[ISTP] My current issue with my ISTP friend

[Unique]

What makes you think he is interested in a friendship? What if all along he only liked you romantically?

Also, the fact that he has a GF and that the conversations about feelings were not in person could explain why things are going badly I disagree with pink when she said ISTPs just "go for it" there's a lot that ISTPs don't say out loud that are tucked away deeply

The lack of communication in a long distance situation is pretty damn normal for an SP and I'm not sure about other SPs but I tend to be pretty limited in my txting as I just don't see the value of it over face to face... friendship might work over the phone but nothing more

Lets assume I'm right for a moment and he is only interested in you romantically, wouldn't his current behavior be expected? You're trying to have some kind of distanced friendship which may not be sitting well with him

 

[RogueAgent]

I personally don't see how texting him once every few days or so is clingy. I also don't see how confronting him about things that our affecting our friendship is bad.

If he isn't answering between texts, I'd say that is the definition of clingy. Give him space, let him BE. He will contact you if he wants to. He may, he may not. You seem to have a need to figure out "where we are at as friends". I go through periods where I just don't want to deal with certain people and the more they bother me, the more I want them to piss off (at least for now, it is usually not a permanent feeling).

As an ISTP, I will text or call if that is my desire. Try to quit thinking about it so much or taking it personally. I know that might be a confusing concept because it IS PERSONAL TO YOU. It might be the content of the conversation that he is tired of.

Live your life, and maybe if there was an activity you both shared in the past that he is interested in (say snowboarding, or whatever) go DO IT alone or with friends and then text him about that and it may help reignite conversation. Be warned if he is like me, my friends will try to talk to me about one of my interests and I won't care because I am not into it at the present. Cyclical interests are one of my quirks (other ISTPs seem to share).

 

[stellar renegade]

This times 10. The only way I can find out I'm in the wrong is if I find it out on my own. If someone goes up and tells me that, there's a near 100% chance that I'm going to resist and the process is going to go on longer.

Same for me.

 

[Coeur]

If he isn't answering between texts, I'd say that is the definition of clingy. Give him space, let him BE. He will contact you if he wants to. He may, he may not. You seem to have a need to figure out "where we are at as friends". I go through periods where I just don't want to deal with certain people and the more they bother me, the more I want them to piss off (at least for now, it is usually not a permanent feeling).

Got it. I'm giving him space now. A permanent space if he chooses. Hopefully I didn't screw things up more by trying to talk to him, but honestly, I should be able to talk to someone I've been friends with for two years. This silence is from the same person who says I love you and talks to me when he's crying. I know this is a personal issue and he may not LIKE to open up, but it would be worse if we never talked about it and came to incorrect conclusions. If I'm left in the dark, I try to turn on the light. That's my response. No matter what his reasoning is for doing what he's doing, I still feel like he's being rude. If I had waited for him to come around- which, if he never talked about it would be all the more frustrating- it would have been extremely difficult for me personally.

What makes you think he is interested in a friendship? What if all along he only liked you romantically?
The lack of communication in a long distance situation is pretty damn normal for an SP and I'm not sure about other SPs but I tend to be pretty limited in my txting as I just don't see the value of it over face to face... friendship might work over the phone but nothing more

We've always had a long distance friendship that has operated by texting.

Lets assume I'm right for a moment and he is only interested in you romantically, wouldn't his current behavior be expected? You're trying to have some kind of distanced friendship which may not be sitting well with him

He clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship with me [at least for right now]. My only option is friendship.

 

[Domino]

This times 10. The only way I can find out I'm in the wrong is if I find it out on my own. If someone goes up and tells me that, there's a near 100% chance that I'm going to resist and the process is going to go on longer.

[gentle inane musak playing]

[A woman is walking through the grocery store, arm through basket; she stops in the froot aisle]

[She grabs an apple.... it resists... puzzled, she reaches again... it growls, rolls away and tries to mix itself in with the kumquats... ]

"I never had this trouble with peaches," she grumbles.

[end scene]

Everyone I've ever been romantically interested in has confused me badly.

Why is that, Jeff?

I disagree with pink when she said ISTPs just "go for it" there's a lot that ISTPs don't say out loud that are tucked away deeply

I alluded to a lot of background processing. But tell me, ultimately are you not a man of action? What is an Se user without an action, as swift or delayed as it may be?

