[Fe] Is Fe fake or manipulative?

[jixmixfix]

I think it can be, every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice. Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.

 

[Viridian]

There is a distinction to be made here - "is" vs. "can be". Healthy Fe is devoted and selfless. Unhealthy Fe, OTOH, is a real trap:

* They offer to do everything for you;
* If you don't accept, you are being dismissive and cold-hearted, rejecting their earnest expressions of love;
* If you do accept, you are in their debt for all eternity and any disagreement with them is tantamount to selfish betrayal.

I'm talking about Fe-doms here... Dunno how it manifests unhealthily in IxFJs.

Point is, Fe isn't inherently manipulative and leech-like, just like Fi isn't inherently selfish or mercurial.

 

[Rail Tracer]

I think it can be, every time I see someone with strong Fe I wonder why they are trying to be so nice. Furthermore they are always so pushy in promoting their Fe in others.

Fake? No.

Manipulative? It can be. Depends how it is used.

EDIT: As Viridian described.

 

[Elfboy]

fake: often, but a lot of the time it just looks fake
manipulative: usually
guilt trippy: frequently
mail mailing: less frequently (more in NFJs, it's also an Ni thing)
invasive: almost always

 

[prplchknz]

it can be.

 

[Unkindloving]

It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.

 

[Elfboy]

It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.

when I said Fe is manipulative and intrusive, this is what I meant.
Edit: all manipulative people say this by the way, whether they're controlling parents, intrusive authority figures or dictators

 

[Unkindloving]

when I said Fe is manipulative and intrusive, this is what I meant.
Edit: all manipulative people say this by the way, whether they're controlling parents, intrusive authority figures or dictators

I don't think they admit to actually manipulating. They'll leave that word so far out of the equation, but definitely rock the sentiment of externalizing it.
I've definitely had a lot of discussions about it, and how it can come across to types that don't like feeling as if they are being told what to do. I see a lot of ENFJs saying "This is your point A.. and this is your point B.. and this is what you should do to get there." Said others will reject it, do the round-about until it's either ruined or until the 'point a point b' advice actually resonates as if they'd come up with it on their own. That sounds.. hmm.. but it's more of a self-assessing fact-checker system and I've seen it a lot in INFPs that I've dealt with. They don't feel comfortable until they have weighed out all of the options, even if they end up at the option I started them with. It's definitely thorough, at least.
ESFJs I've witnessed tend to play off their manipulation off as being good for the manipulated, but I always see it being self-benefiting and/or too much of tradition, not enough individual. While they may be dead on in the sense of traditional means to get from point A to point B, it just seems like it is so rarely in tune enough. Course, that is from my ENFJ perspective of 'different people, different solutions'. They just tend to make my skin crawl a lot.
INFJ Fe can turn parental, but it also means well. I've never found it to come across as self-benefiting. It's just heavy in concern and questioning in a number of cases. I don't even have a strong urge to call it manipulative, but it does seem to strike an 'unintentionally swaying' chord.

 

[Elfboy]

I don't think they admit to actually manipulating. They'll leave that word so far out of the equation, but definitely rock the sentiment of externalizing it.
I've definitely had a lot of discussions about it, and how it can come across to types that don't like feeling as if they are being told what to do. I see a lot of ENFJs saying "This is your point A.. and this is your point B.. and this is what you should do to get there." Said others will reject it, do the round-about until it's either ruined or until the 'point a point b' advice actually resonates as if they'd come up with it on their own. That sounds.. hmm.. but it's more of a self-assessing fact-checker system and I've seen it a lot in INFPs that I've dealt with. They don't feel comfortable until they have weighed out all of the options, even if they end up at the option I started them with. It's definitely thorough, at least.
ESFJs I've witnessed tend to play off their manipulation off as being good for the manipulated, but I always see it being self-benefiting and/or too much of tradition, not enough individual. While they may be dead on in the sense of traditional means to get from point A to point B, it just seems like it is so rarely in tune enough. Course, that is from my ENFJ perspective of 'different people, different solutions'. They just tend to make my skin crawl a lot.
INFJ Fe can turn parental, but it also means well. I've never found it to come across as self-benefiting. It's just heavy in concern and questioning in a number of cases. I don't even have a strong urge to call it manipulative, but it does seem to strike an 'unintentionally swaying' chord.

self benefit is not the issue. manipulation for self benefit is no worse than manipulation "for their own good"

 

[cascadeco]

These threads crack me up.

Yes, dom-Fe CAN be manipulative, in ways unique to Fe, just as dom-Si CAN be manipulative, just as dom-Fi CAN be manipulative, and dom-Ne.... and so on.

*Every person on this planet* no matter what their type can be deemed by others as manipulative. Half the time the so-called Manipulator might be very conscious of what he/she's doing, so know they're trying to bring about a certain situation/result, and the other half of the time they might not be doing anything of the sort, and they're merely labeled that way because the other person operates differently and therefore reads the 'manipulators' actions through their own lens, and misjudge intent.

