[ISTP] My current issue with my ISTP friend

[Poki]

He claims to be a lot of things. He says that he's an awful person. In his exact words: um ya; im a dick- im very cynical and look out for numero uno- ethical egoist and objectivist - i am very distrustful and hate ppl before i like them; i dont think trusting should be the status quo...im misogynistic, womanizing, racist, intolerant, full of myself, never wrong, manipulative, and pretty much a "bad" person...

You know why people say this right? If you accept this it gives them permission to continue to be this way. This person has no desire to change or challenge himself. I know you see it in him, but he doesnt want to change. He has yet to find a reason to want to change. He really needs to be dropped flat on his face a couple of times when he does that crap.

 

[StephMC]

You know why people say this right? If you accept this it gives them permission to continue to be this way. This person has no desire to change or challenge himself. I know you see it in him, but he doesnt want to change. He has yet to find a reason to want to change. He really needs to be dropped flat on his face a couple of times when he does that crap.

Well said!

Giggidy.





Just kidding....




...but seriously

Hahah... I'm glad someone seems to find it amusing. My guy friends don't find it so amusing. I've tried to cure myself for years. They joke that they're going to need to replace their kidneys from me getting rambunctious and punching so much. ... I just keep insisting it's my way of showing "affection."

 

[phoenity]

well, fwiw, i'm sorry for you. it is an emotional roller coaster to say the least. dealing with the self-centered ones can be like dealing with two separate people imo (maybe this is true of all self-centered types?). on the one hand you feel and know the feelings they have for you exist somewhere deep within, and you can love who they really are. but they have the ability to deny/ignore/repress those feelings if they deem it necessary for themselves, or from a logical standpoint. i envy that ability sometimes. there seems to be a bit of a misbalance in the emotional maturity department between you two, or maybe just in the what-you-want-out-of-life-right-now department.

what doesn't kill us..........lemme know when the first meeting is........

You know us inside and out.

When I was younger I did things like this. Feelings were always hard for me to deal with, and intense feelings about major life changes were even more overwhelming.

They made my head spin so fast I couldn't think straight. So I did what made sense at the time - I shut them off completely, which caused me to become a cold, selfish bastard, just like this guy.

When I got overwhelmed by things, I always had to push everyone away so I could clear my head, and deal with things only from a logical standpoint. When I turned into a robot like this, I didn't have any use or time for friends or family, unless they could help me in some practical way.

I'm not excusing what your friend is doing, and I'm very sorry that he is doing this to you. You seem like a sweetheart and he should feel lucky as hell to have you as a friend. But he lives in the moment, and he's not considering the effect his actions have on your long-term relationship, because he doesn't see himself maintaining one with you. He's torn between two women, and starting off to college just puts him over the top, so he has to focus on one priority at a time.

At a later time, something might make him think of you, and he might reflect on how he left things, and he might feel pretty shitty about it, and it just might be too late to make amends, and then he'll feel really shitty, and you'll stick to him forever.

I've been in those shoes and I've learned things like this the hard way.



You have every right to feel however you want about your friend. Just realize he is very emotionally immature compared to you. He's not doing these things because he is an asshole at heart, he just doesn't know how else to handle it.

It's really unfortunate that we can justify being this way, because at some point, and it never fails to happen, we always end up hurting ourselves and the people we love. I can deal with hurting myself because it was my fault, so I learn and grow from it. But hurting other people, who didn't deserve to be treated that way and only wanted to love me, is what really kills me and hits hard when I finally realize what I've done.

I am grateful for the people in my life, who've been subjected to my words and actions, yet still love me unconditionally, as if they can see through me when I can't see myself.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

You know us inside and out.

When I was younger I did things like this. Feelings were always hard for me to deal with, and intense feelings about major life changes were even more overwhelming.

They made my head spin so fast I couldn't think straight. So I did what made sense at the time - I shut them off completely, which caused me to become a cold, selfish bastard, just like this guy.

When I got overwhelmed by things, I always had to push everyone away so I could clear my head, and deal with things only from a logical standpoint. When I turned into a robot like this, I didn't have any use or time for friends or family, unless they could help me in some practical way.

I'm not excusing what your friend is doing, and I'm very sorry that he is doing this to you. You seem like a sweetheart and he should feel lucky as hell to have you as a friend. But he lives in the moment, and he's not considering the effect his actions have on your long-term relationship, because he doesn't see himself maintaining one with you.

At a later time, something might make him think of you, and he might reflect on how he left things, and he might feel pretty shitty about it, and it just might be too late to make amends, and then he'll feel really shitty, and you'll stick to him forever.

I've been in those shoes and I've learned things like this the hard way.



You have every right to feel however you want about your friend. Just realize he is very emotionally immature compared to you. He's not doing these things because he is an asshole at heart, he just doesn't know how else to handle it.

