ISTJ vs INTJ

[JustDave]

I didn't even come close either. My grades were good but not great. And I hated "organized fun".

 

[The Ü™]

I was somewhat of a troublemaker, actually. But I tended to express taboo ideas that got others upset. And then I just laughed at their reaction because I tend to believe that people who get offended by things are fools. Sometimes I like to ask people: "Do you even question exactly why you get offended by these ideas or are you offended by them because society told you to be?"

I enjoyed doing things to cause a state of unrest, but I usually never did anything that violated any specific school rules, just general mores.

And I was also the ultimate movie geek. I was never really interested in academic pursuits.

 

[JustDave]

I simply got bored very easily and would find other ways to amuse myself. Much to the chagrin of my teachers, naturally.

 

[zarc]

How can you tell whether someone is the ISTJ type or the INTJ type? I know enough about MBTI theory to know that ISTJs have domSi and INTJs have domNi... the trouble is that behaviourally, I find it hard to tell them apart. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to tell the difference?

I've been thinking on depicting in great detail the differences and misconceptions b/w all of the Types slushing through them two by two at a time with regards to xxxP or xxxJ Type siblings....As you've already agreed on all of my INFP depictions in my INFP or INFJ? thread, I wonder if you'll trust my intuitions on the rest?

Though, I should say, I don't know if you agreed on all, as you just proclaimed grief of horror in my knowing exactly how you INFPs work , so perhaps it's not all but most?

 

[sciski]

That would be very neat to see, DD.

But rather than simply do the J vs P, maybe try separating the types that frequently generate confusion? eg I'm thinking INFJ vs INTJ, INFP vs ENFP... that kind of thing.

And I thought I was expressing astonished relief Charlie Brown-style.

 

[zarc]

That would be very neat to see, DD.

But rather than simply do the J vs P, maybe try separating the types that frequently generate confusion? eg I'm thinking INFJ vs INTJ, INFP vs ENFP... that kind of thing.

And I thought I was expressing astonished relief Charlie Brown-style.

Hmm. INFJ vs INTJ seems easy for me to see the difference as my lil'sis is an INTJ and I'm an INFJ. We are very freaky to others if they 'see/hear' us say things at the exact same time as we were so quiet in listening. We constantly do it in private to. One might say something before the other and it's "I was just thinking that! You beat me!" or "Stop reading my mind, damn you!" (<--sis)
I'm and taunt her next thought and next thought lol

I sometimes sound nicer, though, when speaking to people Here's a typical convo she and I have which I posted a while ago you might find interesting.

The J vs P to me has generated a LOT of confusion as people mistakenly believed that xxxP stands for Procrastinator whereas xxxJ is for Just Done (made that up, couldn't think of anything...). So, while they CAN be that, they can also be xxxP stands for Promptly Done and xxxJ can stand for Just ONE MORE THING! (<---guilty of that)

I'll take that in mind though, on which ones are usually mixed up.

 

[Recoleta]

In my experience, if you are trying to tell ISTJ/INTJ...you look at how they look at you. ISTJs seem to have more of an openness about them, whereas an INTJ might look like, "Why is this person talking to me?"

Yup, this pretty much explains perfectly the way one of my INTJ best friends and I are viewed. This particular INTJ went to a wedding with me once and I'm pretty sure he didn't talk to anyone but me the entire time, whereas I talked to at least a few people I had never met before and was able to at least fake a little bit of the "small talk." On the way home he was like, "I think I scare people...or they think I'm weird."

To the outside observer the way we behave is fairly similar. We are both good listeners, but like Kiddo said, the INTJ is a better listener than I. *I can completely ignore what people are saying sometimes...lol...but only if I think what they are saying is stupid* Also, he will rarely offer his personal opinion on something...he usually stays open-minded and neutral, whereas I am much more likely to state my position on something.

 

[The Ü™]

I always assumed that an INTJ was the closed to new experiences because their Ni leads them to live deep in their own world. So by living a life of repetition, there would be no reason to come out of that world. This is pretty much the way I am.

 

[zarc]

I always assumed that an INTJ was the closed to new experiences because their Ni leads them to live deep in their own world. So by living a life of repetition, there would be no reason to come out of that world. This is pretty much the way I am.

Well, perhaps you lack competent or conscientious people around you.

