[MBTI General] INTP + INFJ

[RaptorWizard]

I don't like FJ types because they are so dang hung up on those accursed value judgments!

 

[Tiltyred]

Wish I had a nice INTP.

 

[Maxcool131]

It's definitely wasn't the lack of love on either party, but it was both of our first serious relationship and I think we mutually understood that we needed to part both ways in order to grow more as individuals. The both of us needed someone else in our lives that would push us let us be who we needed to become. We never sat down and explicitly terminated our relationship, we sort of just both vanished into our own worlds and separated. Although neither party was upset at each other, looking back we probably should've had the decency and respect to speak to one another about it but that is what happens when you get two really passive individuals. Luckily enough, we both felt the same way and neither of us took anything personally.

When we talk every month or so, it's almost like we never stopped talking. It's an odd friendship, but in itself is really awesome. It feels like we just pick up right where we left off (in terms of conversation, not in a romantic relationship).

Oh ok,

 

[Ene]

I don't like FJ types because they are so dang hung up on those accursed value judgments!

Aw, don't be so "judgmental", Raptor. We can play nice when we try, at least in tolerable amounts.

 

[Spin]

I'm an INXP (usually test INTP, sometimes test INFP) and I dated an INFJ for about 4 years. It was a really good relationship in a lot of ways. For one, I felt very safe, understood, and valued, so it was really easy for me to open up emotionally. If your INTP is anything like I am, then he'll really appreciate the fact that you care about understanding him, and he won't feel pressured by it. Even if my INFJ just asked, "how are you?" or "how was your day?" it would eventually lead to an intimate conversation, because I knew that he genuinely wanted to know how my day was, and he always had interesting or empathetic thoughts on various social or intellectual situations that I mentioned -- and of course I wanted to know everything about his day and his thoughts, too, because I was so drawn to our emotional connection. I wanted to understand the way his mind worked, and it seemed like everything that I learned about him paralleled some habit or strange-seeming thought of mine. Note: In the beginning, I needed half an hour to warm up to the conversation: half an hour before I really felt comfortable saying how I felt. Eventually, I could just come right out and say how I felt. It takes time for INTPs to open up, but a lot of them REALLY DO want to open up. They just might not realize that anyone else can relate to their thoughts. The most important thing is to be honest and engaged when your INTP opens up. INTPs REALLY care about the truth, so honest and open communication is a must.

There were a few problem areas: I felt so loved and cherished that I sometimes didn't realize that he needed more affection. I'm generally a pretty affectionate person, but sometimes I didn't realize when my INFJ needed affection the most. Looking back, instead of just going with the flow of the relationship (which felt so easy and natural to me), I definitely would have ASKED how he was doing more often, instead of assuming that he (being so in touch with his emotions and being so expressive) would always tell me what was on his mind. If your INTP gets REALLY comfortable expressing himself to you, he might fall for the same trap I did. If that happens, just tell him when you need more affection (preferably at a time when he's not too preoccupied), and he'll eventually notice your emotional cues and start providing that extra emotional support that you need. If he doesn't, you need to have a SERIOUS talk so that he knows how much it matters to you. If things still don't change, you'll probably be better off with someone else.

Regarding the division of labor: both he and I were pretty messy. He would occasionally get motivated to clean, and everything would be nice for a week or a month, and then everything would go back to normal -- and normal was both cluttered and unsanitary. He often didn't maintain his personal hygiene. Between the two of us, I often felt that I had to take charge and start cleaning, which was a major strain on me since I'm already pretty disorganized. What helped: when one of us started keeping things clean, that would motivate the other one to keep up the trend. It also helped to have certain people be in charge of specific chores: he'd do the dishes, I'd do the laundry. You can probably think of other creative ways to minimize the time and effort spent on cleaning. For example, if he tends to pile his dirty clothes in the corner of the bathroom, start keeping a laundry hamper there! If you hate doing dishes and have some spare cash, keep disposable cups and bowls on hand for the nights you're too tired to clean. You and your INTP can brainstorm together about how to spend the least amount of time on cleaning in order to get the maximal returns for your effort. That way, it becomes a game about efficiency, and it reminds him that it's "you and him VS chores" (not "you and chores VS him and his free time"). Note: if this sounds like fun to you, you should google "life hacks."

