Keirsey's soulmates: ENFJ/INTP

[animenagai]

okay, i've been reading a lot into what keirsey has said about your 'perfect match' in terms of MBTI types and i am intrigued. for those who don't know, it's matching your N/S function and flipping everything else. eg. pairing an ESTP with an ISFJ. at first i found the prospect of an ENFP being paired with an INTJ ridiculous, but the more i look into it, the more it makes sense. now i'm pretty much sold.

problem is, these pairings at first glance look so different that it's hard to immediately find connections. so my plan is to look at a different pairing every few days and discuss it with you guys and see if we can find these connections.

the one thing i want to stress with this thread is this: PLEASE TRY TO FIND REASONS IN SUPPORT OF A PAIRING AND NOT REASONS AGAINST IT. it's a given that keirsey may be wrong, however, given the nature of the beast we're dealing with i think it would be in our best interest to find reasons why they DO work, just because the connections are not obvious. if after all our efforts we cannot find a good reason for these pairings, fine, we can ridicule keirsey all we want. however, the last thing i want to do is to be blinded by first impressions and dismiss this theory/pairing when we haven't made our best efforts. i hope you all understand.

okay, that's all the background talk i'm gonna give. let's just start with the first pairing. give me reasons why an ENFJ and an INTP will work well together. let's hear em. have fun with it

 

[entropie]

Do you have a good source about keirseys pairing types ?

 

[Jack Flak]

It never seemed to me that Keirsey had enough observational data to make solid judgments on type dynamics, unlike socionics.

 

[proteanmix]

Before I merge this, I'm going to give you a chance to tell me how it's any different from this thread:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/3349-mbti-type-matches-compatibilty.html

Because I have until midnight to reach my merges per day quota.

 

[animenagai]

Do you have a good source about keirseys pairing types ?

simply put, no. i try and read about this stuff and i get small references about keirsey's method, particularly when i read about specific types and their love life. the explanations are usually short and really just leaves you wondering. that's why i made this thread, and honestly, some of the stuff i get here is better than what a lot of the 'experts' say, apart from maybe the top dogs of the game like keirsey.

i guess we can start with these short explanations. this is apparently from keirsey himself. still isn't very long though.

The ENFJ, on the intuitive side, finds the INTP attractive. Now here is a splendid target for our catalyst, for beneath the cool, collected, detached, and doubting exterior lies an architect of buildings, machines, tools, operations, tactics, languages, mathematics, or whatever can be designed. If, that is, this latently capable designer can be "activated" or "brought out".

here's the INTP side of the story:

The INTP also has a second likely target to attract him: the ENFJ "pedagogue." What is a pedagogue? A catalyst of the growth process, someone who has that uncanny ability to "bring out" the other, to activate the differentiation or "unfolding" process in the learner. All NFs seem to have this capability in some degree and the accompanying desire to exercise it, but the ENFJ seems to have it in abundance. This relationship-the ENFJ-INTP-can be "deep and meaningful" for the former and anchoring in a charismatic way for the latter.

sounds exactly the same to me :steam:. there must be more to the story than this. DISCUSS!

 

[animenagai]

Before I merge this, I'm going to give you a chance to tell me how it's any different from this thread:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/3349-mbti-type-matches-compatibilty.html

Because I have until midnight to reach my merges per day quota.

i wanted to have more in depth conversations with each pairing. i think these are not simple issues to tackle and hence could take a bit of time/focus to sort through. it's too easy to get distracted with that other thread. it's good for general discussion but this is more specific.

the other thread also talks about all the popular theories on relationships. i really don't want to talk about socionics and such. i want to focus on keirsey.

 

[Snail]

A relationship between an ENFJ and an INTP can work fine. My ex-boyfriend (an INTP) used to date an ENFJ, and they hardly ever fought. She was bubbly and resilient, and she was just different enough from him that he didn't feel such an urge to try to change her. He was constantly trying to break my F into a T because it was the only letter where we differed. I was "so close" to being just what he demanded. He was able to appreciate her as a unique individual instead of seeing her as a potential mirror image that just needed a bit of work. Her extraversion allowed him to safely retreat into his private world of books and theories because she took on all of the social responsibilities and any chores that involved interacting with people. When I was with him, my introversion made it difficult for me to offer him the same luxury. She liked the challenge of trying to gradually, patiently make him more ethical, and she had greater success at healing his misanthropic attitudes than I had because he respected her more for her assertiveness. The only reason they broke up was that he got bored with her. She wasn't intelligent enough for him, even though she was enthusiastic about trying to study things with him. Her intelligence would not necessarily be type-dependent, regardless of what the research says about an introvert being more likely to have a high IQ than an extravert, so I would have to say that it is possible for ENFJs and INTPs to be extremely successful. The ENFJ was crazy about the INTP and needed his rationality to balance her. Both gained something from the relationship.