INTJs wouldn't be closed due to their Ni---unless only relying on it. INTJs use Te as the driving force which takes Ni out and makes you respond to others in order to "organise" their thoughts if incorrect with logic or lost in 'emotional perspecitives'. That doesn't mean they're being pompous about it. It's a way they try to HELP others. It only becomes arrogant or rude if they are doing it out of spite because such others are ignorant or perceived idiots by the INTJ or their loved one isn't comprehending that they are trying to help them which leads to frustration (as Fi is your 3rd CP and not as developed) as they wouldn't know how to respond 'on a more emotionally understanding' level---unless they are an INTJ who's evolved in the full spectrum of their Cognitive Processing.

They can become more free to express themselves in their environment and not fear looking superfluously emotionally stunted so as to appear overly gratuitous but not retentive of their logical faculties at the time...so they look stupid for acting silly....intsead, they can become goofy or silly or anything happily displayed in front of others as they understand there is NO THREAT in being misunderstood. Even if so, it's fine as INTJs normally disregard the opinions of others if found lacking anyway. It would be more of a "Let them think what they want, they can't so much as bother me."....and maybe add "Stupid morons don't even know how to be happy, ha!"

 

[The Ü™]

Well, perhaps you lack competent or conscientious people around you.

That's part of it, but I also rarely ever leave my house (okay, apartment) because my home is my castle -- I'm always in control.

I also don't have the confidence to stand up to other people or to even break my habits because they bring me a sense of security.

I also tend to enjoy doing remedial tasks in the outside world because I would still have power to my mind to muse over internal concepts and ideas. But when there are outside interruptions, such as a change of plan, I lose my internal concentration.

When a change in the plan happens without being warned in advance, I become enraged and yell at others, probably due to my inferior Se.

 

[Mycroft]

Honestly, an equally intelligent ISTJ and INTJ with well-developed Te would be pretty tough to tell apart, particularly in the workplace.

...in personal relationships, that one-letter difference causes us to drive each other insane. Our actions can be similar, but our motivations are quite different.

If the person you're attempting to type is looking to be a pillar of strength to the workplace/community/etc., he's most likely an ISTJ. If he's working to realize some secret plan which he refuses to tell anybody about, you've likely found yourself an INTJ. (This can be misleading, however; if the INTJ doesn't trust you, he'll swear up and down that he does everything he does for the sake of being a pillar of strength to the workplace/community/etc. Business-minded INTJs, in particular, are perfectly willing to blend.)

 

[sciski]

...in personal relationships, that one-letter difference causes us to drive each other insane. Our actions can be similar, but our motivations are quite different.

Yes, that's why it's hard to tell the difference. I don't know his motivations because he is so secretive. All I can read are the 'tones' of his interactions, and even those may be incorrect.

He is either an ISTJ, or an INTJ who is currently blending in by following orders without questioning their basis. I am leaning toward ISTJ though, he seems very happy to be following the orders as opposed to having any secretive plans. Not that he's incapable of hatching secretive plans.

He is giving off the following vibes- "Finally, a place that accepts me!" and "Let me use my organisational skills to help this place."

 

[zarc]

Yes, that's why it's hard to tell the difference. I don't know his motivations because he is so secretive. All I can read are the 'tones' of his interactions, and even that may be incorrect.

He is either an ISTJ, or an INTJ who is currently blending in by following orders without questioning their basis. I am leaning toward ISTJ though, he seems very happy to be following the orders. He is giving off the following vibes- "Finally, a place that accepts me!" and "Let me use my organisational skills to help this place."

I find it hard for INTJs to blend in or follow orders if something is too biased that they can visibly see it or feel it. INTJs are more aware of deception, or fancy themselves that when they misunderstand others' intentions, so while they MAY go along with the flow to avoid conflict, it's generally with "friends/loved ones" they don't want to upset or cause chaos b/c it'd affect them inadvertantly (unless they are so irked they must say something to 'help' which becomes more patronising and critical instead).

I'd imagine an INTJ would still seem a little reserved on the outside as opposed on the inside. My INTJ lil'sis, for example, will hear me as I excitedly tell her a theory or concept I'm creating or understanding and she might seem very impassive on her face or just 'lean forward' a bit (she's more likely to look excited if SHE'S figured something out)

I might tease her "You don't like it!" knowing she does (having a 7 year difference helps when you're an INFJ who wants to understand EVERYone nevermind your precious sibling! )

She'll say "No! I am VERY interested but you have to remember I just won't jump for joy like you're doing. I want to hear you out so I can process it all for myself before I just accept it. Jeez." but by the end of her saying it as I can NOT keep the grin off my face (sometimes I turn away which is even more obvious), she'll get teasingly get upset and then chase me for making her feel bad lolol

 

[sciski]

INTJs are more aware of deception, or fancy themselves that when they misunderstand others' intentions, so while they MAY go along with the flow to avoid conflict, it's generally with "friends/loved ones" they don't want to upset or cause chaos b/c it'd affect them inadvertantly

This factor is also making me confused! I wonder if what I am seeing is an INTJ 'in love' with his new friends and lifestyle - hence his willingness to go along simply because he desires to uphold and protect the place that he finds ideal.

