LGBT Athletes and Sport

[Omission1234]

Hey everyone,
Just wondering what everyone's take is on LGBT athletes.

1. I find across most of Canada and the United States the issues with discrimination, hate crimes towards lgbt athletes are still prevelant.

2. Some say people should just focus on the sport and thats that. I think your personal life and sports are one in the same.

3. alot of athletes on scholarships keep their sexuality hidden to stay on teams and coaches aswell. More so in the United States.

4. There is the issue of group/ team dynamics aswell. some say the dynamic either grows because of trust or weakens due to homophobia. ( depends on where you live)

5. Also its hard for lgbt athletes to identify with regular lgbt groups due to stereotypes, interests and activities not the same or revolving around sports( which many athletes lives do)

6. Also do you think there are stereotypes that prevent lgbt athletes from coming out, or even continuing participating in sports??

7. I've seen this as a major issue throughout the U.S and in Canadian clubs its taboo subject where its always shoved under the rug. Just wondering other peoples take on it. There isnt alot of research done on it, I've read all the scholarly texts in my university library. I also find it interesting because there arent really any lectures done on this topic in the physical education department either. When I know there are alot of lgbt people in the department.

8. I see it in many ways as the last wall in lgbt discrimination and hate crimes. Mainly due to gender stereotypes, sports traditions and the seperated world of sports.


I'd love to hear your opinions on sports/ gym/ lgbt etc etc..

 

[Omission1234]

Side note: in addition to number 7, the subject is taboo, but homophobic comments are said in my opinion to reinforce gender roles and sport stereotypes.

 

[Totenkindly]

I haven't thought much about this particular angle in detail, but what I would wish for is a world where we don't have to talk continuously about LGBT issues because they would have become accepted and treated no differently than being hetero or gender-typical. Where people could talk about their het spouse/SO or their gay spouse/SO and have no one bat an eye or treat them any differently. So Johnny Weir's gay. Big deal. (You know?) Or guys on the football team won't get all weirded out just because so-and-so is gay. Sexual preference is completely unrelated to the sport, so aside from being able to say, "yes, gay people are active within <a certain sport at expert levels>," what's the point of dragging any sort of preference into things?

I think trans issues in sports are slightly different in terms of natural performance levels, especially if someone is not hormonally adjusted for a lengthy period of time to their self-identified gender, and events that are impacted by the participant's size also would give transpeople an advantage or disadvantage from the normal mean within their self-identified gender. The reality is that events are split up right now by gender because men DO outperform women in some athletic activities (and vice versa) simply due to biological constraints, so it seems fair to say it might be an unequal advantage for transpeople to participate in a particular event. It depends on the event and the person in question.

I do think it's far easier to come out today, in Western culture, than it has ever been in the past, regardless of one's L, G, B, or T status. Hopefully that will continue to improve until it's about as equitable as being a particular religion or of a particular race and/or cultural heritage.

 

[Omission1234]

In reply to Jennifer:

- Me too, I wish it was a non issue and non sub category, but this is still a huge issue. People are still getting fired from coaching jobs in the United States for being suspected of being gay and athletes aswell. Yes I think with the similar issues with trans people, it still comes from lack of exposure and presence of lgbt athletes. Trans people I think it does come down to hormone levels pretty much. I find there isnt alot of information of trans athletes ( in the little to none lgbt information).

- Yeah there were studies more popular i think from the last olympics or world championships due to the sprinter?? South Africa's Caster Semenya. I think she is a hermaphrodite???I could be totally wrong. But I think they did multiple test in hormones etc to see if she qualified in the womens category based on general estrogen and testosterone levels of other female sprinters in her division.

But yeah totally agree with ya on that.

 

[Omission1234]

my bad she is intersexed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

 

[swordpath]

Pretty lame that people make a big deal about this stuff. I wouldn't even mention it to your team, just because it's a non-issue, IMO.

 

[Omission1234]

In reply to Ignite:

really? I find that hard to agree with. I know there are tons of other athletes who would get kicked off their teams for being gay... so i dont see that as a non issue. Its discrimination. There is also alot of teams where they continually say homophobic comments and "jokes" ( which doesnt help the environment) Plus being on a team and spending most of your day with team mates = sharing life details and being able to trust them in any situation. Keeping that part of your life from them is hard to constantly do on a day to day..

