Is America great now?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

More like everyone credits everyone but Trump, for what he has done. It is unreasonable, and illogical to say all positive things in the Trump's presidency was because of Obama, because the same things could have been said about Obama benifitting from a Bush economy etc. They claimed Obama ended the recession 1 year after being in office. Wouldn't it have taken years to come into effect based on the standard they hold Trump to? Obama's stimulus package was non-existant compared to Trump's...yet people say Trump's has no effect? If there is one thing Trump can claim positively, it's jobs and the economy. And just because you disagree with certain policies, that doesn't mean other people don't see those policies as positive. It's really subjective at the end of the day.

Hey, there's one thing I know, and it's that this country is in the worst shape in my life time under the "make America great" president. I've talked about coronavirus. What about law and order? I suppose it's possible that the economy will bounce back to the way it was before this summer, but I doubt it.

The recovery while Obama was in office was largely a jobless recovery. They just called a recovery because the stock market was doing better, but nobody else was really benefiting. What I'll be keeping my eye on over the summer is the unemployment numbers. Will they continue to fall? What rate will they do so at? What about wages?

 

[Maou]

He did kind of bring everything into the open, didn't he?

My "discussion" with my uncle was started because I posted about how good it was that AOC won the primary again. He started trolling me (as is often the case), so I decided to troll him back. I told him that that one thing that has happened under Trump's reign is astronomical rise of the DSA, and that there are going to be more AOCs going forward. "Enjoy " I told him. I think that really cheesed him off, because he kept responding to statements later in the discussion by saying "enjoy". He didn't really have anything to say that wasn't Fox News/ talk radio talking points that I haven't heard a zillion times before. Like about how all the "worst places" are Democrat-run and I should move to Venezuela, etc, etc. It was very amusing. It's basically like you're always "discussing" with the same person; despite thinking of themselves as supporters of "individualism," they all talk exactly the same.

How can you even support AOC when she literally supports gulags for conservatives and other retarded policies like abolishing boarders? Literally anyone was better than her, even an actual Democrat. She is the prime example of the rot thats infested the Democratic party. Her reelection shows the increase in radicalization of the Democrats as well. It's like you've never read her twitter. She's almost as bad as Trump.

I also like how you give people shit for using topics from a news source, when you literally do the same exact thing. It being a talking point, doesn't suddenly delegitimize it as an argument. If it is so obvious what is correct, then just refute the point. If they dont listen, you are probably being condescending or rude and not acknowledging their concerns at all. So they don't bother to try to have an open conversation with you.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

How can you even support AOC when she literally supports gulags for conservatives and other retarded policies like abolishing boarders? Literally anyone was better than her, even an actual Democrat. She is the prime example of the rot thats infested the Democratic party. Her reelection shows the increase in radicalization of the Democrats as well. It's like you've never read her twitter. She's almost as bad as Trump.

I also like how you give people shit for using topics from a news source, when you literally do the same exact thing. It being a talking point, doesn't suddenly delegitimize it as an argument. If it is so obvious what is correct, then just refute the point. If they dont listen, you are probably being condescending or rude and not acknowledging their concerns at all. So they don't bother to try to have an open conversation with you.

I believe she means well for the country. She doesn't want gulags for conservatives, lol.

You're correct, though, that I didn't read her twitter. I'm not a twitter user. I learned about her win because I "like" her on Facebook. Certainly she's been an important figure in getting me to follow politics again. I kind of like that she triggers conservatives, too. Owning cons is always good.

 

[Maou]

Hey, there's one thing I know, and it's that this country is in the worst shape in my life time under the "make America great" president. I've talked about coronavirus. What about law and order? I suppose it's possible that the economy will bounce back to the way it was before this summer, but I doubt it.

The recovery while Obama was in office was largely a jobless recovery. They just called a recovery because the stock market was doing better, but nobody else was really benefiting. What I'll be keeping my eye on over the summer is the unemployment numbers. Will they continue to fall? What rate will they do so at? What about wages?

The state of unrest was going to happen regardless of who was president. Social tensions rise and fall constantly. Remember Ferguson? Remember 2016 unrest? The only reason it's worse now, is covid built up tension, and the riots are a coordinated co-op by anarchists and antifa taking advantage of chaos. Nothing Trump could do, would help this situation. As for Law and Order, Trump supported peaceful protests, and the police. But he doesn't support vandalism. If you were in his shoes, what would you do? If he does anything to restore order, he is fascist and racist, because he would have to use the military. If he does nothing, he is racist and not doing anything to restore order or amend the idea of institutionalized racism. He can't pass those laws, the states have to. Which they are. The fed shouldn't hold the hands of the states so much, so I feel Trump's encouragement of the states using their own power to solve the problem was for the best.

