[ENFJ] Let's all say mean things about ENFJs.

[pinkgraffiti]

sorry, i don't know much. i remember my father saying when he met my mother he felt a partner in her by her ability to link and interpret things (i guess Ni that they both share) and my mum thought my dad was out of the ordinary and a more interesting man that the ones she'd been with before. so i guess it started off as an intellectual link. but i might be wrong, it's just what i can recall from their conversations....

Bolded is absolutely perfect INTJ-ENFJ interaction lol.
I've been curious of the dynamic as of late, as well as my INTJ who just started going with an ENFJ-lady. I see potential for an interesting understanding of one another's motivations and ability to keep one another in check, but also potential for emotional disconnect. I'd suppose that a good enough foundation between the two parties would allow for tapping in and figuring out for maximum potential.
The passion is also another curiosity. Do you know anything of when their relationship was young and fairly new?

You jerk!

Mm your issue here is not realizing that ENFJ wants you in the cage. We may have sharp claws and pointy teeth, but our opposable thumbs will keep you on lockdown! We are the keepers

 

[Elfboy]

ENFJ girls are particularly good at manipulating most men.

That is of course, until they've met an ENTP with developed Ne+Ti.

actually they're least effective on TJs and ENFPs with strong Te. unhealthy ENFJs attempt to manipulate people's emotions to get them to feel something strongly and act irrationally. with TJs are FPs with strong Te, that's just not how we make decisions. Fi can easily spot insincerity and mal-intent while Te makes decisions based of of facts, practical logic and systems. also, Sp/Sx are probably the hardest of the instinctual subtypes to manipulate because, from a purely instinctual perspective, we need people the least. Sp/So and Sx/Sp probably come next (social types are easy to manipulate as hell lol)

 

[violet_crown]

 

[Sunshiney]

Certain ENFJs can make me look like Satan Spawn.

 

[zanderp]

It makes for a good show

I kinda have an issue with Fe when it goes into mommy-mode. It kinda feels like being a 5-yaer old again:

ENFP: *presents ENFJ with something silly and fun, not meant in any serious way, inviting to come and play as well*
ENFJ: 'Aww, that's a very pretty [insert silly fun thing] *pats head*
ENFP:

hrrg! nng! OMG! This was so accurate it hit me right in the gut. Almost causing a physical reaction. I literally created an account just so I could reply to this. I have been super frustrated with my ENFJ brother because his Fe always makes him feel so ingenuine. There's so many things that bother me about the way he acts, but this one is the biggest. He doesn't get that I want him to ALSO be interested in the things I'm interested in. But because Fe is about everyone else, HE isn't feeling compelled to do things and it makes me feel disconnected from him.

Also, the part that really hit me was that it makes me feel like I'm just being a silly little kid. Like I'm taking the things I do super seriously and he's letting me feel good about myself. It just...HRRRG! Makes me so frustrated and stressed. I don't need to be falsely praised or feel like I'm being labelled as childish by association and pandered to.

Believe it or not but somehow the Te/ INTJ daddy response actually makes me cringe less:

ENFP: *silly fun thing*
INTJ option 1: *raises eyebrow while desperately trying to keep from grinning*
INTJ option 2: 'Cute. Now go away.' *goes back to playing videogames and conquering the world*'

I still don't get why it doesn't bother me.

I'm also wondering what is going throug the FJ's mind when they do the whole...I guess, placating thing? *curious*

Also, it's not frustrating with INTJ's because you know you're changing their day in little ways and making them feel good. It's cute and it still feels like connecting. There's no ulterior motive and there's no true loss of power like with the ENFJ's placating.

 

[Forever]

*doesnt feel like trolling this thread today*

Although I do wonder if INFJ's and ENFJ's get along anyway

 

[á´…eparted]

Oh there's no need. We'll just say it for you

 

[Amargith]

hrrg! nng! OMG! This was so accurate it hit me right in the gut. Almost causing a physical reaction. I literally created an account just so I could reply to this. I have been super frustrated with my ENFJ brother because his Fe always makes him feel so ingenuine. There's so many things that bother me about the way he acts, but this one is the biggest. He doesn't get that I want him to ALSO be interested in the things I'm interested in. But because Fe is about everyone else, HE isn't feeling compelled to do things and it makes me feel disconnected from him.

Also, the part that really hit me was that it makes me feel like I'm just being a silly little kid. Like I'm taking the things I do super seriously and he's letting me feel good about myself. It just...HRRRG! Makes me so frustrated and stressed. I don't need to be falsely praised or feel like I'm being labelled as childish by association and pandered to.



Also, it's not frustrating with INTJ's because you know you're changing their day in little ways and making them feel good. It's cute and it still feels like connecting. There's no ulterior motive and there's no true loss of power like with the ENFJ's placating.

