mass shooting in Germany (Likely far right)

[Warrior]

Germany shooting: eight dead in Hanau attack – live news | World news | The Guardian

 

[Maou]

But I thought guns were banned? How could this happen in such a progressive nation?

 

[Red Herring]

But I thought guns were banned? How could this happen in such a progressive nation?

Wut????

Where did you hear that?

1. Guns are legal in Germany and always have been. They are just more closely regulated than in the USA and are much less part of the culture.
2. We have a lower murder rate, fewer gun death, less gang violence and fewer civilians getting killed by cops as well as fewer cops getting killed by civilians, thank you very much!
3. Germany is mostly a center-right country by Europeans standards. Merkel is a conservative and most governments of the last 70+ years were conservative. We just look progressive by the standards of the American right

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

^Germany has always had a strong conservative slant compared to some of their neighbors.

American conservatism is a strange animal that isn’t really comparable to other cultures’ conservatism. I’ve often said I’d be a conservative if I lived in any other western developed nation

 

[ceecee]

But I thought guns were banned? How could this happen in such a progressive nation?

lol No.

 

[Vendrah]

^Germany has always had a strong conservative slant compared to some of their neighbors.

American conservatism is a strange animal that isn’t really comparable to other cultures’ conservatism. I’ve often said I’d be a conservative if I lived in any other western developed nation

Actually, its quite comparable to brazilian conservatism.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Actually, its quite comparable to brazilian conservatism.

From what I've read, their brand actually seems more extreme, though likely because their system lacks some of the checks and balances USA has to prevent total executive control over societal institutions. Therefore American conservatism has been forced to be more obstructionist in practice, more reactionary and deconstructive, focused on dismantling.

 

[Red Herring]

Actually, its quite comparable to brazilian conservatism.

That's probably why Bolsonaro keeps getting compared to Trump (only Bolsonaro is openly pro-torture and pro-military dictatorship)

 

[Virtual ghost]

Actually, its quite comparable to brazilian conservatism.

From what I have seen, yes.
Although in my book that is simply the case with most ex-colonies that came out of colonialism. Because colonies have weak institutions almost by definition and therefore there are more loose ends and the cases of taking justice into your own hands.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

From what I have seen, yes.
Although in my book that is simply the case with most ex-colonies that came out of colonialism. Because colonies have weak institutions almost by definition and therefore there are more loose ends and the cases of taking justice into your own hands.

Australia might be an exception. They're a fair bit more progressive than some of their counterparts in the Americas

 

[Virtual ghost]

Australia might be an exception. They're a fair bit more progressive than some of their counterparts in the Americas

That is why I said "most", since this isn't black and white issue.
However all ex-colonies seem to generally be more loosely governed than countries that exist for quite some time.

 

[Vendrah]

From what I've read, their brand actually seems more extreme, though likely because their system lacks some of the checks and balances USA has to prevent total executive control over societal institutions. Therefore American conservatism has been forced to be more obstructionist in practice.

From what I know from United States politics, yes, brazilian far right is more radical than USA´s far right.
Brazilian society does have checks and balances to prevent total executive control over some societal institutions, however Bolsonaro does have a lot of followers that are in charge and can influence societal institutions without Bolsonaro needing to move.

That's probably why Bolsonaro keeps getting compared to Trump (only Bolsonaro is openly pro-torture and pro-military dictatorship)

If he is pro-military dictatorship, well he openly is. The torture part, however, it is forbidden through the constitution because Brazil signs a few international law "treaty", and being pro-torture is against the law, even though politicians does actually have more privilege into what they say (they have some immunity because their 'political opinion' can surpass some law, meaning that there were Bolsonaro moves where a citizen would be sued but Bolsonaro wasnt because he had that privilege at that time). But not to the point where he can even be openly pro-torture, that would be against a very fundamental part of the Brazilian constitution. So, officially he isnt pro-torture, but actually... Actually nobody can truly ever knows, but I think he is.

 

[Vendrah]

From what I have seen, yes.
Although in my book that is simply the case with most ex-colonies that came out of colonialism. Because colonies have weak institutions almost by definition and therefore there are more loose ends and the cases of taking justice into your own hands.

