[INTJ] INTJs; Inferior Se; And Horrible Taste in Automobiles...

[Zarathustra]

Wealth is just not a metric that I use to judge a person's character or worth...

Perhaps you shouldn't use a car either...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

In response to what Highlander posted above, I love all those facets of vehicles.

Before I do anything else I'm probably gonna try to build a 240sx track car for SCCA club racing and autocross events...

Maybe something like this.

 

[Zarathustra]

Lol, Z, how are you enjoying your ENFPs quirky Fi?

I wouldn't call it "enjoying"...

 

[SillySapienne]

Stop the presses, Highlander is a mod!!??!?!?!??!!?



I don't know if I should feel pleased or sad.

You're one of them now....

 

[mmhmm]

man, i just love driving shit that goes fast.
i don't care. just make it go.

we go down to the formula one track in malaysia all the time.
rent it out $300/hour, freaking steal, split it with a few friends.
have a ball. you can do motorbikes or cars. not at the same time.

love it. so much fun.

 

[Athenian200]

hmm, these are really great points, spot on... perhaps the root of the repulsive response we feel is something to do with a loss of authenticity-For me-and perhaps other enfps-especially when younger-being authentic is HUGE and feels compulsive. To the point i refused to wear makeup or fix my hair for a long time and I totally did the upside down judgment you are highlighting. Perhaps we are seeing others covering themselves in some way, hiding behind something and it sets off an Fi signal of inauthenticity which feels kinda yucky.....These are very preliminary ramblings though and it is interesting to think more upon.....

Yeah, I think understand, though. It probably comes from shadow Si... instead of embracing the standards, you turn them upside down, but you've still internalized them just the same.

I've always noticed this phenomenon, that there are people out there who conform by not conforming, and think that they're more "authentic" and "real" for doing precisely the opposite of what "normal" people do. When in reality, if you do that, you're still chained to the standards, and not thinking for yourself. Because if you thought for yourself, you would find that you actually agreed with some of the standards. Popular taste may not always be good, but it seems to be the greater error to assume it's always bad. Basically, NPs (especially ENPs) have trouble seeing any good in Si and Je.

Great post.

I know that this is a problem of mine, so much so that my sister confronted me about it when I told her I would never date a guy who drove a luxury car.

I think ultimately a person is a person, and good people can like and own fancy, ostentatious things, and lousy people can own crappy things.

I just don't like the idea of people *using* their money as a means to undeniably delineate that they are different, and by different I mean "above" other human beings.

I am sensitive to this issue due to the environment I was raised in, I've known plenty of ridiculously wealthy people who've managed to keep their feet on the ground, in fact, these were the only ones I've ever respected.

Extreme wealth, often times, facilitates a superiority complex in people, as if just because they have a lot of money they are divinely better.

Wealth is just not a metric that I use to judge a person's character or worth, and I cannot stand those who foolishly do use it as a means to judge someone as being better or worse.

That's... a very well-thought out response.

I have to say, I think I understand where you're coming from better now. I don't like it when people use wealth as a standard of measurement, either, or when they do something just to flaunt it and for no other reason.

This is actually one reason that I resent my ESTP father. He does lots of things just to show off, like buying the latest iPhone, or getting a new, big "American" truck every year, or buying everyone a $50 ham at Christmas. It doesn't look that ostentatious on the surface, but what bothers me is that I know that his motivation is to show off, impress, and ingratiate people to him. I've even seen him "dress down" and act crude and "poor" around people with inverted standards in order to impress them, right after dressing up and acting sophisticated and "rich" to impress people with normal standards.

In other words, I understand what it is that bothers you, It's just that I'm really only bothered when the person's intention is to show off, or follow a trend of purchasing something that's inferior because it's popular and "cool."

 

[SillySapienne]

In response to what Highlander posted above, I love all those facets of vehicles.

Before I do anything else I'm probably gonna try to build a 240sx track car for SCCA club racing and autocross events...

Maybe something like this.

Disco, barring the fact that you're an N, you still are a Floridian, and hence, we must make certain, ahem... exceptions for you. So, in other words, you're good.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

How does being a Floridian change the dynamic?

 

[sculpting]

Believe it or not, I, and probably many of the people who have posted their favorite cars on here, have shared, to some extent, all the thoughts that you and Silly share.

I actually still do to some extent, but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, because I don't presume to know their reasons for owning the car that they do.