Wow, blast from the past

I've found that it seems to stem from an innate need for harmony and not knowing what to do with extreme excitability (because it can cause such chaos, they treat it with gloves), so they placate instead, trying to manage your emotional state and bring it back to the flock, as it were. I've also had ENFJs who know you well enough and aren't too anxious (which makes them more control freaks) just join me in the fun, or grab the popcorn, so it's a matter of them relaxing into the very thing that drives their ego - that's not an easy feat for anyone (we all have our ego invested in something). It seems to especially happen one-on-one when they have no group to consider, and the risk of collateral damage is significantly reduced in their eyes.

These days, I feel comfortable enough with myself that I notice it, smile (or roll my eyes a bit if I'm short on patience that day), and just ease up on them a bit. On a bad day, it still annoys me, but I also know that that stems from my own frustration of people treating me like a kid as a default, (it gets better as you get older), as an ENFP, making it a sensitive trigger as it is, and is therefore, in part, projection. It also doesn't help that I have a big need for freedom and that I consider the emotional realm one of my strengths, meaning I don't *need* them to manage me, nor do I want it. They may be afraid of going down that road, but I've travelled it many times and just because they're afraid of getting on board, doesn't mean I can't handle what lies ahead. Basically, that sentiment is what triggers the rebellion against their attempt to manage/control.

I don't yield all the way, just a bit, to meet them half way and see if it reduces their level of anxiety. If they still show me the white in their eyes, I'll drop it fully and go have fun with someone else.It's no fun without two to tango after all. But it's like a peace offering, to coax them into letting go a bit

Meanwhile, with INTJs they'll actually look at you and seriously ponder you. Yes, they may judge you to be a fruitcake, but they'll respect the apparent desire to be a fruitcake and decide for themselves if they want to be part of the fruitcake-experience while letting you know so in no uncertain terms. And when you present them with a non-fruitcake experience, they'll actually judge it separately and won't hold the fruitcake fun against you, or let it taint your credibility - unless you've got an established pattern of being a troll fruitcake

 

[Virtual ghost]

Generally bad at taking criticism.

They think they are better strategists than they really are ... not everything is in people.

There is a realistic possbility they will come cross as "sex objects".

Can be manipulaive for justfied and unjutified reasons. (and be good at it)

May be enforcer or creator of pointless/unpractical rules.




Just to name the obvious ones.

 

[entropie]

Wow, blast from the past

I've found that it seems to stem from an innate need for harmony and not knowing what to do with extreme excitability (because it can cause such chaos, they treat it with gloves), so they placate instead, trying to manage your emotional state and bring it back to the flock, as it were. I've also had ENFJs who know you well enough and aren't too anxious (which makes them more control freaks) just join me in the fun, or grab the popcorn, so it's a matter of them relaxing into the very thing that drives their ego - that's not an easy feat for anyone (we all have our ego invested in something). It seems to especially happen one-on-one when they have no group to consider, and the risk of collateral damage is significantly reduced in their eyes.

These days, I feel comfortable enough with myself that I notice it, smile (or roll my eyes a bit if I'm short on patience that day), and just ease up on them a bit. On a bad day, it still annoys me, but I also know that that stems from my own frustration of people treating me like a kid as a default, (it gets better as you get older), as an ENFP, making it a sensitive trigger as it is, and is therefore, in part, projection. It also doesn't help that I have a big need for freedom and that I consider the emotional realm one of my strengths, meaning I don't *need* them to manage me, nor do I want it. They may be afraid of going down that road, but I've travelled it many times and just because they're afraid of getting on board, doesn't mean I can't handle what lies ahead. Basically, that sentiment is what triggers the rebellion against their attempt to manage/control.

I don't yield all the way, just a bit, to meet them half way and see if it reduces their level of anxiety. If they still show me the white in their eyes, I'll drop it fully and go have fun with someone else.It's no fun without two to tango after all. But it's like a peace offering, to coax them into letting go a bit

Meanwhile, with INTJs they'll actually look at you and seriously ponder you. Yes, they may judge you to be a fruitcake, but they'll respect the apparent desire to be a fruitcake and decide for themselves if they want to be part of the fruitcake-experience while letting you know so in no uncertain terms. And when you present them with a non-fruitcake experience, they'll actually judge it separately and won't hold the fruitcake fun against you, or let it taint your credibility - unless you've got an established pattern of being a troll fruitcake

I recognized this text was written in the english language, many more I did not understand

 

[Yama]

no

 

[Amargith]

I recognized this text was written in the english language, many more I did not understand

That is understandable

 

[anticlimatic]

Bullies and drama emperors who choose which people they will suck into their emotional black holes based on cosmically irrelevant surrounding details like which song they first happen to hear after seeing them.

