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Is there a certain type that is attracted to religion and serving religious causes?

What types favor religion? Are there some that get really religious?


  • Total voters
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Tilt

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I am an ENFJ atheist humanist, through and through. Also, part of the "child-free" mentality and am skeptical of marriage.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Definitely not my type. I am utterly revolted by organized religion and get physically sick in proximity of it. It is an external structure kind of thing, so it would seem that Je would be involved for MBTI and So instinct for Enneagram. The types for which imposed external structures are incompatible are not going to be especially fond of organized religion.
 

hurl3y4456

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I'd say if a type has the propensity, it would be Si dominants that would be drawn to it. Ne dominants consider multiple possibilities and hence, will be less likely to tie to one belief. Further, Ti dominants would be more likely to find contradictions and hence, discard beliefs more readily. Feelers are more easily swayed by the emotional energy of a crowd and hence, may actively pursue religion for the uplift...I voted ESFJ, but any type can be religious.
 

Drapeaux

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I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it. Atheism concerns itself with the concrete. Religion, on the other hand, is an abstract and imaginative endeavor, and its rules that dictate behaviour would provide a type of structure for people who otherwise might feel they would just sort of float away into the ether without a really tangible grasp on how to interact with life.
 

hurl3y4456

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I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it. Atheism concerns itself with the concrete. Religion, on the other hand, is an abstract and imaginative endeavor, and its rules that dictate behaviour would provide a type of structure for people who otherwise might feel they would just sort of float away into the ether without a really tangible grasp on how to interact with life.

Si is an abstract function (not necessarily confined to only the concrete)....If some text/verse has a positive impression on an Si user, he/she will memorize it for guidence/insight...My Dad is an Si user and is very routine and organized...He can also.delve into deep discussions and follow abstract thought, with exception of Mathematics.
 

raskol

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I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it.
Si is peculiar in the sense that it ties in with duty, responsibility, tradition, and cultural norms, which include some form of religiosity. Even a secular country like Sweden will demote the role of religion and the church to that of a public function (marriages, funerals, holiday observance, etc.).

In other words, it isn't religion as such but the way it ties in with tradition, family, and community that makes it central to Si dom and Fe dom, and ISFJs (SiFe) most of all.

There is also the haunting specter of having an INTJ superego, which forces wraith-like Ni outside of the conscious ego and into the hands of an internalized authority figure.
 

tinker683

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Si is peculiar in the sense that it ties in with duty, responsibility, tradition, and cultural norms, which include some form of religiosity. Even a secular country like Sweden will demote the role of religion and the church to that of a public function (marriages, funerals, holiday observance, etc.).

In other words, it isn't religion as such but the way it ties in with tradition, family, and community that makes it central to Si dom and Fe dom, and ISFJs (SiFe) most of all.

There is also the haunting specter of having an INTJ superego, which forces wraith-like Ni outside of the conscious ego and into the hands of an internalized authority figure.

As an ISFJ who started going to an Episcopal Church two years ago...this is actually pretty spot on for me.

I don't believe in the divinity of Jesus...but I do find the community there very warm, welcoming, and strengthening to be a part of.
 

Forest Nymph

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I have always been attracted to religion but in a non-religious way.

Let me explain, if you will.

I was raised very strict conservative Protestant Christian. By my teens I had discovered the existence of other religions, but even before then I noticed certain things like I felt more spiritual in nature sometimes than in church, and that I thought it was weird that my ISTJ grandfather though very strict about religious rules, was embarrassed by any kind of religious emotion through raised hands or whatever, to the point of smacking other family members down bodily, though feebly, if they tried.

As an adult I find Protestants to be the least spiritual of any religion I've tried. I think Hare Krishna/Christ Consciousness/Yoga and yes, strict Roman Catholicism come closest to any sort of spiritual feeling or ideal I've read about. They both have call and response, incense, candles, chants, prayers, and a really groovy sense of forgiveness and acceptance. Like both yoga studios and Catholic mass are okay with you coming to church drunk, your local Baptist church likely isn't.

And there is a "church" feel whether I personally feel it or not. It doesn't matter if it's my personal religion or the Lakota tribe of the Dakotas, or Mormons, I can FEEL when I am treading in a sacred space. See, what I've figured out is this has nothing to do with the pastor, the priest, or the guru, but the collective FAITH of the faithful. The raising of love and soul to G-d.

I can name things I don't like about a lot of religions. Especially that some very religious people aren't spiritual, and that's disturbing, they're people with OCD who have no heart open to a G-d energy. I think in the New Testament Jesus said without love your rules are like a clanging gong, something really discordant and annoying. That's super religious people without true spirituality, no matter their chosen branch.

I've honestly never tried Islam, I don't like their prophet, but I've met some very nice Muslim women and even watched them do their thing where they pray five times a day to the sun.

