MBTI and Islam

[Spamtar]

That is it! Im gonna be a terrorist for MBTI Juuuuuuuuuggggggg!

(actually all good things are turned to shit so F doms can be manipulated into what T doms want them to do)

 

[corey_vann]

(actually all good things are turned to shit so F doms can be manipulated into what T doms want them to do)

HERE HERE!

 

[Riva]

So what do Islam and MBTI have in common?

Well, both MBTI and Islam are anti the Enlightenment. Both Islamic and MBTI thinking pre-date the Enlightenment. In other words both MBTI and Islam are intuitive rather than literate and counter-intuitive.
And being intuitive is half the appeal of both MBTI and Islam.

And neither MBTI nor Islam is open to rational discussion anymore than is astrology.

Wow,
You know, I do understand what you are trying to talk about. Especially the anti enlightenment and intuitive part.

But,
What is your intention of pointing these out to others? You seem to want to explain something, but your lack of focus is taking you somewhere which is nowhere.

Why don't you start a thread on this subject, people would understand what you are trying to say. And it is a much better action that shooting arrows in the dark.

Start a thread Victor. I want to hear what you are trying to say.

 

[simulatedworld]

lol victor is concerned about lack of openness to rational discussion

riiiiiiight

 

[Lark]

Islam, definitely is one of the most misinterpreted religions in the world.
Don't believe me?
Watch news............ Boooooooooooooooom!

"There goes another"​

Anyway, have you ever noticed how MBTI has and is been interpreted?
Misinterpreted here and there don't you think?

It's not that the theory is incorrect. It's the interpretations.

"Am I a INTJ, am I a ISFJ?"​

Are common questions we all ask. "But how could I be a INTJ if I have obvious Ne?. I must be a INTP then"

An INFJ would never do that.
An ISTP would never hug me.
An ESFJ would never understand.



You see what is happening?

The important thing to keep in mind is that shadow and psyche were important to Jung and its how he accounted for individuals behaving in ways which were contrary to the personality profile they had, which Jung thought was innate and unchangeable too, not that plastic or flexible.

So it could be denial or disownership of the shadow traits, unconscious and shadow over riding the conscious and psyche, which accounts for those personality profile exhibiting the traits of other personalities.

Then off course there's the sociological, cultural, anthropological and other social accounts for individual behaviour, whatever you believe I think that interpersonal social interaction has a powerful influence on innate character.

 

[Venom]

Well, both MBTI and Islam are anti the Enlightenment. Both Islamic and MBTI thinking pre-date the Enlightenment. In other words both MBTI and Islam are intuitive rather than literate and counter-intuitive.

And being intuitive is half the appeal of both MBTI and Islam.

And neither MBTI nor Islam is open to rational discussion anymore than is astrology.

In its inception, Islam was very pro science and knowledge. A lot of mathematics and other science comes from Arabic Islamic states during the European dark ages. While we are at it, the dark ages were also not really anti-enlightenment. The dark age churches were probably more of a light house for education and knowledge. The dark ages probably had more to do with the fall of civilization than religion. Similarly, Islam is not inherently anti-knowledge, its the fact that they did not rapidly progress since then, and now view the outside intrusion as an attack from outsiders. Outsiders could be secular or religious.

 

[Kambro]

Islam is a political religion that ... And neither MBTI nor Islam is open to rational discussion anymore than is astrology.

Yawn

 

[Kambro]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So true

 

[Kambro]

Well you've obviously never been to the middle east before. I believe Curzon is right. And you are one of those who misinterpret it. I have had many muslim friends, had lived in the middle east for a section of my life and had studied a great deal of religion. In conclusion, I have to say, what you're saying is quite ignorant.

Religions are interpreted generally by the people who claim to practice them. I have no problem with people practicing their own religion. I do have a problem with people confusing other people with a religion. Get your facts straight.

Love u man. so true

 

[Kambro]

There's definitely more of a tendency than to do this with Muslims than to do it with Christians. I loathe much of what's in Muslim holy texts, just as I loathe much of what's in the Bible (by the way, the Bible too commands the stoning of homosexuals and many other kinds of people, but because they're in the ingroup and therefore not viewed as homogenous, no one assumes that all Christians and Jews therefore must think stoning people is good), but I know that as the majority of Western Christians don't seem to know or care about most of what the Bible actually says, there's no rational reason to assume most Western Muslims know or believe literally what's in the Koran and Hadiths.

All four Muslims I've been friends with LIKE how liberal Europe is, that people can dress how they want and practice whichever religion they want, and had no time for the idea of forcing religion down people's throats via violence or even preaching as they didn't believe that you could go to Hell for not choosing the right religion. That's more of a live-and-let-live attitude than a lot of Western Christians have.

