Karma: real or ridiculous?

[Ene]

Glad you added "intentions." I think you're right. They matter.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

All people who are interested in that subject use the same words : vibes, intentions, being affected directly or later, and the word RIGHT.

Bouddhism teaches you a way of thinking which seems weird for people thinking "We only live once". We could indeed suppose humanity has its own perception of things which is (very) limited. If one takes a look at spiritual movies or documentaries, one understands easily that time is what we can't control. "Time is flying" or other idioms show that, science-fiction...etc.
But as a human being we need some landmarks and points of references. We can see what is concrete right now, but we can't imagine what will be the consequences of some actions (even in some few years).

If we think Justice, why would it be just HERE & NOW ? Why wouldn't my body be like an envelop ? What counts is indeed the intention of the person who writes (what drives us), the meaning, the pressure of the pen on the paper, and how the message will affect me.

And we're all writing our lives...
I'm reading a book on magnetism after having attended a lecture, and all I can say is : the mystery will remain the mystery because we're just human. BUT : We can work onto our energies and understand them : they do have a meaning. I always try to understand why some things happened to me, and not to my neighbour. Luck or bad luck, levels of consciousness, or sometimes just "lottery"? Even if you decide to play the lottery you have to choose...
And Karma speaks of FREE WILL indeed.


So karma or not karma, I just follow the vibes like a cat would follow a fly...
If one pays attention to vibes around him/her and uses reason, there is no point of asking "is that my karma".
Yes it is

 

[á´…eparted]

Hogwash. There is no reason or evidence to support it's exsistance.

 

[Mole]

Traditionally karma refers to the next life, while the New Age has reinterpreted karma to refer to this life.

And frankly I don't think there is any evidence of a next life, and I also think the New Age reinterpretation is entirly narcissistic.

But how we love our karma.

 

[Glint]

I invoke 'karma' in speech sometimes but don't actually count on anything actually happening. It's more akin to cursing the other person/warning them that their actions aren't good for themselves either.

Mechanically what you might call 'karma' is the eventual consequence of their actions, but it's not something supernatural or willed by some sense of right or wrong. It just happens and is logical in retrospect.

 

[Pionart]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Positive and negative energy.

Push a surface, it pushes back, pull a handle, it pulls back,

Do good for the world, it does good back. Do bad to the world, it does bad back.

 

[Little_Sticks]

*Adding to my original post

I think to say that karma distinguishes between good and bad is not what karma represents btw. At its fundamental level, it asserts that there is an effect for every cause. On the Buddhist level of death, it's to mean there will be an effect to the lives of others from the life you lived.

Of course, if you don't believe in cause and effect, but in the synchronicity of being or of the future (re)defining/changing the meaning of the past then we have a problem:

1. For example, let's say cause and effect is in everything, then the more someone understands the nature of how things play out around them (and everyone has their own nature that complicates this), the more real karma becomes - because then you can predict what effect your actions will produce, placing a greater responsibility on the choices you make.
2. But then let's say that you find how someone viewed the past to depend solely on how they viewed that past from the future. This makes sense because we can choose to see our past in different ways. Well, now we have a problem because we can change the cause by redefining its meaning and changing how we see it.

So I'd say karma does exist when the effects of actions can be accurately predicted, but doesn't when they are unpredictable or when synchronicity is involved.

 

[Avocado]

Karma is a superstition based on a belief in the supernatural.

But more important, Karma is a fashionable belief of the New Age.

Yes, when we can't increase our status with religion, we turn to the latest fashion, and shyly admit we see and feel Karma operating around us. And so we raise our status in the eyes of others. It must be Karma.

Blech...Karma...

How do you explain all the bad people who are never punished, and all the good people who die young? What about those born with disabilities? Are they bad people? Huh? Answer me!

 

[johnnyyukon]

A guy slapped me once, and I slapped him back a lot harder. Boom, Karma.

But yeah, why wasn't Hitler kept alive and sodomized by dogs for the rest of his life?

One thing's for sure, there's some weird shit that goes on and very odd coincidences and chance meetings and so forth. I experience Synchronicity frequently.

So an ex gf kept telling me how she couldn't find her name on the coke bottles, and it's a really common name. She says that she looks everytime she's out shopping, at coke bottles. To see if her name is on it (ok whatever). But she's telling me this at a CVS pharmacy while she's looking for a coke in a small refrigerator with like 5, and finds her name. I think I said something like "I'm you're lucky charm!" but it was indeed odd. And that kind of stuff used to happen between as a lot when we were together.

 

[Little_Sticks]

Sodomized by dogs for the rest of his life...of all the things...lol.

 

[Mole]

Blech...Karma...

How do you explain all the bad people who are never punished, and all the good people who die young? What about those born with disabilities? Are they bad people? Huh? Answer me!

OK, I'll answer you mate.

All the bad people who are never punished in this life are punished in the next life by karma.

And all those who die young in this life, are rewarded by karma in the next life, with a long, happy and prosperous life with many children and grandchildren.

And those born with disabilities in this life, are compensated by karma in the next life with exceptional physical, emotional and intellectual abilities.