Another BIG problem: he was VERY judgmental of me in some ways. As a matter of principle, I believe in VERY few absolutes: very few things are black and white, and I can almost always find a way to see things from another person's perspective. In my book, something isn't morally wrong unless it definitely harms someone else, or unless it violates someone's ability to live their lives happily. I like the fact that I'm so open-minded and so tolerant, but my INFJ saw that as a sign of weakness, and he sometimes talked to me about how weak-willed I was. He would often found some "flaw" of mine (which was actually perfectly benign and not hurting anyone), and he would do things to try to force me to see my "weakness" and correct it. At the time, I just thought that it was a side-effect of his love and attentiveness: if he really paid attention to me and really loved me, of course he would notice flaws and want to correct them. (Of course this applies to legitimate flaws, but many of the "flaws" that he noticed were just part of who I am and who I want to be.) I realize now that that was an unhealthy aspect of our relationship. (I'm dating an ISFJ now, and he's MUCH more accepting of who I am.)

Most of my INFJ's problems can be found here: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html
as most of mine can be found here: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP_per.html http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INTP_per.html

All in all, I believe that for two respectful and well-developed individuals, this is a very powerful and fulfilling relationship. My ex and I inspired each other to be better, more empathetic, and more intelligent people. In the end, our weaknesses got in the way, but that can happen with any two people. This is a great combo, and as long as you two love each other and can respect your differences, you'll enjoy having a partner who is often on the same wavelength as you, but who can also provide a different way of looking at things. You'll never run out of things to talk about, either, which is awesome. By mentally exploring the world (via intellectually stimulating discussions), you can both keep that feeling of discovering new things together, even after you've already discovered most things about each other. Of course, if that's not enough, you can maintain that close+exploring feeling by tackling challenges together, like by learning to salsa dance, training for a marathon, or building a dog house.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about the INTP's perspective on things!

 

[Spin]

One other thing: if he's 9w1 (which I can definitely relate to), he won't respond well to anger. If you do get angry, that's fine, but be sure to kindly ask for some time to cool down, and then later start a new conversation in which he knows that you will empathetically and rationally listen to his perspective. Being rational is SOOOO important to us INTPs. Logical thinking is the best way that we know how to access and understand the truth about the world, about the people we care about, about everything! Logical conversations are so beautiful. Unfortunately, the reverse is true too. My mind literally shuts down when someone won't listen to logic -- it's awful. All of my snarky comebacks, emotional pleas, and logical explanations just vanish, because (for some reason) if I don't think that my thoughts will truly be heard and understood, my brain refuses to put them into words, so I can't say them. I just have to sit in silence, wishing that I could figure out what to say, feeling anxious, helpless, frustrated, and sick to my stomach.

That's not completely accurate. I don't stay completely silent, but I usually only say one or two sentences for every few paragraphs that the other person says, and that makes me even more frustrated because I know that I didn't have the time or the serenity to say what I really meant and how I really felt. It's so important to INTPs to be completely honest, sincere, and 100% understood.

Eventually, if an aggressive argument goes on long enough, I just wish the conversation was over so I could escape to somewhere more peaceful. At that point, silence becomes an escape. It's the only way that a peaceful person can non-confrontationally leave the conversation.

To recap: if I get into an aggressive and illogical argument, I can't think of what to say, because anything that I say will be based on logic. If the other person isn't going to listen to logic, what's the point of me saying anything? Once I know where the other person is coming from, I just want to be understood so that we can figure out how we can both compromise and be happy.

Sorry to focus so much on the negatives!! Seriously though, knowing this stuff will help you so much. Hopefully your man will try to get some comparable advice on how to interact with you when the going gets tough -- a sort of INFJ user-manual

 

[ScottJames]

I wonder how this combination works? To be more specific, he's a type 9w1 and I'm 4w5.

I've never felt so strongly toward someone online, but lately, after nearly 7 months of interaction, he totally melts my heart away.

Yes, the pace has been really slow, but to me it works perfectly as I normally dislike rushing things especially in romantic engagement.

Anyhow, just wondering how other posters felt about the union of INTP and INFJ in general.

As an INFJ I really enjoy most INTP's blunt, honest and logical approach to things.

 

[Ism]

As an INTP........

laaaayyydeeeeeezzzz ;o ;o ;o

I can be your personal love-machine. Tell you when your wrong. Ignore you when you're right. Give you some good ol' fashion snuggles, just like a cat when you try and give it a bath.

Personal pic (PM if intersted........):

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

Regardless of whether I'm intp or not (the TP is what matters)...I <3 INFJ's xD

 

[skylights]

Another BIG problem: he was VERY judgmental of me in some ways. [...] He would often found some "flaw" of mine (which was actually perfectly benign and not hurting anyone), and he would do things to try to force me to see my "weakness" and correct it. [...] (Of course this applies to legitimate flaws, but many of the "flaws" that he noticed were just part of who I am and who I want to be.) I realize now that that was an unhealthy aspect of our relationship. (I'm dating an ISFJ now, and he's MUCH more accepting of who I am.)

