because she will run into office, because she heard in the radio something about the place, where he was on vacation, knowing it, because I [Ni user] have heard it in the radio too.).

Well, but I have never met Ni, so let's assume that this is pure theory of readed content from internet.

 

[onemoretime]

Ne: Why?
Ni: Why.

 

[Lady_X]

^^ ha love that!