 

[Avocado]

OK, I'll answer you mate.

All the bad people who are never punished in this life are punished in the next life by karma.

And all those who die young in this life, are rewarded by karma in the next life, with a long, happy and prosperous life with many children and grandchildren.

And those born with disabilities in this life, are compensated by karma in the next life with exceptional physical, emotional and intellectual abilities.

Interesting philosophy, but what is the evidence for this claim? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Avocado]

Karma does not exist.

The only forces in the universe that we can demonstrate actually exist show no particular sign of following a pattern anything like how we view karma, and why would they? Karma seems like something designed with a purpose (which the cosmos is not) along the lines of a human idea of good and bad (which is subjective and chaotic).

I don't even like it as a guiding philosophy. As someone trying to do right, you must understand that possibly nothing will return to you for doing so except the satisfaction of believing you have done right, and to assume that people who do wrong will be face karmic consequences encourages passivity in the face of injustice. The cosmos will not take care of that for you.

Exactly.

 

[Mole]

Interesting philosophy, but what is the evidence for this claim? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I am forced to admit there is absolutely no evidence, no evidence whatsoever, for the traditional claim of karma in the next life.

However there is the New Age claim of karma in this life - illustrated by such popular sayings as what goes around comes around.

 

[Little_Sticks]

Exactly.

I dunno. We could turn the idea inversely on itself and say that if karma doesn't exist, then we can do bad and expect good results out of it. However, there are actions that we reinforce and encourage in others and actions that we will punish. How do you refute the seemingly human necessity for ethics and laws that promote such things if karma isn't to exist at all?

 

[alcea rosea]

To the OP. I like the idea of Karma because it would mean that there is justice / a greater balance, which is something that seems to be missing in the world (it feels like that sometimes). I don't necessarily believe in Karma but on the other hand I don't say it could not be. But with our without Karma, I like to live my life as well as I can, doing as much good as I can and trying to treat people as well as I can. I like to treat people well not because I expect to get something out of it (like a good Karma) but because I feel it's the right thing to do. Treat others as you yourself like to be treated.

 

[sprinkles]

What most of you think karma is, is likely wrong. Little_Sticks was on the right track but I won't bother to repeat it. It's there if you want to read it.

Edit: and it is pretty clear that many don't read anyway.

 

[Avocado]

I am forced to admit there is absolutely no evidence, no evidence whatsoever, for the traditional claim of karma in the next life.

However there is the New Age claim of karma in this life - illustrated by such popular sayings as what goes around comes around.

Some theives are never punished, some heroes are killed. We are free agents in a chaos system. There is no force on Earth as of 2014 AD which governs morality other than people, as morality is a human construct. Superstitions such as karma are merely ideologies designed to keep those with control in power.
During the Enlightenment, the light of reason led us away from a world ruled by the church. We must put childish things aside and give love and kindness to each other without expecting a reward.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I dunno. We could turn the idea inversely on itself and say that if karma doesn't exist, then we can do bad and expect good results out of it. However, there are actions that we reinforce and encourage in others and actions that we will punish. How do you refute the seemingly human necessity for ethics and laws that promote such things if karma isn't to exist at all?

Well some people do do bad, very bad naughty things and gain a lot of power, money, and influence. Are they happy? I dunno. But ask a cannibal warlord in Liberia. Such as General Butt Naked and no I'm not joking, that's a real dude in Liberia that slaughtered hundreds of people, including children. I'm not even going to post the shit, as it's too graphic. But the documentary linked is one the most disturbing I've ever seen. The "General" is a preacher now.


My other thought was that perhaps some people are just born evil, or it's just a part of their nature. A lion doesn't get punished for "murdering" defenseless, cute little antelope on a weekly basis, because that's it's nature. Maybe karma escapes some naturally evil people. Sure, a lot get caught and then there's ones that don't that maybe are tortured by their own demons, and some that are A OK with casually lopping off the head of some random pedestrian and never get caught.

And I'm sure some people don't kill because of the SEVERE consequences of getting caught. There may be some higher knowing of what is "Right" and "Wrong" but even then, it would be relative to the situation. Hard to say, interesting discussion.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

My other thought was that perhaps some people are just born evil, or it's just a part of their nature. A lion doesn't get punished for "murdering" defenseless, cute little antelope on a weekly basis, because that's it's nature. Maybe karma escapes some naturally evil people. Sure, a lot get caught and then there's ones that don't that maybe are tortured by their own demons, and some that are A OK with casually lopping off the head of some random pedestrian and never get caught.

It may be their nature as you say, but we are not leaving into a jungle (or only in a metaphorical way), so that is why strict rules must be enforced in our societies.
If you are evil, one day or another you'll feel guilty. Hitler has committed suicide, even if his own demons were not in touch with reason since a long time.

I must admit I would have killed my ex boss if laws were not what they are

I am the 1st one who will raise both hands for much more humanity and freedom.
A society can only feel safe and free with rules that protect it from dangers.

Being for freedom and not giving a damn about justice would be totally senseless.
Karma may also be part of a very idealist philosophy to believe in justice, a diamond into a so disappointing world.