He clearly stated that he doesn't want a relationship with me [at least for right now]. My only option is friendship.

This guy had better **** gold bricks.

 

[Charmed Justice]

This guy had better **** gold bricks.

Damn, luv sux.

 

[Domino]

Damn, luv sux.

Don't it just?

*thoughtfully smokes a pipe and contemplates the universe* *decides that Jupiter and Uranus should not be so close together*

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

i have some experience with istp men. my hubby is one. i just was in a weird, sort-of intimate relationship with one, and i've crushed on others.

i think istps come in two flavors: self-centered and other-centered. the former can possibly grow out of it or not, but in the meantime, you're pretty screwed as his motivation will be totally about and for HIM; the latter is pretty good for a relationship if you can find a way to mesh with him and the timing is right and all that other stuff.

i think (based on numerous convos with my husband--haha i can put one in the torture chair and force him to divulge his secrets!! buahahahahah) your guy found you to be a challenge from the time you turned the initial romantic feelings into a friendship. from the beginning. i think his constant texts and communications were to get you. i know it sounds completely unbelievable and manipulative, but young, or self-centered or *insert adjective* istps have been known to do worse for a piece of ass. it might not have been completely done consciously either.

of course he LIKED/S you or he never would have invested that kind of time in you. now he's ready to move on. istps live in the present moment. he is not going to get much out of a ltr or friendship with you. what? talk about feelings? haha. talk about school? talk? not likely, unless you are one of his guy friends and you're getting drunk with him.

then once he got to you and you *made out* (i'm assuming, not to be too vulgar, that he got his rox off ) he realized the challenge was gone and he was off to school soon anyway, so ce la vi. plus he's already dealing with a gf and heading off to college.......which is a lot to deal with in itself for an immature istp.

i've learned from my hubby that there is no such thing as friends of the opposite sex. all women are seen as potential sex partners. this may not be how all istps are, of course, but mine is a pretty typical, hot, smart, manly man version. mine says, "i don't need any girl 'friends', i have guys for that, what i need is more (you know)" his answer when questionned about his female friends on facebook, is that they have 'friended' him, and that guys have girls on their page, or in general, because of 'scatter theory', which is at it sounds. you befriend lots of chicks in the hopes that one turns into a fuck. i know. he sounds horrible, and i can't really believe i hear him right when he says this stuff, because it's so offensive to my nf sensibility. but he's really just being honest.

i've learned from the one i was intimate with, to take what he says as the total truth and nothing but. your guys said he's off to school and doesn't have time means just that. as an Ni NF i would read so much into this guy's actions that i never really knew which end was up with him. one moment i was convinced he loved me, the next that i was just a fuck buddy, the next that he despised me, etc., etc. but when i look back at everything, the truest thing i see is that what he said all along in his little one-liners was really what has panned out by his actions to be the truth.

your guy may indeed be feeling guilty (let's hope he's got that much of a conscience). i hope you can move on fairly quickly from this. NFs just get so chewed up when we tangle with sps. it really sucks. but that's prolly why we find them so fucking hot to begin with. no?

i do think istps make awesome partners (we have a wonderful marriage) but it's only when they've matured a bit or are ready to become a bit less self-centered, or grow a conscience.

Damn, luv sux.

Don't it just?

*thoughtfully smokes a pipe and contemplates the universe* *decides that Jupiter and Uranus should not be so close together*

can we start a 12 step you-can-recover-from-your-istp group?
pink can be the head counselor. i think it's sorely needed.

haha! was that pun intended?