Its not a matter of weaker institutions, its deeper than that.
In paper, some brazilian institutions are strong and indepenent. In paper...

EDIT: Ops, double post.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Its not a matter of weaker institutions, its deeper than that.
In paper, some brazilian institutions are strong and indepenent. In paper...

EDIT: Ops, double post.

Yes, but I don't count paper but practice.
In my book ex-colonies are simply more lose and into "find the opportunity" mindset. While the institutional thinking/mindset simply isn't too deeply developed or it can be more easily "overlooked".

 

[Vendrah]

Yes, but I don't count paper but practice.
In my book ex-colonies are simply more lose and into "find the opportunity" mindset. While the institutional thinking/mindset simply isn't too deeply developed or it can be more easily "overlooked".

Yep, that mindset even hit me yesterday.

It is good to note that US and Canada are ex-colonies as well. However, from what I remember from History classes from my childhood and teens years, US and Canada were colonies made to run away from "religious pursuit". Some of my history teachers even said that the old liberalism (Im talking about the old one, not the free-market stuff) was high in US and Canada because of that.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Wut????

Where did you hear that?

1. Guns are legal in Germany and always have been. They are just more closely regulated than in the USA and are much less part of the culture.
2. We have a lower murder rate, fewer gun death, less gang violence and fewer civilians getting killed by cops as well as fewer cops getting killed by civilians, thank you very much!
3. Germany is mostly a center-right country by Europeans standards. Merkel is a conservative and most governments of the last 70+ years were conservative. We just look progressive by the standards of the American right

I believe [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION] just Donald Trumped you:

>Make exaggerated statement
>Let fact checkers check facts
>The facts end up disproving the premise of the target of the exaggerated statement originally made

So your facts actually help the pro-gun side.

 

[Yuurei]

But I thought guns were banned? How could this happen in such a progressive nation?

“Innocent people are dead, what better time to bring up my personal political beliefs”

No shame, no standards, no morals at all.

I believe [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION] just Donald Trumped you:

>Make exaggerated statement
>Let fact checkers check facts
>The facts end up disproving the premise of the target of the exaggerated statement originally made

So your facts actually help the pro-gun side.

But worst all, the troll has been fed and will never leave.

YouTube

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I believe [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION] just Donald Trumped you:

>Make exaggerated statement
>Let fact checkers check facts
>The facts end up disproving the premise of the target of the exaggerated statement originally made

So your facts actually help the pro-gun side.

I don't see how; the only thing it does is make the person making the claim look like they don't know what I'm talking about. But Trump doesn't appeal to me, anyway.

Since Germany has guns, this does nothing to bolster the claim that "even if we ban guns, mass shooting will still happen." I think that's probably actually true, but I think we'd see a lot less of them.

Although, there's also a part of me that is lukewarm on gun control anyway. If we really do get another civil war, I'd like my side to be armed as well.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

I don't see how

It’s aiiight.

Although, there's also a part of me that is lukewarm on gun control anyway. If we really do get another civil war, I'd like my side to be armed as well.

Aloha! Get your Hawaiian shirt ready for the big luau!

 

[Red Herring]

I believe [MENTION=37565]Maou[/MENTION] just Donald Trumped you:

>Make exaggerated statement
>Let fact checkers check facts
>The facts end up disproving the premise of the target of the exaggerated statement originally made

So your facts actually help the pro-gun side.

I am aware that this was their intention but don't think they got that result.

I clearly stated that we have stricter regulations and guns are less ingrained in culture without banning them completely AND that (as a corollary?) we have better crime statistics as well as more trust in the police and a less violent police force, etc. All of that in a conservative country, so these aren't leftwing measures and it's no leftwing culture.

The ridiculous strawman claim that no sane person ever really made in the first place is disproven but how on earth do my facts make MAGA look good?

You know that joke about heart attack and the Mediterranean diet and the French proving how it's not eating healthy that saves you but speaking English that kills you? I think the USA would profit from stricter gun control but in my eyes the real problem is cultural. All this violence and mistrust of your own fellow citizens and your own police force, this misguided believe in John Wayne or Rambo style selfprotection as a one man army, the talk about stand your ground .. it's the dark side and the logical consequence of rugged individualism and American values. At least that's my outsider perspective.