 

[redacted]

i don't think I/E is actually that important to this sort of pairing on a general level.

so if we drop the I/E, the pairings are
NTJ/NFP
NFJ/NTP
STJ/SFP
SFJ/STP

i think these make sense as the judging functions are the same, but the perceivings are different. and from my observations, the most conflict between people comes from different judging functions.

i dated an ENTP, and it was great. we saw different things, but analyzed them the same way.

 

[Snail]

i don't think I/E is actually that important to this sort of pairing on a general level.

so if we drop the I/E, the pairings are
NTJ/NFP
NFJ/NTP
STJ/SFP
SFJ/STP

i think these make sense as the judging functions are the same, but the perceivings are different. and from my observations, the most conflict between people comes from different judging functions.

i dated an ENTP, and it was great. we saw different things, but analyzed them the same way.

I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.

 

[animenagai]

I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.

i agree. i think it could mean a lot. i think if i dated an extroverted chick i may find the overall bubbliness level too much to take. dating an introvert can be a nice contrast, given that you both respect these differences.

anyways, i think there's a lot to be said about snail's observation on pushing your partner to be identical if you are similar. what keirsey's theory is saying is basically that opposites attract but you don't want to be so different that you can't communicate at all. makes sense i guess.

more specifically on this pairing though, could it be that the INTP, despite being somewhat disconnected from society enjoy watching the ENFJ helping everyone? INTP's can be pessimistic due to their wanting to be 'realistic'. ENFJ's are typically still pretty bright so they can answer the INTP's questions with reason while being contrastingly positive at the same time. if this is true, i can see why the INTP could be attracted to the ENFJ.

 

[Thursday]

the have the same inner workings : apply with each type

Ex.

ENTP w/ INFJ

Fe&Ti core - with both types as perceivers
primary theme - benevolent and detached analysis

me and night, forever

 

[littlesapling]

I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.

I'd have to agree with this. I too, find introversion a highly considered trait only because of much is required of me day to day as an infj. it gets tiring and solitude is a highly valued for time to not only recharge, but to reflect, reconsider, and reconstruct my thoughts and feelings so i'am ready and fresh again to take on life. but i guess this is if you have a strong leaning with your given 4 letter traits and how mature you are. I realize that growing characteristically will also enhance an individual's four letter type and emit the tolerance for one to work alongside another who may seem completely differently.

 

[colmena]

I used to consider the introverted as better suitors (I'm so gay, right?), but I've been so impressed with the ENTPs here, that I soon changed my mind a while back.

 

[Littlelostnf]

I think the flip flopping of the primary and last functions help and INTP and an ENFJ to connect on an interesting level. The INTPs I know I have an interesting dynamic with. It's very easy to read them...(I'm not always right on the money but close enough to make them take notice it might make them uncomfortable but not in a negative way. Same goes for me with regards to INTP's (the ones I know irl) I think it's a relationship that will occur mainly (with success) when both are older and have come to know themselves fairly well.

 

[redacted]

I think the I/E thing can be very important to some people. I know an INFJ who will only consider other introverts. It is the most important quality she seeks in a mate. Also, the relationship I just mentioned worked partly because of the I/E difference, where the girl's extraversion made her assertive enough and social enough to be just what the introverted guy needed.

i was just trying to say that not all Is prefer Es and vice versa. so i thought the I/E part should be taken out of the formula.

 

[Lateralus]

The INTPs I know don't look too fondly on ENFJs, at least the stereotype. It's true that extroverted feeling is an INTPs inferior function, but that doesn't mean they'll enjoy being with someone who uses it all the time. My youngest brother, an INTP, avoids those situations at all costs, which usually involves hiding out in his room.

 

[Littlelostnf]

The INTPs I know don't look too fondly on ENFJs, at least the stereotype. It's true that extroverted feeling is an INTPs inferior function, but that doesn't mean they'll enjoy being with someone who uses it all the time. My youngest brother, an INTP, avoids those situations at all costs, which usually involves hiding out in his room.

How old is your brother?

 

[Lateralus]

How old is your brother?

17

 

[Littlelostnf]

Yeah like I stated above..I think it takes a more mature (not just experience...time) INTP to appreicate the joys of an ENFJ. If he meets one and they are at a similar teen stage I can imagine her scaring the pants off him.

 

[proteanmix]

I think EFJ/ITP (and IFP/ETJ) combinations work against prevailing type compatibilities. ENP/INJ and ISJ/ESP do not have each others inferior function as the dominant of the other partner so they tend to work out a bit better. Of course there are exceptions, but that's what I mostly see.

I've found that if you're going to do the ENFJ/INTP then both parties need to be a bit more mature and patient with the other and willing to see the strengths the other possesses as not something that needs to be beat down with a bat. There are some INTPs on the forum whose Ti I find grating while others (like ygolo and :horor:Bluewing:horor that doesn't really bother me at all, I actually like their manner and what they have to say.

I think EFJ/ETP and IFJ/ITP is probably a better combo.