Mistyped TypeCentral Members

[RaptorWizard]

(And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)

Green in one Universe you could be a 5 in the box and in another Universe you could be a 9 obliterated from the box. I hope fortune smiles upon you as you pick which one to put yourself inside of as not only will it dictate your type but also your very destiny as your life would literally depend on it according to the quantum theory illustrated in the schrodinger's cat in the box metaphor.

 

[Pseudo]

That sounds reasonable, and I will be one of the first to agree that extenuating circumstances affect type in such a way as to make some people either atypical or untypable. However, for people without those circumstances the system is pretty useful, and going about it as I suggested fits with the system.



Traits are not that straightforward, nor are they or the corresponding types as obvious as colors. You're taking a vague type with vague characteristics, which can be shared by other types, and then picking out one to categorize someone as one of those vague types. That neither gives you an accurate understanding of the whole picture, nor does it really fit with the system because you're not following distinctions. You're following the logic that all people of a type have X characteristic, and as you said yourself, there are 16 types for 7 billion people; so really that's kind of irrational. If you're categorizing people based on a single trait using generalizations, that has in it the possibility for error. So you can't persist in your conclusions if the subject is shown to be outside the area of the generalization.

Whether or not I feel the need to prove my intelligence has nothing to do with the truth of my arguments.

As to your comment, I recently wrote a paper on Epicurus for one of my philosophy classes, and I like to apply what I learn to life. I like connecting ideas and discussing philosophy. The fact that you view it as pontification rather than a chance to explore truth would suggest that you don't like objectively discussing ideas as much as the standard INTP, if I am to follow your line of reasoning.

"conformity of the subjective experience and personal essence to definition and rational understanding, something Fi is resistant to;."

Wrong. I have said many times that this does not apply to me. At all. And I've explained why in great detail. If you don't bother to read my posts, don't bother to try to type me. Do you have any other (erroneous) information on which to base a type opinion? And you didn't answer my question, I asked for a full profile of my motivations to fit in as they apply to the cognitive functions, as I described; you only picked out one, which doesn't translate to a type. If you can't, I'd say you have no grounds on which to correlate my motivations with type.

The whole point of types is to analyze behavior. So naturally you base typings on certain characteristics otherwise it's just arbitrarily calling people by four letter codes. The letter signify certain traits shared by people within a type. If you don't assume people of type groups share characteristics than what is the basis or personality signifiers xxxx or xwx? They indicate that the person has certain traits.


Needing to prove intelligence does affect your arguments when you attempt to alter definitions to suit how you would like to see yourself. It's a system. If you disregard all the laws of the system then it becomes truly useless.


By all means Show me how subjective I am because I dislike irrelevant posturing.



I don't really care about your type and I'm not going to write a paper on it or read all Your posts. You called me into this conversation, soliciting my thoughts on your type. We had several long correspondences where I've explained my perceptions of you based on things you've stated in your posts.

 

[greenfairy]

The whole point of types is to analyze behavior. So naturally you base typings on certain characteristics otherwise it's just arbitrarily calling people by four letter codes. The letter signify certain traits shared by people within a type. If you don't assume people of type groups share characteristics than what is the basis or personality signifiers xxxx or xwx? They indicate that the person has certain traits.

Type characteristics are only trends and generalizations. Otherwise there would be a list of traits for each type, and everyone of that type would have all of them, and anyone who had only 9/10 would be excluded from the type. So then you modify it to be the majority of traits for one type and a minority for another, say 7 thinking traits and 3 feeling traits- but then you run into a problem when someone has 5 thinking traits and 5 feeling traits. Also there's no one person or committee to make said list. Maybe I have 4 feeling traits and 6 thinking traits based on one list, and 6 feeling traits and 4 thinking traits based on another person's. Maybe I have my own ideas of things to add to the list and that skews the results accordingly. Maybe you think I have a trait that I don't have, as illustrated before. It's not that simple.

Needing to prove intelligence does affect your arguments web you attempt to alter definitions to suit how you would like to see yourself.

I think once again you are projecting things onto me which aren't there. If you think I am altering definitions, please find official definitions which contradict mine; I'll be glad to retract my statements.

By all means Show me how subjective I am because I dislike irrelevant posturing.

Just showing how your thinking can be turned around.

I don't really care about your type and I'm not going to write a paper on it or read all Ti posts. You called me into this conversation, soliciting my joints on your type. We had several long correspondences where I've explained my perceptions of you based on things you've stated in your posts.

