[ISFJ] ISFJ's, loyalty and friendship?

[BerberElla]

Is it normal for an ISFJ to replace friends when something or someone better comes along?

I have, or feel like I had, a very close ISFJ friend. Having had so many crap friends in life, I honestly thought that this one would be a close friend right up until old age and death kicked in, and although I am sure we will remain "friends" for as long as I can handle the sort of friendship on offer now, it isn't the same.

Now I know that when your girlfriend starts a new relationship you can expect to lose out on some of the time you used to spend together, but it's more than that, now I get to spend no time with her whatsoever. Now I'm lucky if I get a quick phonecall when her man is out, or when she is upset with him. Other than that our friendship has taken a massive nose dive and I am struggling to make sense of it.

Is it that she had no real values when it came to friendship all along and I was too blind to see it?

It takes alot for me to commit myself to a friendship, and I also can't handle having more than one friend at a time so if a friendship goes belly up I am in deep doo doo because I have no one else to fall back on. I can't handle having aquaintances so any other budding friendship I ever had going on, I have faded out from because it's all too much for me. (makes me a pretty shit friend to others, maybe this is karma)

And no, I'm an INFP so I haven't said anything to her, I have just been letting it all build up inside knowing full well that I am likely to explode in anger anyday now.

Aside from being tossed to the side in favour of a 6'6", nicely packed where it matters, fella, she is fantastic, couldn't have asked for a better friend so it really surprised me to find out she could be so.........I want to say disloyal but the word doesn't quite fit, or fairwether friend, but even that doesn't quite fit, although I'm sure you get what I mean with all my ramblings.

Typical of an ISFJ, or just typical of women?

 

[cafe]

My experience is that ISFJs are about as loyal as you can get. It's fairly normal for people in new relationships to devote most of their time to the relationship at the cost of other relationships/activities. After some of the new wears off, she will probably have more time to spend with friends again.

 

[Colors]

I think it's troublesome that you've labeled yourself as someone who's only capable of having a single meaningful friendship at a time. I do this all the time. When you've already got one great friend, it's easy to slack off and back away at the difficult "getting to know you better" stage with acquaintances/ possible-friends. I mean, so much cost- and vulnerability and awkwardness when on the other hand I've already got something fun and trusting. So I shut it down. It's much easier to rely on friendships you've already solidified.

I'm not saying your feelings of abandonment are not valid. (And some people really do disappear at the beginning of romance.) Perhaps you need to adjust your expectations a little?

 

[Rachelinpa]

It's fairly normal for people in new relationships to devote most of their time to the relationship at the cost of other relationships/activities. After some of the new wears off, she will probably have more time to spend with friends again.

Agreed. I don't think this is an ISFJ trait. I have known ESFPs and ESFJs who do this as well. Even my INTJ friend would cancel on me for her boyfriend.

 

[proteanmix]

I think it's troublesome that you've labeled yourself as someone who's only capable of having a single meaningful friendship at a time. I do this all the time. When you've already got one great friend, it's easy to slack off and back away at the difficult "getting to know you better" stage with acquaintances/ possible-friends. I mean, so much cost- and vulnerability and awkwardness when on the other hand I've already got something fun and trusting. So I shut it down. It's much easier to rely on friendships you've already solidified.

I'm not saying your feelings of abandonment are not valid. (And some people really do disappear at the beginning of romance.) Perhaps you need to adjust your expectations a little?

Most excellent point!

And I kind of expect when friends start a new romantic relationship that they'll slack off with me a bit. It's been done to me and I've done it. You do feel a bit slighted and there are things a person can do to control for any hurt feelings but I wouldn't make the friend entering the new relationship spread themselves so thin. Is this a pattern for her? Some people place greater priority on romantic relationships than friendships. I don't think that's wrong or right, but it happens and if the balance doesn't tip in your favor feelings get hurt. Plus your friend is an introvert like you and probably prefers fewer which may come at the cost of an existing friendship. How long has this been going on? A few weeks? A few months?

And coming from the other end, when I've had friends who I can see over rely on me for their one social outlet or their one true friendship I start backing up. I don't want to have that kind of pressure on me so I'll start scrambling away.

 

[Giggly]

Hi BerberElla, forget her, she sucks. I'll be your new friend and I'll never abandon you.