 

[Coeur]

i have some experience with istp men. my hubby is one. i just was in a weird, sort-of intimate relationship with one, and i've crushed on others.

i think istps come in two flavors: self-centered and other-centered. the former can possibly grow out of it or not, but in the meantime, you're pretty screwed as his motivation will be totally about and for HIM; the latter is pretty good for a relationship if you can find a way to mesh with him and the timing is right and all that other stuff.

i think (based on numerous convos with my husband--haha i can put one in the torture chair and force him to divulge his secrets!! buahahahahah) your guy found you to be a challenge from the time you turned the initial romantic feelings into a friendship. from the beginning. i think his constant texts and communications were to get you. i know it sounds completely unbelievable and manipulative, but young, or self-centered or *insert adjective* istps have been known to do worse for a piece of ass. it might not have been completely done consciously either.

of course he LIKED/S you or he never would have invested that kind of time in you. now he's ready to move on. istps live in the present moment. he is not going to get much out of a ltr or friendship with you. what? talk about feelings? haha. talk about school? talk? not likely, unless you are one of his guy friends and you're getting drunk with him.

then once he got to you and you *made out* (i'm assuming, not to be too vulgar, that he got his rox off ) he realized the challenge was gone and he was off to school soon anyway, so ce la vi. plus he's already dealing with a gf and heading off to college.......which is a lot to deal with in itself for an immature istp.

i've learned from my hubby that there is no such thing as friends of the opposite sex. all women are seen as potential sex partners. this may not be how all istps are, of course, but mine is a pretty typical, hot, smart, manly man version. mine says, "i don't need any girl 'friends', i have guys for that, what i need is more (you know)" his answer when questionned about his female friends on facebook, is that they have 'friended' him, and that guys have girls on their page, or in general, because of 'scatter theory', which is at it sounds. you befriend lots of chicks in the hopes that one turns into a fuck. i know. he sounds horrible, and i can't really believe i hear him right when he says this stuff, because it's so offensive to my nf sensibility. but he's really just being honest.

i've learned from the one i was intimate with, to take what he says as the total truth and nothing but. your guys said he's off to school and doesn't have time means just that. as an Ni NF i would read so much into this guy's actions that i never really knew which end was up with him. one moment i was convinced he loved me, the next that i was just a fuck buddy, the next that he despised me, etc., etc. but when i look back at everything, the truest thing i see is that what he said all along in his little one-liners was really what has panned out by his actions to be the truth.

your guy may indeed be feeling guilty (let's hope he's got that much of a conscience). i hope you can move on fairly quickly from this. NFs just get so chewed up when we tangle with sps. it really sucks. but that's prolly why we find them so fucking hot to begin with. no?

i do think istps make awesome partners (we have a wonderful marriage) but it's only when they've matured a bit or are ready to become a bit less self-centered, or grow a conscience.




can we start a 12 step you-can-recover-from-your-istp group?
pink can be the head counselor. i think it's sorely needed.

haha! was that pun intended?

This all reminds me of him, actually. He labels himself as manipulative, self-centered, arrogant- etc. He says that guys and girls can never just be friends. He also said that I was the special exception. Still, he has this annoying: "this relationship provides no more logical benefit; I'm detaching" ability.

You said to take everything he says as truth. He said he'd miss me and that he loves me. BUT...that doesn't override the fact that he can logically detach whenever he pleases.

ISTPs are great. I'm glad you found a good one. But you're right- no immature SPs for me. XD

We do need a 12 step program.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

This all reminds me of him, actually. He labels himself as manipulative, self-centered, arrogant- etc. He says that guys and girls can never just be friends. He also said that I was the special exception. Still, he has this annoying: "this relationship provides no more logical benefit; I'm detaching" ability.

You said to take everything he says as truth. He said he'd miss me and that he loves me. BUT...that doesn't override the fact that he can logically detach whenever he pleases.

ISTPs are great. I'm glad you found a good one. But you're right- no immature SPs for me. XD

We do need a 12 step program.

well, fwiw, i'm sorry for you. it is an emotional roller coaster to say the least. dealing with the self-centered ones can be like dealing with two separate people imo (maybe this is true of all self-centered types?). on the one hand you feel and know the feelings they have for you exist somewhere deep within, and you can love who they really are. but they have the ability to deny/ignore/repress those feelings if they deem it necessary for themselves, or from a logical standpoint. i envy that ability sometimes. there seems to be a bit of a misbalance in the emotional maturity department between you two, or maybe just in the what-you-want-out-of-life-right-now department.

what doesn't kill us..........lemme know when the first meeting is........

 

[Unique]

I alluded to a lot of background processing. But tell me, ultimately are you not a man of action? What is an Se user without an action, as swift or delayed as it may be?