Until someone has demonstrated that they own a car is for inauthentic reasons, I prefer not to go around chopping them to pieces with my judgments.

Perhaps you should consider the possibility that some people buy certain cars because they authentically desire and appreciate them.

Believe it or not, authenticity is important to other people too; some people just have different tastes to be authentic to.

Please note-I was commenting on athenian's post to shed insight into why there may be a visceral response-not passing value judgments on others in this thread. Please note that in my quote I pointed out "when young" and also that my interest is in analyzing my own internal response-which means owning that response and realizing it's potential flaws-thus my reply to athenian. I do not recall at any point chopping people to pieces and actually said I wanted to buy a 400z in an earlier post on this particular topic. Authenticity in Fi, in particular ENFPs is a topic of interest to me, given how it drives our subconscious reponses at times-but i think you may have mistaken my tone as condemnatory rather than intellectually interested in the idea.

 

[SillySapienne]

man, i just love driving shit that goes fast.
i don't care. just make it go.

we go down to the formula one track in malaysia all the time.
rent it out $300/hour, freaking steal, split it with a few friends.
have a ball. you can do motorbikes or cars. not at the same time.

love it. so much fun.

300 hundred U.S. dollars?

 

[SillySapienne]

How does being a Floridian change the dynamic?

For example, if you're a man and you've been to prison twice, that would be bad, or crazy, but if you are a Floridian man who has been to prison twice, well, that would just be normal.

Something about Florida man, crazy state, crazy people.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

^ Agreed!

 

[SillySapienne]

Please note-I was commenting on athenian's post to shed insight into why there may be a visceral response-not passing value judgments on others in this thread. Please note that in my quote I pointed out "when young" and also that my interest is in analyzing my own internal response-which means owning that response and realizing it's potential flaws-thus my reply to athenian. I do not recall at any point chopping people to pieces and actually said I wanted to buy a 400z in an earlier post on this particular topic. Authenticity in Fi, in particular ENFPs is a topic of interest to me, given how it drives our subconscious reponses at times-but i think you may have mistaken my tone as condemnatory rather than intellectually interested in the idea.

No, he's just mad at me for starting this thread, and condemning me for being a shallow, judgmental person who's used very little thought and insight on the subject-matter.

And one wonders why I have stopped posting on this forum, a place I used to call home.

Bleh, let him have it.

Peace out guys.

 

[Zarathustra]

Not sure how you thought making a thread essentially attacking a group of people to which I belong was a smooth, wise and amicable way of making your re-entry onto the forum, but, to each her own...

 

[Amargith]

She didn't, she' just vented in a semi-joking way about something

 

[Nicodemus]

I don't mind the way. It's just cars.

 

[SillySapienne]

She didn't, she' just vented in a semi-joking way about something

Thank you!



Another dream car of mine...

 

[SillySapienne]

Not sure how you thought making a thread essentially attacking a group of people to which I belong was a smooth, wise and amicable way of making your re-entry onto the forum, but, to each her own...

Pfft, don't tell me how I should or should not act in a way to re-enter a forum of which I've belonged to much longer than you.

You should be grateful that I actually love you enough and care about our relationship enough that I gave up something I EXTREMELY CARED about in order to salvage us. Because as it is clearly shown in this thread, this place is not big enough for both of us, or your immense ego.

So, take it, take it all, you don't need an Audi to be hot shit, all you need is this forum to bolster your ego.

Have fun.

 

[Nicodemus]

 

[SillySapienne]

But they're very easy to drive. The roots of the Beetle and Porsche are closely tied by the way. You should tell her that.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Protecting-Your-Porsche-911-Classic&id=3596172

"The Porsche 911 has remained true to its roots for many years; fans of the 911 argue that this is what makes it so special. When you consider the early design sketches that were penned by Ferdinand Porsche in 1959 and examine the most recent revision of the Porsche 911 it is astonishing to note how little the basic design has changed since the 1960's. Of course when you consider the graceful curves and angles of the Porsche 911 it is easy to see how it takes many of its design cues from the Volkswagen Beetle, and whilst it may have been designed as a sportier version of the popular Beetle it has since redefined the notion of the supercar by building upon previous generations of the car year after year."

http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/10/2012-volkswagen-new-beetle-porsche-356-revival.html

Interesting to know. Thanks!

And don't listen to Z, pfft, he hadn't even known that I've been in Porsches and actually ENJOYED THEM since I was a young girl.