[MBTI General] Mind Games for Attraction?

[nolla]

I found that when I am attracted to a particular man if I am too foward and accessible with my feelings, it's bad. It seems quite easy to attract men, on the other hand, whom I pay no mind to, and with whom I maintain my challenging personality.

Too forward is reeking of desperation, and desperate people are intolerable in the long run, so, it's probably that. But I think it is a little different from this subject. If you are self-sufficient and interested in someone, it will give a certain vibe. If you are desperate and interested, but try to show that you are self-sufficient, it gives a different vibe. So, if you don't want games, you pretty much have to be self-sufficient. These people telling other people to play games are actually saying "You are weak and you shouldn't let them know, so act bossy".

 

[skylights]

I learned to maintain an illusion because of my previous line of work, and would NEVER EVER throw out that level of game playing in my personal life to someone I was actually interested in...however, I found that when I am attracted to a particular man if I am too foward and accessible with my feelings, it's bad. It seems quite easy to attract men, on the other hand, whom I pay no mind to, and with whom I maintain my challenging personality.

Even in LTRs I've noticed that men tend to notice when I go away, or even intentionally ignore them.

Quite recently I "punished" someone by refusing to talk to him, and he came around seeking me afterward. This technique also worked with my ESFJ ex.

On the other hand, being too obviously admiring and pursuing a man openly appears to be some kind of turn off. I guess it looks bad to them, even if the real story is I'm still seeing other people. It doesn't matter if you're still maintaining your own life or even not keeping all your eggs in one basket...it just matters what it looks like, at least in the beginning.

ugh, don't you find it painful? i wish for the life of me i was better at the ignoring game. i'm shit at it. it drives me crazy inside and i usually break down and give in.

not to say i go overboard when i give up, but i usually end up making some little contact or smiling or whatever else that opens my door back up again. perhaps it's a good thing. never have i ever had anyone say to me that i seemed desperate - if anything, i have heard that i am somewhat aloof and send mixed messages - but i feel like my inability to just run away robs me of power.

(though, i should note, that i don't really fall for people until we know each other fairly well... so by that time... i really have something to lose if "ignoring" is interpreted the wrong way.)

 

[Thalassa]

Too forward can look desperate even if it's not. Sometimes people are too forward because they like someone in particular, and want to be honest. A person can be self-sufficient and still be too foward. I don't think you understand.

The best tactic is to maintain a certain distance in the beginning, with anyone. Forward honesty with men is a very, very bad idea.

It's not even like "act bossy", either. It's just that the woman needs to maintain control in the beginning. This is a must.

It's a natural dynamic between men and women which I've had much opportunity to deny, experiment with, and override...and in the end, my mother was right...the ones who like you the most are the ones you pretend to not like very much.

 

[Poki]

Mind games can be fun to peek interest. I dont really play any other games when it comes to attraction.(only put in for a safety measure as I cant think of any other mind games I play when it comes to attraction). All the other mind games I play have nothing to do with attraction. I dont play the games that most people play. I want to live a relationship and push it, not delay it. Most mind games I play are for fun, not attraction.

 

[nolla]

Too forward can look desperate even if it's not. Sometimes people are too forward because they like someone in particular, and want to be honest.

Too desperate is one of those things you don't know you are until you've already blown it.

 

[Thalassa]

ugh, don't you find it painful? i wish for the life of me i was better at the ignoring game. i'm shit at it. it drives me crazy inside and i usually break down and give in.

not to say i go overboard when i give up, but i usually end up making some little contact or smiling or whatever else that opens my door back up again. perhaps it's a good thing. never have i ever had anyone say to me that i seemed desperate - if anything, i have heard that i am somewhat aloof and send mixed messages - but i feel like my inability to just run away robs me of power.

(though, i should note, that i don't really fall for people until we know each other fairly well... so by that time... i really have something to lose if "ignoring" is interpreted the wrong way.)

No, it's not at all painful if you're actually maintaining control.

It's being out of control that is painful.

There's a balance to the push-pull, and any time I've decided "well, I'm just going to be honest and real and pursue this person openly" ...it.does.not.work.

Men don't like it when women chase them, I don't give a shit what they say. They whine about bitches because bitches are what they want.

That's not to say a woman should act bitchy in an actual relationship; to the contrary when you're actually in a relationship it's best to be supportive, vulnerable, and honest.

 

[Thalassa]

Too desperate is one of those things you don't know you are until you've already blown it.

I disagree. I think a person knows if they're being desperate. Desperate pretty much means "I'll take anybody."

 

[nolla]

Desperate also means "I have to have that one, no matter what it costs me"

 

[Thalassa]

Desperate also means "I have to have that one, no matter what it costs me"

I dunno. All someone has to do is tell me openly to fuck off and I lose interest. I think liking one particular person a lot may be obssessive, I don't categorize it as desperate.

At any rate, you say potAYto, I say potAHto.

 

[Orangey]

I think this would be better addressed in the Relationship's sub-section, but mind games exist with, or without intent. Honesty doesn't take someone off the hook. I'll elaborate further when this topic broadens beyond the NF extremes.

Most of the people who say they don't play mind games, are the biggest contributors.

Unless you have some sort of prior knowledge of the person we are biologically designed to make ourselves appear as desirable as possible in X amount of time. Those who say they don't do this and are 100% themselves from the start are either delusional, very unsuccessful at dating, or trying to hide the fact that they play them.