Even my own religions crack me up some times (yes I said religions plural). The Catholic church is disappointingly full of bureaucracy just as much as mysterious spirituality. And I've totally been to a Kirtan meeting where the guru sounds like Eddie Vedder. In fact that happens a lot in the Pacific Northwest. In the American South Jesus is Elvis, in the Middle Americas it's Johnny Cash or Kurt Cobain, and in the Pacific Northwest it's Eddie Vedder, despite his status of still living and breathing and being flawed.

I had this experience recently. The Eddie Vedder guru. It made things awkward at first but by the end of Kirtan everything was fine thanks to the entire group. Which is what I mean about the preacher not always mattering. Though sometimes s/he does, which is why I still prefer the Catholic church over Protestant, I like people who think and analyze the Bible in a way that is mature, educated, broad minded about history and science, and not literal.

The ironic thing is that I don't know if I would be this spiritual if I wasn't raised religious.
 

Forest Nymph

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I see a lot of people saying sensors or Si users would be most drawn to religion and I just don't see it. Atheism concerns itself with the concrete. Religion, on the other hand, is an abstract and imaginative endeavor, and its rules that dictate behaviour would provide a type of structure for people who otherwise might feel they would just sort of float away into the ether without a really tangible grasp on how to interact with life.

Well my ISTJ grandfather was very religious, he was your traditional ha ha Joseph from Wuthering Heights, not a main character, but an important character, ah there's a difference! Joseph isn't the star of the show but he strongly shapes the fate of Cathy and Heathcliff, and even subtly suggests the real beliefs of author The mature, educated reader walks away from Wuthering Heights knowing that Emily Bronte is the most serious Christian of all, despite the scandalous nature of the story itself. You've got to read the book from a distance, as an intellectual or a philosopher, as she apparently wrote it.

The Joseph is an ISTJ. He's a nasty man of rules and precision who seems to delight in an evil sort of sadism. We'd project Joseph on the modern Republican, but I wouldn't even give them that much credit. Joseph actually believed in God, and spent much of his time reading and praying, resolutely waking up early and working the land devoutly, attending church monthly on a wagon, not stealing money via taxes or oil companies. My grandpa was sort of like that. He was disgustingly, irritatingly rule-bound, but he was above all SINCERE. He had that tert Fi. He taught me how to read, history, geography, he came home to his family every single night after working hard all day. I never had a father figure who "disappeared" or "didn't have time for the family." He was there with an orange or a chocolate bar to watch the Muppet Show or the Facts of Life. We went to church every single Sunday like clockwork, and I always had the sense of him being spiritual. He was quiet, resolute, determined and always gardening, sleeping or reading religious texts in his free time. He was the real deal. He helpfully created a healthy version of the Si dom for me, an Si dom who is taken by structure but not by materialism or greed.

I think Si doms like the certainty of religion. Like Fi doms they could go either way. The Fi dom is either angry or enraptured, the Si dom is either dedicated or dismissive. My ISFJ roommate is dismissive of religion, but she still eats the same damn breakfast every day, if I ate the same breakfast and lunch every day I'd go fucking mad, but she plans it months in advance, always the same, and she's been with her man since high school.
 

Forest Nymph

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Also something creepy I've never shared is I have an old man friend over 70 since my grandpa died who grew up in LA, and is the epitome of Si dom a la LA....and despite the cultural diff he reminds me of gramps. He gets up in morning to read the Bible and eat the same oatmeal. He packs the same lunch. He eats the same microwave lasagna. On Friday he treats himself to a Subway sandwich. No, really.

He's grandpa without grandpa. He's grandpa visits LA. He's worked at the same job since he was 35, he eats the same meal every day for the past five or ten years, every night even though I left LA he says "Good night >>>>>" at exactly the same time every day. He changed and made it earlier when I worked on a campground that didn't allow WiFi and still hasn't stopped.

I LOVE Si doms. Like you have no idea how much I depend on them to feel loved and sane. But yeah, here's this guy. Of course he goes to church. Like a boss. And holds hands with his mentally disabled son as his art student daughter ignores him (I'm the older art student replacement daughter, understand.)
 

badatlife

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Elaboration:
It’s been said that type 2’s are often religious. It’s probably an image thing since they want to look “good”. As for the NF part, my experience is that most people don’t really take religion seriously and just keep it up for the sake of tradition. The people who tend to be really devoted are usually NF’s and also ISFPs, I find they tend to take their beliefs more seriously than most.
 

EcK

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brainwashed people mostly to start with, then it intersects with one's innate tendency for animism and correlates negatively with intellectual capacity.

For the reasons above I'm sure it correlates with type to a degree but it's too far removed from the causal roots to be relevant. Put any type in a world where religion is only introduced into adulthood and it they'd be unlikely to be religious without the early-life indoctrination
 

Lark

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brainwashed people mostly to start with, then it intersects with one's innate tendency for animism and correlates negatively with intellectual capacity.

