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Lord of the Rings TV series

Totenkindly

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I'm not entirely sure if one can gauge off the "popular" scoring sites out there because of the concerted effort to review bomb the series. Word of mouth (at least what I've heard) is actually far better than scoring sites they refer to.

However, having seen three episodes of "House of the Dragon" and two episodes of this show (after having not really asked for either), I would have to say that the former is better written and produced and acted IMO if one feels the need to compare.

I get the impression both shows are better than Wheel of Time.

I enjoyed Rings of Power so far about as much as I enjoyed the first two episodes of The Witcher.

None of them are in the same class as Better Call Saul or Breaking Bad or Six Feet Under or Severance, etc.
 

SearchingforPeace

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GoT first few seasons were pretty much up there with the best of TV. That HotD is even close to that level is amazing.

I liked the Witcher well enough, but it wasn't the same quality and is a huge drop off from the best of TV standard. HotD is better than that so far.

WoT should be canceled and the rights returned. Maybe in 20 years someone could do it right.

RoP is better than WoT, but it seems like its ceiling is the Witcher, which isn't bad, but......

A lot of hard-core Witcher fans didn't like the show much. I read the books, but didn't play the video games. It was good enough, but....

RoP is making huge changes that didn't need to be made, which is a problem. Maybe it will improve, but.... it feels like fanfic that almost any fan could improve upon.
 

Totenkindly

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GoT first few seasons were pretty much up there with the best of TV. That HotD is even close to that level is amazing.

I liked the Witcher well enough, but it wasn't the same quality and is a huge drop off from the best of TV standard. HotD is better than that so far.

WoT should be canceled and the rights returned. Maybe in 20 years someone could do it right.

RoP is better than WoT, but it seems like its ceiling is the Witcher, which isn't bad, but......

A lot of hard-core Witcher fans didn't like the show much. I read the books, but didn't play the video games. It was good enough, but....

RoP is making huge changes that didn't need to be made, which is a problem. Maybe it will improve, but.... it feels like fanfic that almost any fan could improve upon.
yes, that sounds about right.

And I agree on GoT -- I consider the first four seasons to be some of the best TV I've seen as well.

I didn't read the Witcher or play the video games. I was kind of curious about the show but obviously I haven't really gotten hooked enough to get through a season. It felt kind of like a more polished version of Xena or something. (But maybe I'm wrong, I really didn't watch Xena much either.)

I'm kind of watching RoP because of interest in Tolkien and just being willing to make the time, but I can't say I am feeling compelled to watch like I was with early GoT. I had made the comment about fanfic in my early comments too, it feels like really expensive fan fic that you would have simply been reading online twenty years ago before prestige TV became a thing. Like, what happens if we rearrange some of the characters and places and throw in some additional elements, what kind of story could we make up?
 

yeghor

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I've never warmed up to the Witcher games or the tv series, Witcher feels like an aggressive dick in the games, the machismo becomes too obnoxious for me, and Henry Cavill plays him too woodenly in the series, I think they should've gone for someone truly primally aggressive.

They also throw in terminology like "You are bound with the rule of blah blah, ha ha ha" etc that don't make any sense to someone who hasn't been exposed to the game or the novel and it is too slow-paced.

Rings Of Power Shills BLAST The Critical Drinker & Amazon Makes PROMISE To Fix Galadriel!
 

yeghor

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LLoyd Owen reminds me of Marc Singer for some reason.

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Vendrah

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I watched it today so I wanna give my own opinions here.

 
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Totenkindly

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Episode 3 was better. Still an occasional piece of dumbassery (the symbol of Sauron reveal felt somewhat like the stupid dagger from TROS, although I guess since the symbol itself is the message, it's marginally passable), and again we see an elf doing somewhat superman-like maneuvers, even if he doesn't actually know how to properly use an axe to chop down a tree. (Then again, whenever did a Sylvan elf ever learn how to chop down a tree?)

The pre-hobbits are not as kind as we might have assumed, the migrators do have a "leave stragglers" behind policy that apparently has resulted in some significant losses over time. I actually like this; it also gives more understanding of how third age hobbits took comfort and pleasure in having an established permanent home, even if a bit too homebody-ish.