(am I being an opportunist?)

 

[BerberElla]

It's been coming up to 10 months so far and maybe my hurt feelings contribute towards the drawing away because I've stopped replying to every phone call and I've stopped making an effort to stay in touch because I thought I saw the future I went with my gut instinct that the friendship as I had known it was gone, so that's not helpful.

I guess my expectations were far too high because I expect better from a friend, I expect equal in return and I haven't tossed a friend away in favour of a man, I always made it clear that my friend was a permanent fixture.

I think she is quite like me, one close relationship and everything else seems too draining to manage, and of course she loves him so I get pushed to the side.

I'm happy for her, I spent years convincing her that 6 years of mourning a past relationship were too much and it was time to give love another go, I guess I just didn't expect to fall to the wayside so easily. I feel like I wasn't really valued in the grand scheme of things.

@ Colors, it really hit me over the course of losing this friendship that my one friend at a time policy was a bad thing in the long run. Live and learn as they say.

I just don't think I can change that part of me, it's really hard devoting myself to too many people, practically sucks the life right out of me.

I will try though.

The only reason I asked this question was that I trusted that as an ISFJ, who are known for loyalty, I wouldn't have to worry about this sort of thing happening so it was a safe bet to commit my friendship........but this is what happens when you use mbti to hedge your bets.

 

[BerberElla]

Hi BerberElla, forget her, she sucks. I'll be your new friend and I'll never abandon you.

(am I being an opportunist?)

I'm almost insane you know, I wouldn't be so quick to commit to me

 

[Colors]

Well, it's pretty easy for me to say that, when I've got the most sucessful (relatively) kind of codependent friendship- members of equal introversion/ codependency/ social laziness! We actually made a pact to each other this summer to make new friends, separately, in the following "school" months.

I guess the trials of living different lives taught me it wasn't best to be like the way I was.... And that the thought that I would expect a significant other to have other friends, other interests, and hobbies outside to our relationship (and for him to respect my outside friends and interests)- so how could I have completely different expectations in a friendship?

My expectations have changed, but the forging-new-relationships part? Easier said than done. Growing up is such a bummer.

 

[FDG]

This is why feeling types should never be friends (I mean, F-F)

 

[BerberElla]

Well, it's pretty easy for me to say that, when I've got the most sucessful (relatively) kind of codependent friendship- members of equal introversion/ codependency/ social laziness! We actually made a pact to each other this summer to make new friends, separately, in the following "school" months.

Our friendship was pretty codependent too, just now she has transferred that dependency to someone else and I have no one left to be dependent on

I guess the trials of living different lives taught me it wasn't best to be like the way I was.... And that the thought that I would expect a significant other to have other friends, other interests, and hobbies outside to our relationship (and for him to respect my outside friends and interests)- so how could I have completely different expectations in a friendship?

The person she was, that she told me she was, was very clear that our friendship would not fall to the side in favour of a man, that he would have to have his own life and her too, but this was before the man came into the picture.

Now I see someone who is so afraid that saying "No, I'm hanging out with my friend today, see you later" will result in him leaving her, she can't be the strong woman I know she is.

She's afraid that if she is not there unconditionally and at all times for him, that he will replace her.

My expectations have changed, but the forging-new-relationships part? Easier said than done. Growing up is such a bummer.

 

[Giggly]

BerberElla, I've been on both sides of that coin in the past so I understand this situation well.

Also, I hear voices.

 

[BerberElla]

BerberElla, I've been on both sides of that coin in the past so I understand this situation well.

Well I'm not as upset now as I was this morning, I realise now that I shouldn't have placed so much expectation on her and that she is still my friend in whatever capacity she can cope with.

I sort of forgot that as an introvert herself she could possibly be finding it draining too.

Now I remember why I liked this place.

Also, I hear voices.

I knew my telepathic powers were working.

 

[Giggly]

Well I'm not as upset now as I was this morning, I realise now that I shouldn't have placed so much expectation on her and that she is still my friend in whatever capacity she can cope with.

I sort of forgot that as an introvert herself she could possibly be finding it draining too.

Now I remember why I liked this place.

Tell her exactly how you feel and don't be embarrassed to say it. Like I said, I've been on the same side of the coin as your ISFJ friend in the past and I got told and it....worked.