It's really unfortunate that we can justify being this way, because at some point and it never fails, we always end up hurting ourselves and the people we love. I can deal with hurting myself because it was my fault, so I learn and grow from it. But hurting other people, who didn't deserve to be treated that way and only wanted to love me, is what really kills me and hits hard when I finally realize what I've done.

and you are one of the supremo istps.

 

[stellar renegade]

You know why people say this right? If you accept this it gives them permission to continue to be this way. This person has no desire to change or challenge himself. I know you see it in him, but he doesnt want to change. He has yet to find a reason to want to change. He really needs to be dropped flat on his face a couple of times when he does that crap.

Yeah, that makes alot of sense. I guess I just haven't encountered too many of those types of people before.

Hahah... I'm glad someone seems to find it amusing. My guy friends don't find it so amusing. I've tried to cure myself for years. They joke that they're going to need to replace their kidneys from me getting rambunctious and punching so much. ... I just keep insisting it's my way of showing "affection."

hahah. you rock.

 

[Poki]

You have every right to feel however you want about your friend. Just realize he is very emotionally immature compared to you. He's not doing these things because he is an asshole at heart, he just doesn't know how else to handle it.

I am in agreeance with this, This is a T type who has had to deal with others feelings that they dont understand. If you dont have anyone to talk to it will cause us to close up everything and just not care. What helps me to not close up is to be able to talk to someone that can either explain it or tell you that its just stupid and has no logic and you did nothing wrong. You really need an F type who you trust to honestly try to see things from different angles that knows you. They can help you rationalize it or convince you to just throw the experience in the trash because its stupid.

I am still in 100% agreeance though that they need to be dropped on there face a couple times. Only he can deal with this especially if it wasnt you that caused him to close up. He needs to want to deal with it. Just be there when he does fall and try and help him rationalize it, and feel free to tell him that the other person was a jerk, out of line, etc. Be honest though because we need honesty when it comes to things like that.

 

[Domino]

Sometimes you're just a douchebag with a little gravel heart.

 

[Poki]

Sometimes you're just a douchebag with a little gravel heart.

Maybe you need to go over and slap him around a bit Beating up a douche bag can always be fun, then aphrodite can be there to pick up the pieces

 

[Domino]

hahahahah, sorry, Poki, you guys were being so helpful and mature, and I'm ruining it. I'll stop!

I couldn't agree more about the quasi-confessional behavior this person is displaying. Saying you're a jerk isn't a get out of jail free card. I have to admit, my patience for that sort of thing is extremely low. There's really no excuse - unless you're PHINEAS GAGE - to act like a jerk with impunity.

I had a friend who'd say things like that, and although he can be very very difficult, I know for a fact that he's not an ass, just acting like one. Otherwise, I wouldn't be friends with him. When he brings the self-diagnosing excusing "i'm a bad person" thing to bear, I just tell him to be quiet. It's an insecurity maneuver, or should I rather say, a move to *become* more secure within a fortress of one's own making.

Being all you can be is so much harder than letting people down.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Maybe you need to go over and slap him around a bit Beating up a douche bag can always be fun, then aphrodite can be there to pick up the pieces

 

[Tewt]

It wasnt too clear to me, but I got the impression that he is still with his girlfriend? They said they would break up when he left, but didn't?

If thats the case regardless of type, I'm going to say its plain ole guilt. Obviously he cares for his girlfriend a great deal if he is even willing to try the long distance thing when previously he has said it never works. I'd say thats a pretty huge flag of how much he cares about her, since he is willing to try the long distance thing.

He's probably not feeling too great about himself and you're a reminder of the indiscretion and he may not see much to talk about with you. He is in a relationship with someone else and he may not know that you want to talk about your friendship or care. (sorry, not being rude on purpose) He may even have mixed feelings about continuing the friendship with you in light of his cheating on his girlfriend.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Coeur]

It wasnt too clear to me, but I got the impression that he is still with his girlfriend? They said they would break up when he left, but didn't?

If thats the case regardless of type, I'm going to say its plain ole guilt. Obviously he cares for his girlfriend a great deal if he is even willing to try the long distance thing when previously he has said it never works. I'd say thats a pretty huge flag of how much he cares about her, since he is willing to try the long distance thing.

He's probably not feeling too great about himself and you're a reminder of the indiscretion and he may not see much to talk about with you. He is in a relationship with someone else and he may not know that you want to talk about your friendship or care. (sorry, not being rude on purpose) He may even have mixed feelings about continuing the friendship with you in light of his cheating on his girlfriend.

Just my 2 cents

I have no idea what's going on with them, to be honest. >_> In any case, it's not really my fault... All I heard him say for 8 months was: "we've agreed that we're going to break up when we leave."