They are actions, not words... was more my point, but yes I am a man of action

When I'm interested in someone they know

Also to the OP sorry I made some assumptions, but from what I know of myself and maybe other ISTPs is that friends are primarily people we do activities with or talk face to face with

Not to say the texting couldn't work but could he have been putting that extra effort in because he was interested at some point?

The alternative scenario that he only ever wanted friendship I call BS on with the making out, unless you were just completely coming on to him and thought it was going both ways but wasn't

After some thinking about this my conclusion is that he isn't interested romantically and thinks that friendship wont work (for what reason I am unsure)

 

[stellar renegade]

I'm more than pretty sure he was interested in you.

i think (based on numerous convos with my husband--haha i can put one in the torture chair and force him to divulge his secrets!! buahahahahah) your guy found you to be a challenge from the time you turned the initial romantic feelings into a friendship. from the beginning. i think his constant texts and communications were to get you. i know it sounds completely unbelievable and manipulative, but young, or self-centered or *insert adjective* istps have been known to do worse for a piece of ass. it might not have been completely done consciously either.

I agree, if I'm really interested in a girl I will definitely keep trying to communicate even if there are difficulties in the way, because you never know how a situation might turn out and what opportunities might open up, y'know? It's not always conscious for me, either.

i've learned from my hubby that there is no such thing as friends of the opposite sex. all women are seen as potential sex partners. this may not be how all istps are, of course, but mine is a pretty typical, hot, smart, manly man version. mine says, "i don't need any girl 'friends', i have guys for that, what i need is more (you know)" his answer when questionned about his female friends on facebook, is that they have 'friended' him, and that guys have girls on their page, or in general, because of 'scatter theory', which is at it sounds. you befriend lots of chicks in the hopes that one turns into a fuck. i know. he sounds horrible, and i can't really believe i hear him right when he says this stuff, because it's so offensive to my nf sensibility. but he's really just being honest.

Now I don't know about that, I'm an ESTP so there might be a difference there but there are alot of girls who are just my friends and won't ever be anything more. But that's not, of course, to say that I don't have a repertoire of potential mates out there.

 

[StephMC]

Man. I'm beginning to think I need to go kick this guy in the face (Sorry, Coeur ). He just does not know what he wants. I know this feeling--I deal with it frequently--but I also do my best to keep people out of my fleeting whims. This guy doesn't even make an effort: He does what he thinks is a good idea in the moment, and throws future consequences to the wind... and thus hurting you and his girlfriend (I doubt she knows, but he still was not including her in that equation when he kissed you.)

This guy is a wreck. Any ISTP that claims to be "manipulative" is almost always a wreck. Just like everyone else, we have the ability to manipulate, but I haven't talked to one that -chooses- to manipulate... much less claim to be manipulative (we usually pride ourselves on NOT being manipulative, and letting people be). If it were at all possible, I'd steer clear of him. If that's too hard to do, than set up your boundaries. We do our best not to cross boundaries, because we don't want ours crossed. Show confidence when you do this... try your best to give off a "don't fuck with me" vibe. If an INFP did this to me, I'd be quite taken aback. They're so sweet, normally... did I really just screw up so bad that I made them thoroughly pissed at me?!

RogueAgent and iamathousandapples were spot on when they said you need to back off... the only time I would treat anyone like that is if I felt cornered, and I will lash out. But when you back off, it may confuse him (this is a good thing. He probably needs it). He may start second-guessing himself wondering if he went too far and feeling guilty about what he might have done to you. It'll take a while, but he will probably send you a random text when he's thinking about something you guys bond over. In this way, he's trying to act like nothing happened between y'all and wants to see if you'll play the game. Do... but once y'all reconnect for a while, lay down those ground rules. Try not to do it out of no where though... he'll bite. Maybe do it when he wants to go hang out... be like "Hang out, huh? Honestly, I don't think that's such a great idea just yet." The key is to look for cues to bring things into topic. When people bring stuff up that I don't want to talk about out of no where, I shut down. I keep thinking they were were trying the whole time to fit that into the conversation and trap me again. Discussing feelings and emotions make us feel very uncomfortable.