 

[Resonance]

It can be fake, easily - just find me at work when I'm feeling down >.< Does that mean it's fake when I'm actually feeling the way I express? For a while, it seemed like this was the case, but I think that's because I was depressed despite it being one of my 'better days'.

Can it be manipulative? Depends what you mean by 'manipulative'... I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation? Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy? Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?

 

[INTP]

i dont think my Fe is fake or manipulative in any ways.

 

[Elfboy]

It can be fake, easily - just find me at work when I'm feeling down >.< Does that mean it's fake when I'm actually feeling the way I express? For a while, it seemed like this was the case, but I think that's because I was depressed despite it being one of my 'better days'.

Can it be manipulative? Depends what you mean by 'manipulative'...

I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation?

no

Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy?

yes

Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?

no.

 

[InvisibleJim]

It appears most fake/manipulative in the ExTP tertiary because PoLR Fi means they avoid introspecting the consequences and what it says about themselves.

 

[sculpting]

It's not fake, but it is almost always going to look it if it's tuned into. It can be like a switch that is flipped in an instant, which is why it looks fake and can come out like a string of generic response, but it's typically a genuine reaction that isn't forced.
Manipulative? Yes, but for a variety of reasons and on many different levels. It can be for the benefit of the manipulator or the benefit of the manipulated. If I am manipulating someone on a normal level, it is going to tend to be for the betterment of themselves, opposed to something that I can gain from it. Actually, even my high levels of manipulation tend to be for the betterment of the other person, but they can be very rough tactics that seem selfish in purpose. Sometimes that is because people need an external enemy that is pinpointing the enemy that is themselves. Sometimes it begets more understanding and progress.
Eh I'm in energy-drink-hangover mode, so will wait before more thought occurs.

^^I like these answers.

Yes, Fe can be influential and seek to change things, just as Te does. Both are about logistical control of folks around them, typically, for the best intended outcome.

Both can be used abusively and can hurt others as they attempt to control for their own selfish aims or even accidently as they attempt to control for what they perceive to be the betterment of others.

Personally I kinda dig the ESFJs more than the ENFJs, as the ESFJs promptly put me in the "freaky ass weird, but seemingly harmless" box, while the ENFJs try and help me, which is kind, but seems to be a lost cause, thus eventually i drive them insane.

It feels very manipulative, as my feelings very rarely can be changed or influenced in a direct "you should feel this" way-thus the more strongly another tells me my feelings are wrong, the more strongly I will rebel against them and block their access to my feelings. I just disregard them as being overly emotional and illogical, thus keep waiting for them to calm down and be more reasonable. Hehe, Fe FAIL.

Oddly, the easy way to access my emotions and cause an immediate 180 degree change in my behavior is to say "your actions make me feel hurt." This prompts an immediate analysis on my part of the action, the impact, how I can make up for the action and if I should modify my stance on the value.

 

[NiteSite]

Saying that Fe is manipulative and fake is ridiculous, how do you connect to people at all if not on a shallow level first? Connecting with people on a deep deep level instantly just doesn't happen very often...that is why you "get to know" people and not "just know" people.

People are fake and manipulative. Not just people with Fe. Jeez.

 

[Elfboy]

Saying that Fe is manipulative and fake is ridiculous, how do you connect to people at all if not on a shallow level first? Connecting with people on a deep deep level instantly just doesn't happen very often...that is why you "get to know" people and not "just know" people.

there is nothing wrong with connecting with people on a shallow level first, but lots of people actually can connect on a deep level first (actually, this has happened with most NFPs I've known).

People are fake and manipulative. Not just people with Fe. Jeez

one would think that was to be implied, but you're right, speaking as a sexually manipulative ENFP I think the strongest correlated trait with manipulation is actually extroversion.

 

[Resonance]

no

yes


no.

um... I was kind of hoping for more than a 1-word explanation, especially since they don't match up...

 

[Elfboy]

certainly

I mean, keeping someone in a calm, receptive state so that they aren't closed off to new ideas, that's basic diplomacy but is it manipulation

no because of the intent. manipulation would be actually be doing the opposite and emotionally goading someone to act on impulse instead of logic and prudence

Is it manipulation to prevent conflicts between abrasive people by keeping everyone happy?

yes, because it is attempting to cause people to make a decision based on their emotions and not about solving the actual issue. some conflict is healthy and issues need to be solved. appeals to people's emotions to "get along" will only cause further grief

Is it manipulation to help someone overcome their depression so that they can be more of a benefit to others in their life - including you?

no, it's a called therapy and NFs have been doing it for 100,000s of years
that's called win/win or no deal. doing things for one's own best interest that also helps others is MORE morally desirable than acting strictly in the other person's best interests.

 

[Glycerine]

Everyone manipulates and I would argue that most people to some degree are "fake". To not, is not to be living. Just by the way each person uses their tone, body language, facial expressions to indirectly/directly affect how others react to us.