Agreed

 

[Kambro]

I've learnt something special about you Victor... about your mind.
edit: Please don't take this as a compliment. It's not

Agreed, one would think someone would learn to be rational. Victor sounds like a hypocrite to me. Apologies if this seems personal but really, attacking a religion for the flaws of individuals?:steam:

 

[Lark]

In its inception, Islam was very pro science and knowledge. A lot of mathematics and other science comes from Arabic Islamic states during the European dark ages. While we are at it, the dark ages were also not really anti-enlightenment. The dark age churches were probably more of a light house for education and knowledge. The dark ages probably had more to do with the fall of civilization than religion. Similarly, Islam is not inherently anti-knowledge, its the fact that they did not rapidly progress since then, and now view the outside intrusion as an attack from outsiders. Outsiders could be secular or religious.

I reckon that the political islamists are a little like some of the old style class warriors, they envy prosperity and attribute their lack thereof to oppression, yet are unwilling to do what is called for to create the same prosperity for themselves because it would seem like a betrayal of their first principles.

Unless there is integral to islam a rennaisance, enlightenment, reformation, secular revolutions and the counter currents of each, as occured integrally within the "Christian" or western world those necessary aspects of modernity will be perceived as alien and alienating, foreign, strange and threatening.

However it would a gross mistake to persume that there is anything like the supposed consensus in either the islamic world or its "other", ie us (if that in itself is not presumptious). Modernity has not been universally embraced, there is not also agreement as to what it means.

 

[Lark]

Agreed, one would think someone would learn to be rational. Victor sounds like a hypocrite to me. Apologies if this seems personal but really, attacking a religion for the flaws of individuals?:steam:

Religions can be flawed too but then generalisations can build walls rather than bridges.

 

[simulatedworld]

Victor's tertiary Ni (he is ISFP) goes absolutely nuts when it comes to Islam. Victor's such a fluffy bunny!

Edited by geoff to remove insult and aggressive behaviour

 

[wank]

Victor's tertiary Ni (he is ISFP) goes absolutely nuts when it comes to Islam. Blah blah fucking blah, it's an international conspiracy, whatever, idiot. Nobody cares.

You know, the fact that you seem so emotional about this totally gives credence to his trolling abilities. Because he is opposed to you, you have this pleasant confirmation bias of his 'type'[if you need explanation, I can give], further lending credence to his saying typology is crap. You make me smile

elsewhile: ...Still holdin' out to see some Islamic scripture for a referential base of various views.

 

[Jaguar]

<Victor is a fluffybunny!>

The man, the myth, the legend (in his own mind) has spoken!
Now that the bullshit is out of the way, Victor is a raging N.
Victor eats, sleeps, walks, and talks metaphor.


Now, go make me a dirty martini so I can be nice when reading your posts.
We have winds gusting at 40-50 m.p.h. right now,
and the damn lights keep going on and off like the synapses in your brain.

 

[Gerbah]

I reckon that the political islamists are a little like some of the old style class warriors, they envy prosperity and attribute their lack thereof to oppression, yet are unwilling to do what is called for to create the same prosperity for themselves because it would seem like a betrayal of their first principles.

I disagree with this. You have to see the Middle East in the context of its history of colonialism and the subsequent propping up by Western powers of puppet governments there. Not to mention the on-going occupation of Palestine. I disagree that “political Islamists” envy the West for its prosperity. There are a lot of pro-Western Arabs but the “political Islamists” especially do not envy the West. In my experience, many people from the West automatically assume that their way of life is the best way and that other people would be very happy to live like them and should envy them and they pity the poor Arabs, Asians or whatever because they aren't “free”. It's not true. There are millions of people who don't want to live like that and don't envy it.

 

[Gerbah]

Unless there is integral to islam a rennaisance, enlightenment, reformation, secular revolutions and the counter currents of each, as occured integrally within the "Christian" or western world those necessary aspects of modernity will be perceived as alien and alienating, foreign, strange and threatening.

I find this is a very common view in the West of how Islam is seen. Like looking at Islam and judging it through the lens of a very specific cultural context of the Catholic Church, the break from it of Protestants, the Enlightenment, etc. You cannot assume that Islam is the same as Christianity, that its presence in traditionally Islamic cultures and societies is the same as that of Christianity in its history. In traditionally Christian cultures Christianity stood for something backward, and leaving behind the irrationalities of Christian doctrine meant embracing “modernity”, “rationality” and “secularism”, etc. The links in these associations are hardly questioned by many people who think it's normal and just assume it. Islam of course did not develop in the same way, it has its own context and its teachings are different, although very similar in many ways to Christian ones. You can't just say that it should also go the way of the Rennaisance, the Enlightenment, etc. That just doesn't make sense.

 

[Mole]

Now, go make me a dirty martini so I can be nice when reading your posts.
We have winds gusting at 40-50 m.p.h. right now,
and the damn lights keep going on and off like the synapses in your brain.

Not a bad metaphor.

 

[Kambro]

... , further lending credence to his saying typology is crap. You make me smile ....

If its crap what the hell is he doing here. Typology is like anything else - a guide, principles but to interpreted as per the circumstances and situation.

As a borderline J/P my behaviour will not fit into a neat pigeonhole. Same as my ENTJ friend with a low E. Different ratings for J's will mean different reactions to same situation etc..