For the reasons above I'm sure it correlates with type to a degree but it's too far removed from the causal roots to be relevant. Put any type in a world where religion is only introduced into adulthood and it they'd be unlikely to be religious without the early-life indoctrination

You've totally got the wrong playbook, maybe that's GURPS but in the AD&D playbook the Cleric class is far, far better than this description.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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For the reasons above I'm sure it correlates with type to a degree but it's too far removed from the causal roots to be relevant. Put any type in a world where religion is only introduced into adulthood and it they'd be unlikely to be religious without the early-life indoctrination


How did religions start then? If that were the case, I would think that would mean that humans would have been irreligious longer than they have been irreligious. I find that hard to believe based on history and the archaeology of prehistory.

What is the intellectual basis for "everyone is born an atheist"? The only evidence I can see is that specific religions are taught by society, but there are a lot of different conclusions one could draw from that.

From where I sit, people seem to retain all the negative tendencies of religion even when traditional religion is removed, such as in the U.S.S.R (and of course, traditional religion came back in a big way in the U.S.S.R once communism fell). Which makes me think that there's something about those negative tendencies that are more ingrained in human nature, if such a thing exists.
 

EcK

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How did religions start then? If that were the case, I would think that would mean that humans would have been irreligious longer than they have been irreligious. I find that hard to believe based on history and the archaeology of prehistory.

Like most things religion started 'bit by bit'. Humans have a natural tendency (some more than others) towards animism (ie: giving human qualities to the outside world) so it's natural for humans to give agency to their environment.
Give it enough time and you go from calling a storm 'angry' to complex sets of superstitions to organized religion. I don't equate religion with belief in the supernatural by the way. So when i say religion is do mean religion as it is conceptualized today.

What is the intellectual basis for "everyone is born an atheist"? The only evidence I can see is that specific religions are taught by society, but there are a lot of different conclusions one could draw from that.
I never stated that, i simply stated that if people were not indoctrinated into religion in their early years religiosity would probably almost disappear, however I'm pretty sure people would still be superstitious (probably even more than now)
You can't be born with culture, culture is acquired after birth (stating the obvious yes). Though I guess that if one uses a negative definition of the word (absence of belief rather than belief of absence), yeah, kids are born 'atheistic' as they don't have a belief in god, they are then indoctrinated into whatever belief their parents and environment deem correct.


From where I sit, people seem to retain all the negative tendencies of religion even when traditional religion is removed, such as in the U.S.S.R (and of course, traditional religion came back in a big way in the U.S.S.R once communism fell). Which makes me think that there's something about those negative tendencies that are more ingrained in human nature, if such a thing exists.
Yep agreed. I don't think just 'getting rid of religion' is some kind of magic fix either.
 

EcK

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You've totally got the wrong playbook, maybe that's GURPS but in the AD&D playbook the Cleric class is far, far better than this description.

: P
Okey I've never played any of these so couldn't tell. But yeah if magic was real I'm sure devout people would have neat powers.
 

Lark

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How did religions start then? If that were the case, I would think that would mean that humans would have been irreligious longer than they have been irreligious. I find that hard to believe based on history and the archaeology of prehistory.

What is the intellectual basis for "everyone is born an atheist"? The only evidence I can see is that specific religions are taught by society, but there are a lot of different conclusions one could draw from that.

From where I sit, people seem to retain all the negative tendencies of religion even when traditional religion is removed, such as in the U.S.S.R (and of course, traditional religion came back in a big way in the U.S.S.R once communism fell). Which makes me think that there's something about those negative tendencies that are more ingrained in human nature, if such a thing exists.

Bertrand Russell used to talk about there being protestant and catholic atheists after they had come to atheism because he thought that the stamp of culture lasted longer than people thought, even the people themselves involved.

Ironically, Hilaire Belloc said something very similar, in the great heresys he talked about a "spirit of protestantism", I found it very interesting because he's not simply talking about agitators or a sort of "perennial opposition", people be begin as intractable opponents but at the first opportunity will become the greatest defenders or greatest conservatives in a "new order" they think is of their making, there's a bunch of examples that I'm sure anyone can think of. I'm sure that election cycles work with this kind of thing, avoid war of the roses style struggles of succession etc.

I do think that religion, politics, ideology, whatever becomes a channel for something much more fundamental.

Jung's theories of archetypes and his idea of the unconscious as a mandela of different complexes, ie archetypes which have been integrated, I think is one good illustration of the idea, there are others, less spiritual or esoteric perhaps.

When people attack religion or clericism or organisation or institutions or whatever they're mistaking the symbolic or picture for the thing itself I reckon.