I didn't ask you to read Ti posts. You implied Fi, despite the fact that I've posted many times to the effect that I use Fe- making me INFJ not INFP, if you are suggesting I am INFP. I called you into the discussion to see if you had a problem with me typing as INFJ.

Evidently you cared quite a lot about my type in the past, as you argued with me about not being INTP. I'm glad you don't care anymore.

 

[Pseudo]

So your proposing a state of personality neutrality where there are no overriding tendencies or preferences for problem solving. An übermensch or an inert mess of a person.

 

[Cellmold]

Evidently you cared quite a lot about my type in the past, as you argued with me about not being INTP. I'm glad you don't care anymore.

Aha, but you aren't an INTP anymore. You have slipped past the net of 'wannabe INTP' therefore you are not a threat or of interest.

All shall be organised in perception! And once you are placed...there is no getting out. But dont worry, there will be things to do inside the cage, ive carved little picture-stories in my bars...what will you do with yours I wonder?

 

[Elfboy]

INFJ: probably.
9-2-6. Interesting. I never thought of myself as the first two. I feel like all of these motivations apply to everyone, and trying to rank them in order is kind of useless; it seems like it's better to just discern in which situations one has which motivations and then follow the corresponding advice. That's my opinion on the system, but it's not one I use. You could be right. The thing is, since I think everyone has them at one time or another, if one doesn't jump out as being primary I probably won't get anywhere; I could pick out all of these at different times if I dug deep enough into my psychology; and since I don't have every situation I've ever been in to assess at once, I could just list a bunch of them for each number. It sounds overwhelming. Do you have a shortcut? The test was relatively inconclusive because I was evenly split between 4 or 5 numbers.

(And it's not because I resist being categorized; I just like to have convincing reasoning to choose one thing over another.)

I dunno, you just seem be really big on peace, harmony and natural balance. other than that, your overall vibe is very 9-ish. I'll add more if I can think of how to explain it better.
PS: tests won't tell you anything

 

[greenfairy]

Aha, but you aren't an INTP anymore. You have slipped past the net of 'wannabe INTP' therefore you are not a threat or of interest.

All shall be organised in perception! And once you are placed...there is no getting out. But dont worry, there will be things to do inside the cage, ive carved little picture-stories in my bars...what will you do with yours I wonder?

Lol. Hey if we're in the same cage, we can play games! How about strip Scrabble??

 

[Elfboy]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]
you seem like a clear 7 fixer to me. I'd say ESTJ 1w2>7w6>3w? Sp/So

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]
you seem like a clear 7 fixer to me. I'd say ESTJ 1w2>7w6>3w? Sp/So

Interesting. I've never been sure of my tritype, so thanks for starting this conversation up.

What makes you say that I'm a "clear" 7w6 fix, as opposed to 6w7?

Edit: Although I'm almost certainly on the cusp, between Sp/So and So/Sp, I ended up deciding on So/Sp because I do have an eye for interpersonal networks and dynamics. I think I have more of a natural ability to understand others' relationships with one another, than to understand them personally/individually. The problem is, I have a hard time distinguishing the above from Te/Si (i.e. a natural understanding of hierarchies), and I have a hard time distinguishing my occasional strong Sp moments from Fi/4 (i.e. withdrawing into yourself under stress).

Another edit: If you're right, then that would mean that there's an Enneagram difference between me and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION]; I relate to him a whole lot in terms of us both being 1w2 and ESTJ, and I can see myself in his interaction style, if not as much his posting style. (I am so much less concise than him! ) But at the same time, I've always felt that there was something different in there, that made him more subdued and self-contained, and a little milder, perhaps, but I was never sure how much that had to do with life experience -- something that SD and I have talked about in detail.

 

[Elfboy]

Interesting. I've never been sure of my tritype, so thanks for starting this conversation up.
What makes you say that I'm a "clear" 7w6 fix, as opposed to 6w7?
Edit: Although I'm almost certainly on the cusp, between Sp/So and So/Sp, I ended up deciding on So/Sp because I do have an eye for interpersonal networks and dynamics. I think I have more of a natural ability to understand others' relationships with one another, than to understand them personally/individually. The problem is, I have a hard time distinguishing the above from Te/Si (i.e. a natural understanding of hierarchies), and I have a hard time distinguishing my occasional strong Sp moments from Fi/4 (i.e. withdrawing into yourself under stress).
Another edit: If you're right, then that would mean that there's an Enneagram difference between me and [MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION]; I relate to him a whole lot in terms of us both being 1w2 and ESTJ, and I can see myself in his interaction style, if not as much his posting style. (I am so much less concise than him! ) But at the same time, I've always felt that there was something different in there, that made him more subdued and self-contained, and a little milder, perhaps, but I was never sure how much that had to do with life experience -- something that SD and I have talked about in detail.