The dialogue wasn't as clumsy as e2, although still not top-notch. However, we get the idea that Numenor has both pro-elf and anti-elf factions, and it'll be interesting as a mystery to see how that resolves. The same goes for the real identity of Halbrand, where there are a few possibilities... and also who Aran is, of the title, who didn't really look like an orc.

Also, why the orcs building tunnels? Is it a stupid plot point or is it actually thought out? These orcs are actually vulnerable to sunlight, so some reasons exist. Meanwhile, these prisoner elves really suck in terms of knowing how to join forces for a fight.

I was reminded of our discussion of horses and women in the Feminism thread this week on the forum, as we see Galadriel smile broadly for maybe the FIRST TIME in this series as she is riding in a dress in a cheesy panning shot across fields and along the shores on the back of a beautiful and majestic horse. Tell me again the trope doesn't exist? She's almost hitting existential bliss in this montage.

Again, I have more of a view of this as somewhat enjoyable fan-fic and am not expecting it to hew specifically to Tolkien's main versions of his characters and lore.
 
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Totenkindly

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Comments on some of Vendrah's points.

 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I don't feel like Tolkien much focused on skin color in his writing. He was just writing a story which had a lot of Germanic and Norse elements, so he was coming from a particular background; he wasn't really thinking sociopolitically. The world has changed a lot since then and his stories are now global, so of course they would seek to incorporate more diversified elements as part of connecting with a global audience.

I did find it interesting that the section in the Silmarillion on Numenor had an anti-imperialist subtext. Something about how they came to the shores of Middle Earth at first to teach but then it just became about domination. I'm paraphrasing here.
 

yeghor

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I do find it funny they turned Galadriel into a mildly racist horse girl.
Probably one of the producers is projecting their personality characteristics onto Galadriel for self-aggrandization and having and ego-rush whenever they see her on TV.
 
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Totenkindly

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Probably one of the producers is projecting their personality characteristics onto Galadriel for self-aggrandization and having and ego-rush whenever they see her on TV.
Yeah. That's got to be it.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Having read the books, I won't subject myself to watching Amazon wear Tolkien's legacy as a skin suit in an effort squeeze one more dollar out of our childhood nostalgia.
 

yeghor

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Like this scene from the triology as well.

Aragorn's Coronation

 
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yeghor

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Yeah. That's got to be it.
It's the producer's story of how they were a priveleged chauvinistic white male and then they matured, got enlightened and become more feminine and woke.

The fans hating macho Galadriel will have to come to terms with their own machismo cause it was themselves they were hating all along, and then they will become wiser and woke too, just as the producer did.

They are projecting their own story on Galadriel. The problem is Galadriel in LoTR was never a hypermasculine supremacist person to begin with. My understanding is that she was more of an ambitious leader with thirst for knowledge first than a warrior. What set her apart from her Elven peers was she displayed greater wisdom. In DnD terms, she had more of a Druid/Witch quality and progression to her character than a Warrior/Fighter.

Moreover, Elves were introduced as more spiritually aware beings than humans in LoTR, less concerned with material wealth as they don't age and die of ageing, so they are less in a hurry than men, less destructive on their environment, basically wiser than humans and calmer and less anxious as time and death are not an issue.

The Elves were like Ainur in spirit; they loved all beauty of nature, especially water, the Sea and the stars, since they were the first things they saw; as a consequence Ulmo and Varda were the Ainur closest to them. They were marked by an insatiable curiosity and a desire of learning and creating.

They detested all evil and were usually more resistant to being corrupted than Men, unless evil tricked them with fair form, like Annatar.
Conversely, their work harmed evil, like lembas and the Elven rope that brought pain to Gollum's skin. They were, however, susceptible to greed, pride and jealousy, as exemplified by the story of the House of Fëanor, or the jealous and unjustified hatred of Saeros toward Túrin. [24]

So them making Galadriel a hypermasculine smug brute just to tell men that they should evolve like her too is a bit of hijacking the original character for one's own ends.
 
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