There is nothing wrong with trying to be presentable. Myself, personally, suck ass when I am trying to make myself appear suitable. Lol, it just makes me awkward. So I don't play any games, and I am also a failure at dating and relationships. It would be very rare that I naturally become in synch with another individual but that is fine.

People want to be attracted and stimulated by their partner. If you are not at least somewhat interesting.....its not going to last. You can't just stay in your own bubble and own form, without getting into the mind of the person you are interacting with...and you shouldn't be encouraged to do so either.

Yeah, I agree with these two posts.

Saying that you dislike mind games is itself a part of the game.

 

[nolla]

Saying that you dislike mind games is itself a part of the game.

So, everything is a game? Nothing is relatively more game than another?

 

[skylights]

in regards to the op... i don't like games in the sense that you know you're toying with another person, for the sake of your own benefit, but to some extent we all manipulate how much of ourselves and our feelings we show and how much we do not.

in that sense, i agree that you do not want to hide too much, because then the other person will never understand that you are interested, but you also do not want to show too much, because people are complex, multifaceted, and very different from one another. we have defense systems for our relational and emotional selves, and to fully open up either of those selves to someone else would be highly likely to engage the other's defenses, not to mention allowing ourselves to be very relationally and emotionally vulnerable. i feel like relationships are, if not a game, a dance. many tempos, many styles, but all about the push and pull between two people.

It's being out of control that is painful.

yeah. true. it probably always fails in my case because i've already forked a huge portion of control over my feelings to the other person.

edit - huh. upon reflection, i guess i create my own failsafe. smart, and yet really stupid all at once.

Desperate also means "I have to have that one, no matter what it costs me"

sometimes yes. other times, no. if you're fighting an obvious "no", then it would be desperate. if they are ambiguous or receptive, then it is, as marm said, perhaps obsessive, but perhaps also "devoted".

still, how many love stories depict the assertive pursuer and the rejecting pursued? even as modern as harry potter, look at james and lily. obviously my most important point being that harry potter wouldn't be around if it weren't for desperation.

 

[Thalassa]

So, everything is a game? Nothing is relatively more game than another?

You must know it's a game if you think openly liking one person looks "desperate."

Because many people fall in limerence or have a crush on one particular person. It's the being honest about it that's bad.

Furthermore, I thought about all the women who tell guys to go away, but just want to test him to see if he'll stick around and continue persuing her.

But apparently in reverse this is not the case. It's all like a huge experiment, like I said, and in the end I've come to the conclusion that the "old fashioned way" is quite effective.

 

[erm]

So, everything is a game? Nothing is relatively more game than another?

I was thinking that too. Seems like a semantic point rather than anything else. Twisting everything people do towards one another to fit "mind game" rather than looking at what the people are using the term to mean.

Mind games here seem to mean deliberate deception. It's certainly possible not to deliberately deceive people in the area of relationships. Difficult I'm sure, but definitely possible.

 

[Thalassa]

yeah. true. it probably always fails in my case because i've already forked all control over my feelings to the other person.



sometimes yes. other times, no. if you're fighting an obvious "no", then it would be desperate. if they are ambiguous or receptive, then it is, as marm said, perhaps obsessive, but perhaps also "devoted".

Exactly. It's an attempt to show someone - who is ambiguous, who has never said "I don't like you, I am not attracted to you, I only like you as a friend, and/or go the fuck away" or something along those lines - you are devoted (though it may begin to look obsessive, depending on the person...that's just the thing, too...some people are impressed by "devoted" and other people are scared by "obsessive" it actually depends on the person in question and their perceptions and comfort level with such behavior...some people LIKE IT.)

 

[rav3n]

Was going to post more but realised that this was in the NF realm so my apologies for intruding.

 

[Orangey]

So, everything is a game?

Yes.

Nothing is relatively more game than another?

No, but the "gaming" can be more or less transparent (i.e., bad.)

 

[nolla]

You must know it's a game if you think openly liking one person looks "desperate."

I know there is a game going on, but I'm not all that confident that everyone is playing it. To say everyone is playing, is still not saying everyone is playing it equally. If someone is playing the game of no game to protest the game, is he playing more or less? Does it have to be another layer of the game or is it about neutralizing the effect of the game?

What I mean is that this idea that everyone plays feels to me like "don't worry about being honest, because no one is".

 

[Giggly]

I don't think everyone plays games. But those who don't (i.e. are loving, open and honest) will look desperate and/or unattractive and will be ignored, dumped or get cheated on.

My older sister once told me "The one who loves the least controls the relationship".

It's true.

This is why I despise games, but as much as I wish they didn't exist, they do exist.

 

[nolla]

I don't think everyone plays games. But those who don't (i.e. are open and honest) will look desperate and unattractive and will be ignored, dumped or get cheated on.

Why is that a fact? I don't see nothing preventing this if you are being dishonest.

Besides, if you are honest to yourself you might end up doing those things. Except that if you cheated you would come clean about it and get dumped, probably.

My older sister once told me "The one who loves the least controls the relationship".

Yeah, control is really the problem. There is no openness where someone wants to have control over the other. The thing is you can't fight control with control. If you want openness there is no choice but to be open.