- you're unusually Sanguine for an ESTJ, particularly and ESTJ 1
- SJs with a 7 fix tend to have stronger Ne and be more interested in exploring new ideas

I sort of thought Sp first because you seem to keep to yourself more/be more focused on perfecting your own life, habits etc as opposed to society at large. Sp/So understands hierarchies too, they just tend to view them as a means rather than an ends. So dom 1w2s are extremely political (though an Sp/So 1w2 could be as well) and focused on social reform and improving society

 

[EJCC]

- you're unusually Sanguine for an ESTJ, particularly and ESTJ 1
- SJs with a 7 fix tend to have stronger Ne and be more interested in exploring new ideas

That seems true. I also think I'm more easily distracted by cool new things, and it's harder for me to stay focused on tasks if I don't think they're useful or fun.

I sort of thought Sp first because you seem to keep to yourself more/be more focused on perfecting your own life, habits etc as opposed to society at large. Sp/So understands hierarchies too, they just tend to view them as a means rather than an ends. So dom 1w2s are extremely political (though an Sp/So 1w2 could be as well) and focused on social reform and improving society

Interesting. Could you elaborate a bit on the bolded?


Also, if anyone else has an opinion, speak up! I would speak for myself, but I honestly don't know enough about tritype to be authoritative here.

 

[Elfboy]

That seems true. I also think I'm more easily distracted by cool new things, and it's harder for me to stay focused on tasks if I don't think they're useful or fun.

Interesting. Could you elaborate a bit on the bolded?

Sp/So recognizes social hierarchies and utilizes them for self advancement (for instance, using contacts to secure a promotion or a business deal). So/Sp uses their Sp to look after the needs and concerns of their community or group.

 

[EJCC]

Sp/So recognizes social hierarchies and utilizes them for self advancement (for instance, using contacts to secure a promotion or a business deal). So/Sp uses their Sp to look after the needs and concerns of their community or group.

Hm. I think it depends, for me. If I'm figuring out hierarchies in a group that I'm unfamiliar with, it's really just data collection. I want to understand my social environment, and I can only do that if I understand how that group operates. I'm not entirely certain what my motivation is, for that -- probably the same motivations that I have for following gossip (which I have been known to do). Getting to know people without getting too close to them, maybe.

I know that the skill is pretty useful with learning about cute guys, though. I find out if we have any mutual friends, I trace through that network to find out what his friends think of him, whether I'm his usual type, whether he's my usual type.

As for groups of friends and friendly acquaintances, I want to understand the social dynamics there because it helps me deal with the group with greater success. It can help me, for example, make sure everyone is having a good time, when I'm hosting a party. You have to know who to invite, because you don't want to invite one person from one of your social groups and five people from another, unless you're certain that those five people would be very inclusive of the one person they don't know.

 

[Elfboy]

I really don't think you're an 8. You seem like either a 9w8 or a 7w6 and probably So/Sx. If you are indeed an 8, you are the strangest 8 that I've ever met.

seconded (my thoughts on her type are exactly the same, in fact, I was JUST about to post about this lol)
[MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION]
how do you relate to this description of 8?