I see what your saying as ... there shouldnt be a need to mention it. I would agree with this if it wasnt an issue.

 

[swordpath]

Oh, well in the case that you're building close friendships with some of these people sure... but that can be left to personal time, right? If you want to share it with friends whom you trust, by all means, but why declare it to the team entity?

 

[Omission1234]

well in my personal situation- im close with all 28 of my teammates, male and female. We've rowed together for 4 years up to 7 years. also i think them knowing will create less homophobic discussions ( you can say to my face, but i think visibility is educating) and its almost impossible to have personal time completely seperate from rowing time. In rowing too you row with everyone and I personally dont have much to hide.

- Im wondering do you see this as sharing too much information? Like along the same lines as when people discuss private matters and relationship details?

- I dont know if thats the view? I could be reading your comment wrong?

But if so I dont see sexuality as something that needs or should be discussed in private ( in all cases). I can see if you beleive its a non issue, then leave it as a non issue and dont bring it up. But seeing how lgbt is not in the heteronormative day to day , why would I leave it undisclosed when I'm not ashamed and I dont see it as too much information.. its just who I like to date. you know?

- I think I can see where your coming from, but I think sports teams are like most athletes second families and who doesnt want to build friendships with their team mates and discuss their lives. Otherwise their isnt the most crucial social aspect of sports. Yes sport very game/ rules and physical oriented and is what the specific sport entails. But the social aspect is undeniably a major part of the sport.

I hope that made sense... and if i misunderstood your comment let me know and sorry if i did.

 

[Beargryllz]

Haters gonna hate. If not one part of a person's private life, then another, for haters will always hate.

 

[Omission1234]

here are some videos from the past 5 years

 

[Randomnity]

There's a big big difference between LGB and T for this situation, since a lot of sports are separated by physical gender (for excellent reasons, mostly), so that's definitely a sticky situation to navigate, especially once you get into hormone treatments and so on. Is that what you wanted to focus on? It's kinda pointless to lump it in with LGB since the situations are so different.

Any difficulties for LGB would mostly be the same old ones as in normal life. Despite the jock stereotype, pretty much all of the many people who I've played (adult) sports with are very very nice and accepting people whom I can't imagine ever getting worked up over finding out someone was (shock horror) gay. I live in a pretty liberal place, though, especially compared to some areas in the states, so YMMV.

As far as what to do (for LGB, again T would be a different situation) , I wouldn't recommend saying "I'm gay!!!!!!" for no reason, unless it's normal for people to go around saying "I'm straight!!!!!!!". That's kinda awkward for everyone involved! I mean, unless it's relevant to the conversation like someone is trying to set you up with someone. "Actually, I'm more interested in guys/girls " or whatever. No need to make a big deal of it - if you're casual about it, that's probably the reaction you'll get in return. Not that I'm an expert or anything (or LGB/etc for that matter).

 

[Randomnity]

although you might want to feel out your team a little first (not literally lol) especially if you're a male on all-male sports teams, since some environments can be particularly hostile to gay men and you don't want to put yourself in an unsafe situation, at least not unknowingly.

edit: or your coach/employer/whatnot if you're on a more professional than recreational sort of sports team, and are worried about getting fired.

but yes, it's dumb that you need to think about that stuff, and hopefully one day it will be a non-issue.

 

[Kasper]

Oh, well in the case that you're building close friendships with some of these people sure... but that can be left to personal time, right? If you want to share it with friends whom you trust, by all means, but why declare it to the team entity?

That's the attitude that is rife within the AFL (Australian Football League), keep your mouth shut for your sake as you will be sledged if people know, that imo is a terrible attitude to take. There are those who want to be in the closet, there are those who do not and they should not have to keep their sexuality a secret for the comfort of other people.

It's about authenticity.

"Real progress will come when we do not shrug our shoulders and pretend homosexuality is an issue of no relevance, but neither do we vigorously coerce people to ''out'' themselves"

"While there may be enormous relief and psychological benefit for the individual in being able to live more authentically when their sexuality is known, the push for someone to ''come out'' also has the undeniable connotation of branding that person as the ''other'' - someone who is not like us"

There are no out gay current or former players in the AFL.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...me-is-not-about-coming-out-20100516-v6b1.html

 

[Totenkindly]

- Me too, I wish it was a non issue and non sub category, but this is still a huge issue. People are still getting fired from coaching jobs in the United States for being suspected of being gay and athletes aswell. Yes I think with the similar issues with trans people, it still comes from lack of exposure and presence of lgbt athletes. Trans people I think it does come down to hormone levels pretty much. I find there isnt alot of information of trans athletes ( in the little to none lgbt information).