Very interesting. I had almost the exact same experience, as an ENFP with an ENFJ, who was always trying to change my behaviors - some for the better, but many that I do not feel were a problem, much less did I have any interest in changing. I'm now with an ESFJ and feel the same way - he does still help me change behaviors for the better, but he's very serious about me choosing the kind of person I want to be and him not interfering with that, just helping me keep up with myself once I've made a choice. He, too, is much more accepting.

 

[NeverSayNever0304]

Wish I had a nice INTP.

I wish I had an INTP of my own, too So smart..... ♥sigh♥

 

[Salomé]

Another BIG problem: he was VERY judgmental of me in some ways. As a matter of principle, I believe in VERY few absolutes: very few things are black and white, and I can almost always find a way to see things from another person's perspective. In my book, something isn't morally wrong unless it definitely harms someone else, or unless it violates someone's ability to live their lives happily. I like the fact that I'm so open-minded and so tolerant, but my INFJ saw that as a sign of weakness, and he sometimes talked to me about how weak-willed I was. He would often found some "flaw" of mine (which was actually perfectly benign and not hurting anyone), and he would do things to try to force me to see my "weakness" and correct it.

Boner killer.

I think male INTPs are more willing to put up with this - perhaps because it reminds them of their mothers, perhaps because they just expect women to be this way (it's very FJ) perhaps because they are more desperate. Who knows?

Anyway, I don't think it works for female INTPs. Perhaps because we've had enough of being told what's wrong with us and want someone broad-minded / tolerant enough to accept us for the marvels we are.

 

[Pseudo]

Boner killer.

I think male INTPs are more willing to put up with this - perhaps because it reminds them of their mothers, perhaps because they just expect women to be this way (it's very FJ) perhaps because they are more desperate. Who knows?

Anyway, I don't think it works for female INTPs. Perhaps because we've had enough of being told what's wrong with us and want someone broad-minded / tolerant enough to accept us for the marvels we are.

Yes indeedy. I have an INFJ friend (who asked me out once) who is a writer and writes frequently on male female interactions. He's so traditionally minded I feel like we're from different planets. He'll make very impassioned speeches about how to treat women and to me it always sounds weird/awful. He has sort of a floaty, idealistic high-minded was that sort of irks me because in my humble opinion it ignores reality.

An example would be when he, and InFP man and a another man I have no idea how to type were hanging out. The untypable generally just talks about how much money he spends on alcholhol, makes the same jokes over and over and casually brags about his business. And tells dumb dirty jokes after which he'll say "excuse me ladies". Of he'll say "I don't know that I can say this in front of ladies". And one time I told the two INFXs how annoying I found that and they didn't get it at all. Had a debate with InFJ about it and he saw is a chivalrous and romantic, I saw it as a way of continually being recognized as being outside of the group and excluded. He couldn't understand why I wasn't flattered and I think now places me in a category of non-woman. He has his theories on women and then and asterisk for *crazypseudo. As if my opinions don't make his theories on women wrong, I'm just the outlier or exception that proves the rule.

 

[Ism]

And one time I told the two INFXs how annoying I found that and they didn't get it at all. Had a debate with InFJ about it and he saw is a chivalrous and romantic, I saw it as a way of continually being recognized as being outside of the group and excluded. He couldn't understand why I wasn't flattered and I think now places me in a category of non-woman. He has his theories on women and then and asterisk for *crazypseudo. As if my opinions don't make his theories on women wrong, I'm just the outlier or exception that proves the rule.

He sounds kind of dumb.

 

[Salomé]

Yes indeedy. I have an INFJ friend (who asked me out once) who is a writer and writes frequently on male female interactions. He's so traditionally minded I feel like we're from different planets. He'll make very impassioned speeches about how to treat women and to me it always sounds weird/awful. He has sort of a floaty, idealistic high-minded was that sort of irks me because in my humble opinion it ignores reality.

An example would be when he, and InFP man and a another man I have no idea how to type were hanging out. The untypable generally just talks about how much money he spends on alcholhol, makes the same jokes over and over and casually brags about his business. And tells dumb dirty jokes after which he'll say "excuse me ladies". Of he'll say "I don't know that I can say this in front of ladies". And one time I told the two INFXs how annoying I found that and they didn't get it at all. Had a debate with InFJ about it and he saw is a chivalrous and romantic, I saw it as a way of continually being recognized as being outside of the group and excluded. He couldn't understand why I wasn't flattered and I think now places me in a category of non-woman. He has his theories on women and then and asterisk for *crazypseudo. As if my opinions don't make his theories on women wrong, I'm just the outlier or exception that proves the rule.

"Let's not adjust theories to fit available facts, let's just file all the facts that don't fit in the bin. 'Cos it's neater that way and it means I don't have to rethink my position."

I've had similar experiences with INFJ men. They think they want you, but what they really want is to "fix" you. Unutterably dull.
I guess INTP men are masculine enough for INFJ women with traditional leanings. But INTP women are much too unconventional to be accommodated by a traditional mindset... or interested in one.