 

[Norrsken]

No

 

[Tilt]

Generally bad at taking criticism.

They think they are better strategists than they really are ... not everything is in people.

There is a realistic possbility they will come cross as "sex objects".

Can be manipulaive for justfied and unjutified reasons. (and be good at it)

May be enforcer or creator of pointless/unpractical rules.




Just to name the obvious ones.

I don't necessarily disagree with the list but what do you mean by "sex objects"?

 

[Cellmold]

Overthinking the obvious to avoid confronting the obvious.

Swings between conflict and peacemaker but doesn't know how to balance it. Either settles for authoritative tyrant or delicate flower stem with poisonous roots. Is often insecure about intellectual ability, not realising that intellectual ability is best garnered by NOT overthinking the status of being seen as 'intellectual' (the underground river flows the best/least impeded). Tends to aggressively overcompensate in this area, but loses out on flexibility of thought for certainty of fact (despite the flexibility of what constitutes a fact).

Unless examined by a deliberate effort (often brought on by some 'transformative' experience) will remain rather cloistered to own hypocrisies and controlling methods. Even subtle attempts to mood modulate and the damage this can bring without due consideration. The urge to draw out the picture of the internal vision and push it onto others (ie: the best they can be) regardless of if the subject wants or agrees with this vision of themselves.

Given to histrionics if not tempered by an effort to look at oneself in the individual arena (as opposed to a mere vessel for other's benefit). Can be hedonistic in times of stress, looking towards external, sensory indulgence to quell animosities within.

Needs to push towards areas of weakness after introspective identification, often concerning areas of self-driven confidence as opposed to a confidence derived from being part of a group system.

Learn to accept vulnerabilities in social status, to escape the trappings of 'echos' from others. (These last three are basically the same point I think).

Be wary of assuming too much in other's behaviours, while given to insight, often it is forgotten that differences in cognition strike out at vastly different motivations.

Avoid temptations to snobbery if possible.

 

[FemMecha]

Lol...do you ever do it coz you don't know what else to say and don't wanna show them that you find their silliness just annoying/stupid? Coz that's how it feels. It feels like you're placating me in order to have your precious harmony, so I'll feel acknowledged and fall in line to be quiet and not have me be hurt over the fact that you a) didn't wanna play b) think it's a stupid game anyways.

Are you talking about patronizing?

I don't know if I use much Fe or not, but when I say positive things to people, or make an extra effort to say something nice, it tends to be for one of two reasons. Either the person seems sad, down on themselves, and I think they could use a little boost; or it's about efficiency and getting people to calm down or place their attention elsewhere. I do that with competitive people or angry people. I don't want them fixating on me for games, so I tell them they are amazing (and try to be truthful - I'll pick a quality or something that is positive), so they can win and leave me alone. Angry and competitive people create a lot of games, complexity, and a complete mess socially. Those two qualities make people really invested in nonsense and problems, so sometimes compliments can diminish that problem.

 

[Amargith]

Are you talking about patronizing?

I don't know if I use much Fe or not, but when I say positive things to people, or make an extra effort to say something nice, it tends to be for one of two reasons. Either the person seems sad, down on themselves, and I think they could use a little boost; or it's about efficiency and getting people to calm down or place their attention elsewhere. I do that with competitive people or angry people. I don't want them fixating on me for games, so I tell them they are amazing (and try to be truthful - I'll pick a quality or something that is positive), so they can win and leave me alone. Angry and competitive people create a lot of games, complexity, and a complete mess socially. Those two qualities make people really invested in nonsense and problems, so sometimes compliments can diminish that problem.

I am. And the bolded is where I take issue. You can always tell me that you're not up for these games, and I'll happily be on my way. Trying to manage me to make it go away is not appreciated because while I understand that the game may not be your cup of tea, it was just an invitation - and I don't appreciate being 'managed' or told I need to calm down when I'm not intending any harm. Meanwhile, there are those that do enjoy those games

But I do understand the reaction. It is one of self-preservation.

 

[FemMecha]

I am. And the bolded is where I take issue. You can always tell me that you're not up for these games, and I'll happily be on my way. Trying to manage me to make it go away is not appreciated because while I understand that the game may not be your cup of tea, it was just an invitation. And there are those that do enjoy those games

But I do understand the reaction. It is one of self-preservation.

Personally I'm up for silly games , but not angry ones . I may not use Fe, so it's hard to know.

Anyway, I threw off this silly game actually, so it's time for toodles...

 

[Amargith]

Personally I'm up for silly games , but not angry ones . I may not use Fe, so it's hard to know.

Anyway, I threw off this silly game actually, so it's time for toodles...

LOL.


Nice adaptation of 'managing'

Way more ENFP-friendly, I'll grant you that