Hormones DO impact muscle mass a great deal, as well as body function... but when you are operating at Olympic level caliber, where world class scores are separated by very very minute values, I think it probably has more influence than you realize depending on the sport. However, on the amateur level, probably not a lot of difference; and maybe not even on a professional level per se. Still, it is a question many sports have had to ask, since there are highly qualified transpeople now operating in those categories of excellence. (Nong Tum in kickboxing; Michelle Dumaresq in professional mountain biking; Mianne Bagger in professional golf; etc.) Various sports associations typically have to make some sort of ruling nowadays on how transgender athletes will be defined and what categories of competition they will be placed in.

- Yeah there were studies more popular i think from the last olympics or world championships due to the sprinter?? South Africa's Caster Semenya. I think she is a hermaphrodite???I could be totally wrong. But I think they did multiple test in hormones etc to see if she qualified in the womens category based on general estrogen and testosterone levels of other female sprinters in her division.

Yeah, that's one of the most recent cases to feature prominently in the mainstream dialogue.

What I heard through my circle of contacts was that she had been genetically tested positive as intersexed, which isn't necessarily hermaphrodite in terms of what that word suggests about the gross organs. Intersexed conditions could simply involve a XY phenotype that is androgen-insensitive (for example). It does seem pretty clear that, whatever she has, this is who she has been all her life... so it seems unfair to punish her for it now. To balance out what I said earlier, there is some degree of variation in the range of women and the range of men -- who might decide that one woman who naturally has far more testosterone than another woman is now possessing an "unfair advantage?" It is obvious that the categories are gray and blurry, rather than clear and definable.

Physical gender might seem clear for a majority percentage of the population, but I think the frequency of SOME intersex condition is 1 in 500 births, which is four times more likely than the most common genetic illness cystic fibrosis. There's a lot of variation out in the world. (The best story I heard is in a tribe where some of the females are actually males in terms of genetics, and when they hit puberty, the hormonal wash actually takes what looks pretty much female and alters it -- they actually grow a penis, etc., develop like men, voice drops, and they take a masculine role in society. Pretty wild stuff!)

well in my personal situation- im close with all 28 of my teammates, male and female. We've rowed together for 4 years up to 7 years. also i think them knowing will create less homophobic discussions ( you can say to my face, but i think visibility is educating) and its almost impossible to have personal time completely seperate from rowing time. In rowing too you row with everyone and I personally dont have much to hide.

- Im wondering do you see this as sharing too much information? Like along the same lines as when people discuss private matters and relationship details?

I think everyone's situation is different. You are in an environment where your preference is difficult to hide, and you are also very close due to the bonding of your shared sport. Those can be ideal situations because in rowing you HAVE to depend on each other (some other teams you can exclude/ignore people, but rowing is an all or none effort), so people are inclined to accept, aren't they, if they want to excel?

But if so I dont see sexuality as something that needs or should be discussed in private ( in all cases). I can see if you beleive its a non issue, then leave it as a non issue and dont bring it up. But seeing how lgbt is not in the heteronormative day to day , why would I leave it undisclosed when I'm not ashamed and I dont see it as too much information.. its just who I like to date. you know?

I think it's an individual decision, just as much as coming on an online forum and telling people you're gay. The more information one puts out, the more chance for acceptance but the more chance for rejection and/or some sort of reprisal. It's just a calculated risk that each person has to make for themselves.

Along with that, there's also the "larger acceptance" thing -- the more gay and trans people that are willing to put themselves out there, the more culture will see the diversity and realize how many people actually identify as gay or trans... people they actually respect. So this makes it potentially more likely for culture to change to accommodate LGBT members; you can hide your preferences/identity to protect yourself but then are not contributing potentially to the expansion of cultural opinion.