Covid Unemployment ends in July, so I'd wait till the end of August for rising numbers. People at work right now are mad, because they could have gotten more money not working. Plenty of places still have hireing freezes too. Blue states won't open all the way guaranteed, to intentionally harm the economy. Red states are already opened. So the numbers will be skewed by that as well. So look at states for both employment and unemployment rates. As for wages, it depends on several factors. I don't think they will go up generally, because of the losses many places incured need to recover. They might even go down, due to convid's impact. But I also don't think it will last that long. There is also a lot of shifting, where some wages in one sector are going up, while others are going down.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The one President in my lifetime who actually balanced the budget (which Republicans claim is important) is loathed by Republicans as the chief example of the evils of the Democrat party.

Somehow I don't think the "radicalization" of Democrats is the issue.

 

[Maou]

I believe she means well for the country. She doesn't want gulags for conservatives, lol.

You're correct, though, that I didn't read her twitter. I'm not a twitter user. I learned about her win because I "like" her on Facebook. Certainly she's been an important figure in getting me to follow politics again. I kind of like that she triggers conservatives, too. Owning cons is always good.

Lol, she is the Left's Alex Jones. Maxine Waters is up there too.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The state of unrest was going to happen regardless of who was president. Social tensions rise and fall constantly. Remember Ferguson? Remember 2016 unrest? The only reason it's worse now, is covid built up tension, and the riots are a coordinated co-op by anarchists and antifa taking advantage of chaos. Nothing Trump could do, would help this situation. As for Law and Order, Trump supported peaceful protests, and the police.

He didn't encourage peaceful protests. Remember Kaepernick and how Trump wouldn't shut up about that? He wasn't even blocking traffic or disrupting anyone's lives in any way (unless you consider emotional triggering to be disruption). Retroactively saying you support peaceful protests after shitting on them for saying that they are unpatriotic or disruptive after things have started getting more violent doesn't count.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

No. The guy is the dumbest, most ignorant, self centered and incompetent leader this country will ever know.

I hope so.

 

[rav3n]

No. The guy is the dumbest, most ignorant, self centered and incompetent leader this country will ever know.

YES! Glad to see that your vision's crystal clear now. Trump's a malignant narcissist and the next four and a half months will only get worse until he's ousted. And even if he's been ousted, the best everyone can hope for until Biden takes office, is a lame duck transition until Jan. 20, 2021 but it's likely going to get uglier since McConnell won't block him. Sadly, even if McConnell's been ousted, he remains in power until Jan. 3rd.

I can't decide if I'm more terrified about the transition or a possible second term for Trump.

 

[Maou]

He didn't encourage peaceful protests. Remember Kaepernick and how Trump wouldn't shut up about that? He wasn't even blocking traffic or disrupting anyone's lives in any way (unless you consider emotional triggering to be disruption). Retroactively saying you support peaceful protests after shitting on them for saying that they are unpatriotic or disruptive after things have started getting more violent doesn't count.

He did, but was sensored. He posted a video that was removed the day of so no one could see it.

At the 1:50 mark, he supports peaceful protests. The beginning, he denounces riots and co-ops as well.

Kaepernick disgraced himself, by disgracing the Nation, by politicizing sacred tradition. Professionalism in any national organization is a must. Would you hold a protest at a funeral? A wedding? Some things should not be politisiced or become platforms for politics. Some things should be escapes from politics. Sports is one of them. Its selfish, and not a legitimate form of protest.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Kaepernick disgraced himself, by disgracing the Nation, by politicizing sacred tradition. Professionalism in any national organization is a must. Would you hold a protest at a funeral? A wedding? Some things should not be politisiced or become platforms for politics. Some things should be escapes from politics. Sports is one of them. Its selfish, and not a legitimate form of protest.

Sorry, he was peacefully protesting. Just because it triggered you doesn't mean it wasn't a peaceful protest. If you don't support that, you don't support peaceful protests. It's just political theater if you oppose that kind of thing but then claim you're in favor of peaceful protests once things start getting violent.

The true meaning is that you don't actually want people protesting about this at all.

I mean, what else could it actually mean if you oppose peaceful protests when they're happening, and then when things get more violent, say "I support peaceful protests"? He didn't support peaceful protests when the peaceful protests were happening. He only supported peaceful protest after things started getting more violent.

 

[Maou]

Sorry, he was peacefully protesting. Just because it triggered you doesn't mean it wasn't a peaceful protest. If you don't support that, you don't support peaceful protests. It's just political theater if you oppose that kind of thing but then claim you're in favor of peaceful protests once things start getting violent.

The true meaning is that you don't actually want people protesting about this at all.