I don't really want to be friends with him at this point. One, I don't want to spend my life second place to someone else [which could be both his girlfriend and himself]. Two, looking at the list of ways he's described himself, he's not that great of a guy. If he'll do it to others, he'll do it to me. Three, I want someone who I can communicate openly with without worrying that I said too much or stepped on some invisible trap wire. I don't WANT to be friends with someone who could emotionally detach from me if I proved to be unbeneficial.

I'm guessing that he thought kissing me was a mistake, which makes him wish it didn't happen, which makes him withdraw because he thinks I'll want something more from it.
Jerk.

At the same time, as much as I may act like I'm mad at him, I'm mainly mad at myself. At the time, instead of kissing him, I should have said: "What about your girlfriend?"

 

[Jeffster]

I would pay good money to see Steph pounce on someone.

I would like Steph to pounce on me.

 

[Poki]

If he'll do it to others, he'll do it to me.

Its suprising how many people ignore this fact. I dont know if this is something recent or I have always done this, but I judge people on how they react to others and not just myself. If someone says that they will tell someone something just to get them to do something do you not think they will do that to you? The tactics people use on others WILL be used on you at some point, it is who they are and what they know. It doesnt mean you have to put up with it or just accept it when it does turn, but dont be blindsided when it does turn on you.

 

[Tewt]

Its suprising how many people ignore this fact. I dont know if this is something recent or I have always done this, but I judge people on how they react to others and not just myself. If someone says that they will tell someone something just to get them to do something do you not think they will do that to you? The tactics people use on others WILL be used on you at some point, it is who they are and what they know. It doesnt mean you have to put up with it or just accept it when it does turn, but dont be blindsided when it does turn on you.

to every last word.

 

[Tewt]

I have no idea what's going on with them, to be honest. >_> In any case, it's not really my fault... All I heard him say for 8 months was: "we've agreed that we're going to break up when we leave."

I don't really want to be friends with him at this point. One, I don't want to spend my life second place to someone else [which could be both his girlfriend and himself]. Two, looking at the list of ways he's described himself, he's not that great of a guy. If he'll do it to others, he'll do it to me. Three, I want someone who I can communicate openly with without worrying that I said too much or stepped on some invisible trap wire. I don't WANT to be friends with someone who could emotionally detach from me if I proved to be unbeneficial.

I'm guessing that he thought kissing me was a mistake, which makes him wish it didn't happen, which makes him withdraw because he thinks I'll want something more from it.
Jerk.

At the same time, as much as I may act like I'm mad at him, I'm mainly mad at myself. At the time, instead of kissing him, I should have said: "What about your girlfriend?"

Oh, sorry I hope you didnt think I meant it was your fault, I agree with you..it's not.

And jerk is right, lol.

 

[substitute]

the only way it's ever possible to get my ISTP talking about his feelings is if you get him drunk! you have to be patient, and spend at least four hours talking randomly about movies, bikes, dumb commercials, people who annoy him at work, maps (he loves looking at maps), tools, and any number of other things, before he's drunk and talkative enough for you to "connect" one of those innocuous subjects to "well how's that going anyway? are you pissed off with it or what?" and then he'll start telling the story of how he's seen things and felt about them, and you have to just listen and let him talk, his way, and not try to prise anything out of him but let him reveal what he wants/needs to and be content with that.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

the only way it's ever possible to get my ISTP talking about his feelings is if you get him drunk! you have to be patient, and spend at least four hours talking randomly about movies, bikes, dumb commercials, people who annoy him at work, maps (he loves looking at maps), tools, and any number of other things, before he's drunk and talkative enough for you to "connect" one of those innocuous subjects to "well how's that going anyway? are you pissed off with it or what?" and then he'll start telling the story of how he's seen things and felt about them, and you have to just listen and let him talk, his way, and not try to prise anything out of him but let him reveal what he wants/needs to and be content with that.

what is it about istps and drinking? do they just need the alcohol/substances to be able to tap into feelings, or open up to their feelings? are the things they feel when drunk REAL feelings for them, or not? i'm assuming so, since that's how it works for me. what i want drunk is what i REALLY want, i'm just used to repressing it in my normal daily life.

 

[phoenity]

I have to be really deep in my head for me to experience my feelings intensely enough to be able to word them, because they are repressed most of the time.

Certain substances put me into a deeply introspective mindset for long periods, and greatly intensify my feelings to the point where I can experience, understand, and sort through them. They have been a sort of self-psychotherapy over the past few years for resolving long-standing emotional issues.

Alcohol can lower my inhibitions to where I can more easily talk about feelings closer to the surface, but I don't use it for that purpose.

 

[substitute]

yeah, that's what I figure it is with my ISTP, largely cos I'm about the same, to perhaps a slightly lesser extent, but only slightly less.