Another thing - he has an astonishing recall of details. He will bring things up in conversation that I blathered on the spur of the moment eons ago. Is this Si at work? Or do all IxTJs have a filing cabinet of detailed information about people they find interesting? I know he finds me interesting - he probably hasn't run into too many NFPs before!

DD, your sister sounds cute - she'll hate me for saying that! But what luck, to be INFJ and have an INTJ sister!

 

[Mycroft]

Another thing - he has an astonishing recall of details. He will bring things up in conversation that I blathered on the spur of the moment eons ago. Is this Si at work?

The ability to accurately recall concrete details is the INTJ's weak area. I can't remember what I ate for breakfast most of the time.

 

[Totenkindly]

The one that is smiling and nodding while completely ignoring everything you say is the ISTJ, whereas the one who is arguing with you relentlessly is the INTJ.

Hey... from a behavioral standpoint, that's pretty good!

I argue relentlessly. Not because I enjoy it, it's like, "You're wrong. Your thoughts are like a picture frame hanging crookedly on the wall which I am compelled to straighten."

What's confusing is that ISTJs have all the internal complaints but usually do not allow themselves to broach them unless it is appropriate to the relationship and context of the situation. I consistently watch ISTJs back away from argumentation unless it is private and/or appropriate.

Meanwhile, you seem to be more hung up on the actual inherent logic/illogic and make that the basis of your choosing to argue. You don't seem to have any sense of propriety in when you choose to argue. That doesn't seem to mesh well with typical ISTJ/Si behavior; it's more typical of IxTP which focuses more on the ideas and their correctness rather than the appropriateness/social context of the discussion.

 

[The Ü™]

The one that is smiling and nodding while completely ignoring everything you say is the ISTJ, whereas the one who is arguing with you relentlessly is the INTJ.

Except I would think that the INTJ would ignore everything others say because they're primarily trapped in a reality of their own conception.

Where the ISTJ would probably bicker with you about ways to do things properly -- like "roll up spaghetti with your fork" and "chew with your mouth closed!" In which case, the INTJ wouldn't be the one listening, retorting that all these senseless rules are pointless.

 

[zarc]

Except I would think that the INTJ would ignore everything others say because they're primarily trapped in a reality of their own conception.

Where the ISTJ would probably bicker with you about ways to do things properly -- like "roll up spaghetti with your fork" and "chew with your mouth closed!" In which case, the INTJ wouldn't be the one listening, retorting that all these senseless rules are pointless.

I concur with that. Sis does it 100% of the time around Foolish People but remains silent, face impassive as I've helped her to be more understanding of people's numerous deficiences---unless she is roused to anger by an overwhelmingly stupid person intent on badgering her about someone or something or anything, at which it seems monstrous of her b/c it seems she intangibly concoted her anger but she can succintcly decimate a person with one or two lines or stutter out several more which then dissolves into furious cursing (if not enough time to think her points out as she knows them intensely) and will then berate herself for so much as falling into the Trap of Stupid People.

I am somewhat similar (INFJ/INTJs are cousins in Type), I just try a bit nicer to reach out to people's overwhelming and numerous stupidity. INFJs can become the worst of Monsters as they know exactly where to rip at one's values or beliefs or anything about the person/s involved....

 

[sassafrassquatch]

What's confusing is that ISTJs have all the internal complaints but usually do not allow themselves to broach them unless it is appropriate to the relationship and context of the situation. I consistently watch ISTJs back away from argumentation unless it is private and/or appropriate.

Meanwhile, you seem to be more hung up on the actual inherent logic/illogic and make that the basis of your choosing to argue. You don't seem to have any sense of propriety in when you choose to argue. That doesn't seem to mesh well with typical ISTJ/Si behavior; it's more typical of IxTP which focuses more on the ideas and their correctness rather than the appropriateness/social context of the discussion.

This is the internet which is for flame wars and porn. I would never argue in meatspace the way I do here. I'm actually very well behaved and more inline with the ISTJ stereotype. Here I let my thoughts spill out mostly unfiltered.

 

[zarc]

This is the internet which is for flame wars and porn. I would never argue in meatspace the way I do here. I'm actually very well behaved and more inline with the ISTJ stereotype. Here I let my thoughts spill out mostly unfiltered.

And allow avatars to display your true thoughts and feelings of the World at large and in specific?