Anyways, undeveloped ISTPs like this guy are tricky little things. It's going to require a -lot- of patience on your end to patch up this relationship. But if it's worth it, I hope it works out

Edit: Apologies for sounding violent. I have a tendency to do this without thinking when I hear about situations like this

 

[stellar renegade]

I figured he may have just had an honest moment if he said he was manipulative, arrogant and self-centered. I didn't think he'd be dumb enough to say it in a boastful way. Just like admitting that he can be manipulative sometimes.

Regardless, that's a very good point. If he's claimed to be manipulative then this whole thing was definitely not good.

I just have to say it's a good thing you're trying to be friends with him at a distance at this point. You did good by asking other people to give you advice. I know it's hard as an Idealist not to have an idealized view of other people, so asking others for insight is probably your best tactic.

 

[Domino]

like dealing with two separate people

Indeed. Mine did drugs like you wouldn't believe. He was split down the middle -- the tense, freaked-out, hunted animal and this impossibly kind, sweet, funny guy. We had a mutual friend who was a mess 90% of the time, and he was always so sweet to her. And then there was the savage lost boy self-medicating himself into oblivion.

what doesn't kill us..........

....makes us stark raving mad.

When I'm interested in someone they know

Thank you. This is what I was driving at.

Man. I'm beginning to think I need to go kick this guy in the face (Sorry, Coeur ).

I would pay good money to see Steph pounce on someone. I've never seen an ISTP girl commence to wailin'.

 

[stellar renegade]

Especially Steph, I would scalp a few heads to see that.

 

[Domino]

I have only one ISTP female friend and one ISTP aunt. I never got to see either of them lay anyone off. I feel my life is less vibrant because of it somehow.

 

[StephMC]

Ah... it's not all that uncommon (for me at least). Just provide the whiskey, and heads will roll.... although originally it was supposed to be playful. Rawr!

 

[soccerjunkie1996]

Ah... it's not all that uncommon (for me at least). Just provide the whiskey, and heads will roll.... although originally it was supposed to be playful. Rawr!

Giggidy.





Just kidding....




...but seriously

 

[Coeur]

Man. I'm beginning to think I need to go kick this guy in the face (Sorry, Coeur ).

Sounds good to me!

This guy is a wreck. Any ISTP that claims to be "manipulative" is almost always a wreck.

He claims to be a lot of things. He says that he's an awful person. In his exact words: um ya; im a dick- im very cynical and look out for numero uno- ethical egoist and objectivist - i am very distrustful and hate ppl before i like them; i dont think trusting should be the status quo...im misogynistic, womanizing, racist, intolerant, full of myself, never wrong, manipulative, and pretty much a "bad" person...

I figured he may have just had an honest moment if he said he was manipulative, arrogant and self-centered. I didn't think he'd be dumb enough to say it in a boastful way. Just like admitting that he can be manipulative sometimes.

Regardless, that's a very good point. If he's claimed to be manipulative then this whole thing was definitely not good.

I just have to say it's a good thing you're trying to be friends with him at a distance at this point. You did good by asking other people to give you advice. I know it's hard as an Idealist not to have an idealized view of other people, so asking others for insight is probably your best tactic.

Idealism is a problem for me. Whenever he told me: "I'm a jerk" I would say: "no you're not. You can be a jerk, but you're not bad to the core." I honestly don't think he is, but that doesn't change the fact that he's treating me poorly.

The alternative scenario that he only ever wanted friendship I call BS on with the making out, unless you were just completely coming on to him and thought it was going both ways but wasn't

Nuh uh. He made it clear he wanted to and he was into it at the time. I don't come on strong at all.

It'll take a while, but he will probably send you a random text when he's thinking about something you guys bond over. In this way, he's trying to act like nothing happened between y'all and wants to see if you'll play the game.

That sounds like something he would do. >_>

Show confidence when you do this... try your best to give off a "don't fuck with me" vibe. If an INFP did this to me, I'd be quite taken aback. They're so sweet, normally... did I really just screw up so bad that I made them thoroughly pissed at me?!

That sounds like a likely scenario. I just don't want that reaction to tick him off...

Do. but once y'all reconnect for a while, lay down those ground rules. Try not to do it out of no where though... he'll bite. Maybe do it when he wants to go hang out... be like "Hang out, huh? Honestly, I don't think that's such a great idea just yet."

I'm not going to see him for awhile, because he's still out of state... he might come back for Christmas.