Again, personal choice.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

This thread caught my eye because I just read an article about this yesterday in Scientific American. Here’s part of it:

A female athlete with hyperandrogenism who has testosterone levels in the male range (as measured by a blood test) will not be eligible to compete as a woman. The IOC has not yet decided on the cut-off levels, but the normal range of total testosterone for an adult premenopausal women is typically defined as 15-70 nanograms per deciliter, compared with 260-1,000 nanograms per deciliter for a man.

There are exceptions, though. The most common cause of extreme hyperandrogenism is androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS). In these cases, an embryo is genetically male but lacks a fully functioning receptor for testosterone, so does not respond normally to the hormonal signal to become male. In typical cases, she develops as a female -- although with internal testes instead of ovaries. The IOC and IAAF concluded that, because such women are resistant to androgens, they gain no competitive advantage from their high testosterone levels and have exempted them from the ban.

"If you have AIS, you should still be able to compete," says Malcolm Collins, a medical biochemist specializing in sports medicine at the University of Cape Town, who was not involved in drawing up the guidelines.

Women with testosterone levels that are high but below the male range - as commonly occurs with conditions such as polycystic ovary syndrome - would also be unaffected by the ban.

The IOC says that an athlete banned from female competition under these regulations would not be eligible to compete as a male

.

Even though I can understand the reasoning behind it, that last line struck me as being kind of messed up. Maybe not so much messed up as just unfortunate, in a “sucks to be you” kind of way.

As for the LGB part of the op, I’m with the people who have said that it shouldn’t have to be kept a secret. The amount of disclosure should totally be up to the individual.

 

[Totenkindly]

This thread caught my eye because I just read an article about this yesterday in Scientific American. Here’s part of it:

Thanks for that! (The detail underlying the sort of concepts I was describing earlier.) Yeah, AIS means that no male development pathway was really ever entered that would impact sports, the testosterone might as well not even be present because the body can't pick up on it.

Even though I can understand the reasoning behind it, that last line struck me as being kind of messed up. Maybe not so much messed up as just unfortunate, in a “sucks to be you” kind of way.

That was definitely the statement that seemed most unfair and prejudicial to me. If they can't compete with women because they're branded as "men" for the purposes of the sport in question, then why can't they compete as men? I mean, it's terribly likely they wouldn't want to be labeled as "men" at all, and thus would decline voluntarily, but for there to be a prohibition seems markedly prejudicial.

 

[Xenon]

This thread caught my eye because I just read an article about this yesterday in Scientific American. Here’s part of it:

Even though I can understand the reasoning behind it, that last line struck me as being kind of messed up. Maybe not so much messed up as just unfortunate, in a “sucks to be you” kind of way.

I was following that Caster Semenya story in 2009. I've been wondering what happened to her. Interesting she's been cleared to compete now; I didn't think she would be. I remember in a couple articles they were guessing she might have incomplete AIS, which means her body does respond to testosterone, although not enough for normal male development. Hence the masculine appearance and voice.

And yeah, it makes no sense that an athlete banned from the women's category wouldn't be allowed to compete with the men either. Why would they need to forbid that?

 

[Betty Blue]

Side note: in addition to number 7, the subject is taboo, but homophobic comments are said in my opinion to reinforce gender roles and sport stereotypes.

I don't think it should be announced but at the same time i also don't think it should be hidden. Certainly should not be taboo.
I agree with the bolded to a degree, i think a lot of these comments are also made out of fear and ignorance.
If it is a particular issue within a team then the manager should deal with it and reinforce equality stances and discrimination acts... team bonding and positive reinforcements all round. Educating the ignorant always helps.

 

[Omission1234]

Hey everyone again, sorrry I am so late replying back to this thread I had final exams and now I'm completely finished! and then I had a few paintings to do soooo now I'm back on the interweb!

- I didn't realize so many more people replied. excellent!
- about everyones opinions about telling your team or not, I totally agree with alot of your views, its a personal decison. I would never say anyone should come out just for numbers and soley for recognition. I believe people will come out when and if they want and its totally personal alot of people dont even feel the need to have a label of sexuality because its on a spectrum and thats cool too. I just wanted to look into some issues in the sports world and I've heard and read alot about lgbt athletes.

- I dont know where to start soooo I'll do a few questions:

- does anyone think there are other issues in sports with lgbt athletes?
- is anyone here an athlete lgbt or not>? views?

- Alsoooo what are some of your favorite sports?!