Naranjo, in Character and Neurosis:
Ennea-Type VIII: "Sadistic Character and Lust"
Lust is.. a kinship to indolence... an attempt to compensate for a hidden lack of aliveness.
"Anti social personality disorder"
"phallic narcissistic"
disobedient and defiant
"moral anesthesia"
... guiltlessness, incapacity of object love, impulsivity, emotional shallowness
concealed sadistic characteristics
exploitative orientation
"does not expect to receive things from others as gifts, but to take them away from others by force or cunning"
He describes the most unhealthy 8s as anti-social personalities:
hostile affectivity, assertive self-image, interpersonal vindictiveness, malevolent projection...
"the need for vindictive triumph"
"He is convinced that everyone at the bottom is malevolent and crooked, that friendly gestures are hypocritical... regard everyone with distrust"
He quotes Horney on a "lusty person" (8):
"He is openly arrogant, often rude and offensive, although sometime this is covered with a thin veneer of civil politeness. In subtle and gross ways with or without realizing it, he humiliates others and exploits them. He may use women for the satisfaction of his sexual needs with utter disregard for their feelings....uses people as a means to an end......maintains contacts exclusively on the basis of their serving his needs for triumph....as stepping stones in his career....utter disregard of others' needs...
contemptuous disregard for others...intimidating others into a subdued appeasement...
"This absence of sympathy has many causes, lying in his hostility towards others and in his lacking sympathy for himself. But what contributes most to his callousness toward others is the envy of them. It is a bitter envy --not for this for that particular asset, but pervasive--and stems from his feeling excluded from life in general....
lust may be seen as repressed envy
Now in Naranjo's own description of type 8:
The revenge which is present in ennea-type VIII is a long term one... in response to the pain, humiliation and impotence felt in early childhood.
"a manifestation of vindictive punitiveness"
"power seeking", "putting others down", "disdain and scorn for others"
Their seductiveness, bragging, and arrogant claims are consciously manipulative; they are geared to gaining influence and elevation in the power and dominance hierarchy.
...to compensate for feelings of guilt, shame and worthlessness evoked by his disregard of others the individual has engaged in a process of guilt denial...
... ennea-type VIII character fails to constitute full humanness..
...lust, in its impetuous grasping of the tangible, entails an impoverishment of tender qualities and subtlety which results in a loss of wholeness...this reaching, substituted for being, leaves him forever dissatisfied, craving intensity.

 

[kyuuei]

seconded (my thoughts on her type are exactly the same, in fact, I was JUST about to post about this lol)

how do you relate to this description of 8?

:/ O rly.

your dreams are SOO 8

Luckily, my parents raised me right and I don't suck at life, so I'm not a very unhealthy person in terms of typology. I don't use women sexually, or any of the other stuff written in the quoted text... I don't really relate to that post. What I do relate to is the healthy and average type 8 descriptions.

 

[EJCC]

Ugh, I really don't like Naranjo. I just read his 1 description and it quoted all the cliches that I hate, especially those related to "puritanical" values and anal-retentiveness in the Freudian sense.

Doesn't surprise me that his 8 description would be as bad.

 

[kyuuei]

Ugh, I really don't like Naranjo. I just read his 1 description and it quoted all the cliches that I hate, especially those related to "puritanical" values and anal-retentiveness in the Freudian sense.

Doesn't surprise me that his 8 description would be as bad.

Seriously :c if anyone really thought and acted on even half of that they'd be, at best, a lousy member of society and dysfunctional.. I don't think I'd not be in jail somehow right now if I related to any of that.

 

[EJCC]

Seriously :c if anyone really thought and acted on even half of that they'd be, at best, a lousy member of society and dysfunctional.. I don't think I'd not be in jail somehow right now if I related to any of that.

It was definitely not a description of a healthy individual!

His 1 description says that 1s have an "autocratic style, a self-confident and dignified assertiveness, an aristocratic self-concept and a superior, haughty, disdainful and perhaps condescending and patronizing demeanor." That's me!

Edit: As I keep reading, he actually described my family dynamic with a creepy degree of accuracy: two parents who are, together, a combination of absent, demanding, and over-accommodating.

The rest of it is still too Freudian for me, though.

 

[garbage]

Yeah, the descriptions are supposed to pinpoint core neuroses--perhaps ones that we actually have but at a very, very subtle level. But if anyone actually relates to the descriptions at face value, they'd probably be put in a mental ward.

"too Freudian" is a good way to put it.

 

[EJCC]

Okay, [MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION], you've convinced me for now.

Part of why I've tended to be so resistant towards sp-dominance, is that almost every single description I read tends to emphasize physical and material well-being, in either a pseudo-agoraphobic sense or a 50's housewife sense -- neither of which I relate to. But I do relate to the description that I've just read, that compares Sp-dom Ones to Sixes:

Characterized by a tendency towards worry and negative anticipation, especially as it relates to material well-being. Can seem a little like Sixes. They fret about how to avoid making mistakes that could jeopardize survival.. Sense of being undeserving or inadequate - try to compensate with worry. As a parent or friend, they might be critical and nurturing by turns, wanting to protect you from the same negative consequences they worry about.

This is the kind of thing that I relate to: things that threaten my survival in the abstract sense, e.g. avoiding unnecessary stress, trying to maintain my mental health. Although I'm very, very serious about eating 3 meals a day -- a trait I share with Sp-dom [MENTION=6465]thealchemist[/MENTION].

So... if anyone has any objections to my re-typing as sp/so...?