 

[Cellmold]

It probably would depend upon the individuals but often I cannot see it working.

But then again im probably just projecting my own lack of confidence in my ability to keep myself from judgement resulting in a more easy-going relationship.

Most of my INFJ's problems can be found here: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ_per.html

Ive read this before and I both like it and rue it. For example an important point is this:

To grow as an individual, the INFJ needs to focus on applying their judgment to things only after they have gone through their intuition. In other words, the INFJ needs to consciously try not to use their judgment to dismiss ideas prematurely. Rather, they should use their judgment against their own ideas. One cannot effectively judge something that they don't understand. The INFJ needs to take things entirely into their intuition in order to understand them. It may be neccesary to give your intuition enough time to work through the new information so that it can rebuild its global framework of understanding. INFJs need to focus on using their judgment not to dismiss ideas, but rather to support their intuitive framework.

This is very true and extremely important. Unfortunately we live in a world of people who want quick answers right away and if you are a people pleaser this just plays into this quick-judging issue. I suppose then it is up to the INFJ to aqquire enough will power to turn this judgement inwards without going too far and merely destroying their own self-esteem.

Distinguishing between helpful judgement and unhelpful judgement can present a difficulty though, especially when one comes in the guise of bearing gifts.....and only afterwards do you find that the apple is poisoned...but then it is too late.

 

[INTP]

i just met this INFJ(tested INFJ and seemed like an INFJ) yesterday, who i had been talking online dating site for about 1.5 weeks. she contacted me and first talking to her online i was like "well she seems decent and talks to me, so i might just as well talk to he back" and she seemed to be really into my insightful, smart and bla bla bla thing. when i saw her i was like "she seems more than just decent", but got friendzoned. i dont get it, she said what she wanted(and thought that what she wanted was too much to ask) and im pretty sure i was that(and more), but she said that there was no chemistry. wtf is this chemistry thing to INFJs? (also similar thing happened with another INFJ this summer, but we met irl, not online)

 

[cafe]

i just met this INFJ(tested INFJ and seemed like an INFJ) yesterday, who i had been talking online dating site for about 1.5 weeks. she contacted me and first talking to her online i was like "well she seems decent and talks to me, so i might just as well talk to he back" and she seemed to be really into my insightful, smart and bla bla bla thing. when i saw her i was like "she seems more than just decent", but got friendzoned. i dont get it, she said what she wanted(and thought that what she wanted was too much to ask) and im pretty sure i was that(and more), but she said that there was no chemistry. wtf is this chemistry thing to INFJs? (also similar thing happened with another INFJ this summer, but we met irl, not online)

I always knew whether I felt romantically attracted to someone or not fairly quickly. If I was pretty sure there wasn't going to be anything there, I felt it was unethical to waste someone's time that they could be investing in finding someone that did feel romantically attracted to them. Other types are probably more likely to give it more time before they give it a thumbs down. I dunno.

 

[INTP]

[MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION]

i think i figured it out(at least partially). INFJs seem to be bit hard to approach, they behave in this weird way, like creating some walls by being distant(especially physically) in many ways at the beginning(dunno if they do it consciously or unconsciously). but yet, they seem to want someone who is more proactive(which ENTPs and ENFPs usually are) and can get past these obstacles that they create. and well, i cant do that because i see the obstacles, am pretty hypersensitive about peoples boundaries in general and just can find my way through them. so, because they create these obstacles which i cant get through, there cant really be any sort of intimacy happening, hence lack of sparks, even tho they like my mind and i like theirs -> friends. also i think the thing you mentioned about judging quick just makes it worse, i mean im pretty sure that i could navigate my way through the obstacles, if i had more time to do so..

 

[sulfit]

i think i figured it out(at least partially). INFJs seem to be bit hard to approach, they behave in this weird way, like creating some walls by being distant(especially physically) in many ways at the beginning(dunno if they do it consciously or unconsciously). but yet, they seem to want someone who is more proactive(which ENTPs and ENFPs usually are) and can get past these obstacles that they create. and well, i cant do that because i see the obstacles, am pretty hypersensitive about peoples boundaries in general and just can find my way through them. so, because they create these obstacles which i cant get through, there cant really be any sort of intimacy happening, hence lack of sparks, even tho they like my mind and i like theirs -> friends. also i think the thing you mentioned about judging quick just makes it worse, i mean im pretty sure that i could navigate my way through the obstacles, if i had more time to do so..

I'll add one more thing. Their thought process seems disorderly. I think they enjoy the company of INTP or ENTP to help them structure their thoughts. Some of the most interesting debates I've had was with INFJ. I seemed to have helped him think better.