Also I think this type of thing just happens, atheists trash religious people the way that religious people, sometimes, trash atheists, not so much anymore, at least I dont see it myself. I have read a couple of authors, like Hans Kuhn, who, without being totally disrespectful or anything, have suggested that things like attachment style do influence peoples predilections for religion or secularism. I think that's right.

I've read a good book on attachment lately which deals with that and I think a family with father, mother, siblings, secure parental and sibling bonds can provide certain patterns, expectations etc. Maybe an atheist could or would suggest it creates unwitting optimism and a predilection for delusion. I dont see much value in those sorts of circular discussions though. The author of the book does go on about a lot of things like "being saved" and uses a pretty unique language that doesnt mean much to me and I think is really unhelpful but its tradition, not mine and I'm fine with that.

One thing I would say is that its pretty lazy a lot of the time the trashing that I do read.

- - - Updated - - -

: P
Okey I've never played any of these so couldn't tell. But yeah if magic was real I'm sure devout people would have neat powers.

:D

Magic.

You know what they say about magic.
 

EcK

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Taking out the big guns, I see :coffee:
Bertrand Russell used to talk about there being protestant and catholic atheists after they had come to atheism because he thought that the stamp of culture lasted longer than people thought, even the people themselves involved.
yep totally in agreement with you there. Atheistic christians, jews, muslims still often seem to espouse many of the traits and values associated with said religion. It's kind of like entropy. Once you pour the Dye into the water you can never really separate the two again.


Ironically, Hilaire Belloc said something very similar, in the great heresys he talked about a "spirit of protestantism", I found it very interesting because he's not simply talking about agitators or a sort of "perennial opposition", people be begin as intractable opponents but at the first opportunity will become the greatest defenders or greatest conservatives in a "new order" they think is of their making, there's a bunch of examples that I'm sure anyone can think of. I'm sure that election cycles work with this kind of thing, avoid war of the roses style struggles of succession etc.

I do think that religion, politics, ideology, whatever becomes a channel for something much more fundamental.
Yes i see alot of this happening now, there is a limited 'rebirth' of traditional values coming from people or the types of people who in the early 2000s would reject religion and all it's related cultural elements. Hell I see that in myself to a degree, where, despite finding the descriptions of the supernatural supplied by Christianity to be bordering on the absurd, I recognize many of the positive aspects of christianity compared to other religions' cultural baggage.

Jung's theories of archetypes and his idea of the unconscious as a mandela of different complexes, ie archetypes which have been integrated, I think is one good illustration of the idea, there are others, less spiritual or esoteric perhaps.


When people attack religion or clericism or organisation or institutions or whatever they're mistaking the symbolic or picture for the thing itself I reckon.[/quote]
care to build on that idea? Not quite grasping your meaning.

Also I think this type of thing just happens, atheists trash religious people the way that religious people, sometimes, trash atheists, not so much anymore, at least I dont see it myself. I have read a couple of authors, like Hans Kuhn, who, without being totally disrespectful or anything, have suggested that things like attachment style do influence peoples predilections for religion or secularism. I think that's right.
Interesting. I've never consider it from that particular perspective. For me it's about animism and our tendency, as individuals with agency, to want to give our environment agency. But your perspective is intriguing. Care to elaborate?

I've read a good book on attachment lately which deals with that and I think a family with father, mother, siblings, secure parental and sibling bonds can provide certain patterns, expectations etc. Maybe an atheist could or would suggest it creates unwitting optimism and a predilection for delusion. I dont see much value in those sorts of circular discussions though. The author of the book does go on about a lot of things like "being saved" and uses a pretty unique language that doesnt mean much to me and I think is really unhelpful but its tradition, not mine and I'm fine with that.

One thing I would say is that its pretty lazy a lot of the time the trashing that I do read.

- - - Updated - - -
I do think that how people picture god has alot to do with how they view their parents. There is a paternalistic feel to the Abrahamic god.


:D

Magic.

You know what they say about magic.
That's it's magic?
That any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic?
That you can spend a fortune collecting these damn magic the gathering cards and you might as well just buy them by the unit in a specialized store?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Bertrand Russell used to talk about there being protestant and catholic atheists after they had come to atheism because he thought that the stamp of culture lasted longer than people thought, even the people themselves involved.


yep totally in agreement with you there. Atheistic christians, jews, muslims still often seem to espouse many of the traits and values associated with said religion. It's kind of like entropy. Once you pour the Dye into the water you can never really separate the two again.
I've actually noticed this myself, and I actually feel relieved to know that it's not my original idea, so I can be sure that I'm not pulling things out of my ass.


Interesting. I've never consider it from that particular perspective. For me it's about animism and our tendency, as individuals with agency, to want to give our environment agency. But your perspective is intriguing. Care to elaborate?


I do think that how people picture god has alot to do with how they view their parents. There is a paternalistic feel to the Abrahamic god.

Definitely.
 
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