 

[helen]

Hi! About ISFJs-- I have observed that although they are caring and loyal, they do not always have the intuitive ability to understand how much and what kind of nurturing a friendship needs, particularly when they are preoccupied by other events and relationships in their own lives. They are maybe not the greatest at entering imaginatively into the experience of another, but it isn't that they don't care-- sometimes they just need stuff spelled out to them. We are all clueless in different areas and in different times. I am sorry your friend's callousness is causing you pain right now but if she is truly your friend and not intentionally trying to drop you, I would say an honest communication of your feelings is definitely worth a shot. It may just change everything. I have had this experience with ISFJs before.

Good luck!

 

[Colors]

The person she was, that she told me she was, was very clear that our friendship would not fall to the side in favour of a man, that he would have to have his own life and her too, but this was before the man came into the picture.

Now I see someone who is so afraid that saying "No, I'm hanging out with my friend today, see you later" will result in him leaving her, she can't be the strong woman I know she is.

She's afraid that if she is not there unconditionally and at all times for him, that he will replace her.

That's really sad. I hope you can mend this bridge (Hmm and Helen seem to be giving good advice). Good luck.

 

[wordvarc]

Yes, this is typical ISFJ behavior.

Is it normal for an ISFJ to replace friends when something or someone better comes along?

I have, or feel like I had, a very close ISFJ friend. Having had so many crap friends in life, I honestly thought that this one would be a close friend right up until old age and death kicked in, and although I am sure we will remain "friends" for as long as I can handle the sort of friendship on offer now, it isn't the same.

Now I know that when your girlfriend starts a new relationship you can expect to lose out on some of the time you used to spend together, but it's more than that, now I get to spend no time with her whatsoever. Now I'm lucky if I get a quick phonecall when her man is out, or when she is upset with him. Other than that our friendship has taken a massive nose dive and I am struggling to make sense of it.

Is it that she had no real values when it came to friendship all along and I was too blind to see it?

It takes alot for me to commit myself to a friendship, and I also can't handle having more than one friend at a time so if a friendship goes belly up I am in deep doo doo because I have no one else to fall back on. I can't handle having aquaintances so any other budding friendship I ever had going on, I have faded out from because it's all too much for me. (makes me a pretty shit friend to others, maybe this is karma)

And no, I'm an INFP so I haven't said anything to her, I have just been letting it all build up inside knowing full well that I am likely to explode in anger anyday now.

Aside from being tossed to the side in favour of a 6'6", nicely packed where it matters, fella, she is fantastic, couldn't have asked for a better friend so it really surprised me to find out she could be so.........I want to say disloyal but the word doesn't quite fit, or fairwether friend, but even that doesn't quite fit, although I'm sure you get what I mean with all my ramblings.

Typical of an ISFJ, or just typical of women?

The ISFJ is loyal but only consistant if you are obvious daily in their small sensing world. If someone else comes along and you are no longer daily useful to their plans, you are dropped. They see this as practical and get confused and upset if their insensitivity is pointed out. The are sympathetic but not empathetic. They're sorry, even despairing, that you are hurt but don't feel the way most might empathise. In fact, they 'reason', "This is why having friends is too difficult;" then inform you, "This is hard for me too."

ISFJ's feel their own feeilngs deeply but have great trouble feeling empathy. They just see themselves as busy as you stand there and say "What happened?"

 

[wordvarc]

ISFJ's seem relationally autistic.

Hi! About ISFJs-- I have observed that although they are caring and loyal, they do not always have the intuitive ability to understand how much and what kind of nurturing a friendship needs, particularly when they are preoccupied by other events and relationships in their own lives. They are maybe not the greatest at entering imaginatively into the experience of another, but it isn't that they don't care-- sometimes they just need stuff spelled out to them. We are all clueless in different areas and in different times. I am sorry your friend's callousness is causing you pain right now but if she is truly your friend and not intentionally trying to drop you, I would say an honest communication of your feelings is definitely worth a shot. It may just change everything. I have had this experience with ISFJs before.

Good luck!

ISFJ's focus on organizing and controlling details in a relationship that seem absured in light of any shared purpose. Yet if those details are important to all parties and they are frequently validated, they will be great partners.

 

[Giggly]

Hi.

 

[wordvarc]

Hi back.