I mean, what else could it actually mean if you oppose peaceful protests when they're happening, and then when things get more violent, say "I support peaceful protests"? He didn't support peaceful protests when the peaceful protests were happening. He only supported peaceful protest after things started getting more violent.

I just think there is a time and place for everything, and forcing people to hear you when they are trying to escape politics is selfish. He could have done it literally anywhere else. There were so many better options to be heard better. Also, quit holding protestingup, like its always justified, it's not. It has become worthless and meaningless over the years, because people keep protesting without making clear their reason for it, or is something extremly vague. Its become all disorganized emotional outburst without rational thought behind it.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Yes, of course.
It was great before Trump, and it is still great, despite Trump.

 

[ceecee]

The world is putting America in quarantine

So much winning.

 

[highlander]

The state of unrest was going to happen regardless of who was president. Social tensions rise and fall constantly. Remember Ferguson? Remember 2016 unrest? The only reason it's worse now, is covid built up tension, and the riots are a coordinated co-op by anarchists and antifa taking advantage of chaos. Nothing Trump could do, would help this situation. As for Law and Order, Trump supported peaceful protests, and the police. But he doesn't support vandalism. If you were in his shoes, what would you do? If he does anything to restore order, he is fascist and racist, because he would have to use the military. If he does nothing, he is racist and not doing anything to restore order or amend the idea of institutionalized racism. He can't pass those laws, the states have to. Which they are. The fed shouldn't hold the hands of the states so much, so I feel Trump's encouragement of the states using their own power to solve the problem was for the best. Covid Unemployment ends in July, so I'd wait till the end of August for rising numbers. People at work right now are mad, because they could have gotten more money not working. Plenty of places still have hireing freezes too. Blue states won't open all the way guaranteed, to intentionally harm the economy. Red states are already opened. So the numbers will be skewed by that as well. So look at states for both employment and unemployment rates. As for wages, it depends on several factors. I don't think they will go up generally, because of the losses many places incured need to recover. They might even go down, due to convid's impact. But I also don't think it will last that long. There is also a lot of shifting, where some wages in one sector are going up, while others are going down.

Either way you look at it he has fueled the flames of division and decisiveness- and that includes making racism worse in the country. What could he have done? Not say stupid fucking things about different minorities, act particularly disrespectful to women reporters, mocked disabled people or people who are overweight, or basically anyone who disagreed with him, etc.

 

[Red Memories]

The state of unrest was going to happen regardless of who was president. Social tensions rise and fall constantly. Remember Ferguson? Remember 2016 unrest? The only reason it's worse now, is covid built up tension, and the riots are a coordinated co-op by anarchists and antifa taking advantage of chaos. Nothing Trump could do, would help this situation. As for Law and Order, Trump supported peaceful protests, and the police. But he doesn't support vandalism. If you were in his shoes, what would you do? If he does anything to restore order, he is fascist and racist, because he would have to use the military. If he does nothing, he is racist and not doing anything to restore order or amend the idea of institutionalized racism. He can't pass those laws, the states have to. Which they are. The fed shouldn't hold the hands of the states so much, so I feel Trump's encouragement of the states using their own power to solve the problem was for the best.

Covid Unemployment ends in July, so I'd wait till the end of August for rising numbers. People at work right now are mad, because they could have gotten more money not working. Plenty of places still have hireing freezes too. Blue states won't open all the way guaranteed, to intentionally harm the economy. Red states are already opened. So the numbers will be skewed by that as well. So look at states for both employment and unemployment rates. As for wages, it depends on several factors. I don't think they will go up generally, because of the losses many places incured need to recover. They might even go down, due to convid's impact. But I also don't think it will last that long. There is also a lot of shifting, where some wages in one sector are going up, while others are going down.

My state is also having a horrible second wave spike right now, particularly because too we have a bunch of foreigners here for the recreational attraction. I see so many plates from Washington, Florida, Utah, fuck I saw WVA yesterday. The bars are causing a huge spike. Honestly, it is smarter to take the phasing more slowly. We were doing okay in phase 3 before the bars and everything was completely reopen. Some stores have basically thrown caution to the wind and got rid of a bunch of the stuff they were doing to keep people distancing. They've made it harder to protect yourself. I feel like I'd rather us still be closed back a bit. Not completely but, this is too fast. Especially with state to state travel. These people are gonna flee their heavy populated states and come to rural areas to escape that didn't have as many cases i.e. my state that is now getting like 100 new cases a day just for our population. Our numbers don't account for any foreigner coming here and giving it to everyone else. I'm damn sick of this covid hoax crap.

But to a certain degree I also agree on the point civil unrest was a bit imminent. But I think an issue too is, the unrest from Ferguson and etc. led to no changes. So they're even more pissed off now. And Trump is not exactly a diplomatic type. So he says the dumbest shit on twitter at the worst times.

 

[Maou]

Either way you look at it he has fueled the flames of division and decisiveness- and that includes making racism worse in the country. What could he have done? Not say stupid fucking things about different minorities, act particularly disrespectful to women reporters, mocked disabled people or people who are overweight, or basically anyone who disagreed with him, etc.

Thats bullshit, and its always those he insults who attack him first. Its all devisive rhetoric, where the media and others attack him first, then whine like the dogs they are when he attacks them back screaming he is being mean to them. No one actually cares what rhetoric Trump uses, and it doesn't matter either. They will still hate him. People will still be divided, since it's a polarized political climate. If he was nice, he would be ignored or still at fault. He can't get a message out without hyjacking controversy to use the media. Simple as that. If itcwas so fucking bad, the media is more at fault for reporting what he says. But no, they do it because they make money off of Trump, and secretly love him.

 

[Red Memories]

Thats bullshit, and its always those he insults who attack him first. Its all devisive rhetoric, where the media and others attack him first, then whine like the dogs they are when he attacks them back screaming he is being mean to them. No one actually cares what rhetoric Trump uses, and it doesn't matter either. They will still hate him. People will still be divided, since it's a polarized political climate. If he was nice, he would be ignored or still at fault. He can't get a message out without hyjacking controversy to use the media. Simple as that. If itcwas so fucking bad, the media is more at fault for reporting what he says. But no, they do it because they make money off of Trump, and secretly love him.

Oh the mainstream media is absolutely ridiculous with the way they do journalism period these days. But part of being diplomatic is knowing when to shut the fuck up. Trump's ego is why he has to respond to all this and he really should not because he's feeding the flames of a war he cannot win. that's why most candidates DON'T do what he does in response.

 

[Maou]

My state is also having a horrible second wave spike right now, particularly because too we have a bunch of foreigners here for the recreational attraction. I see so many plates from Washington, Florida, Utah, fuck I saw WVA yesterday. The bars are causing a huge spike. Honestly, it is smarter to take the phasing more slowly. We were doing okay in phase 3 before the bars and everything was completely reopen. Some stores have basically thrown caution to the wind and got rid of a bunch of the stuff they were doing to keep people distancing. They've made it harder to protect yourself. I feel like I'd rather us still be closed back a bit. Not completely but, this is too fast. Especially with state to state travel. These people are gonna flee their heavy populated states and come to rural areas to escape that didn't have as many cases i.e. my state that is now getting like 100 new cases a day just for our population. Our numbers don't account for any foreigner coming here and giving it to everyone else. I'm damn sick of this covid hoax crap.

But to a certain degree I also agree on the point civil unrest was a bit imminent. But I think an issue too is, the unrest from Ferguson and etc. led to no changes. So they're even more pissed off now. And Trump is not exactly a diplomatic type. So he says the dumbest shit on twitter at the worst times.

Yeah each state is different, and should go at a rate that suits them. I personally don't trust the covid numbers, as many are labeling the cause of death as covid, despite other factors causing their death before it. Just because they tested positive later (to avoid taxes and fees, as a result of high priced medical care) Then, there is a lot of shady shit going on with covid quarintine, and nursing homes. Yeah, people shouldn't be traveling, but I can't blame them. At this point, covid has to run its full course before it will settle down. Our hospitals are not being overwhelmed, so I don't think trying to slow the spread will really accomplish much until there is a vaccine. There might never be a vaccine as well. We can't really hault all livelihood forever. More and more people don't care if they catch it.

The changes did happen this time around, but things are only escalating. Because it has been co-opted by anarchists. Yes, Trump sucks at being a diplomat, and can be very insensative. But I don't expect him to be perfect, and I never seem him as the uniting type. He does try though, so I forgive him even if he fails. Because he is human after all, and that aspect of aggressiveness is part of his personality. It hasn't changed since I voted for him. I got what I voted for. I don't understand why its so hard for people to see the humanity of Trump, just because he is unconventional.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Thats bullshit, and its always those he insults who attack him first.

i don't remember Kaepernick insulting him before he started going on about him.

- - - Updated - - -

I just think there is a time and place for everything, and forcing people to hear you when they are trying to escape politics is selfish. He could have done it literally anywhere else. There were so many better options to be heard better. Also, quit holding protestingup, like its always justified, it's not. It has become worthless and meaningless over the years, because people keep protesting without making clear their reason for it, or is something extremly vague. Its become all disorganized emotional outburst without rational thought behind it.

That attitude is why the protests stopped being peaceful. Now I guess it goes from "protests are stupid and a disgrace" to "I support peaceful protests."