INFp Turning into INFj

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

BAH! I got to page 19 and just couldn't read any more!

I N F J

Seems pretty NI/Fe to me. sorry lauren ashley for disagreeing with you

Lethe and Simulated and Black Cat and pijul....? made some great examples of Ni/Ne and Mystic always came back and supported more Ni thinking than Ne thinking and more Fe than Fi thinking, imo. He was leaning infj until he took more bogus functions tests (i guess) and started saying infp. NO WAY.

His style is too terse and direct to be infp, overall. He's not flowery and wordy and expressive like infps are.

Mystic: I was diagnosed with ADD as a child, although it was, I believe, a bad diagnosis, but my mother wasn't sure what to make of me. I live in my head (as you said you do) and draw MY conclusions over time and much contemplation. I care about people primarily, but I have very strong Fi too. Instead of coming from somewhere within, my F is guided first by what my significant others, i.e. children and family need MOST (Fe) (not necessarily groups or the community, which, again, is a misleading lay description).

Sim said some stuff about Fi in the middle of the thread I didn't agree with for myself, or was it Fe? Anyway, with Fe I know the cultural expectations and can use them with ease, but it doesn't mean I internalize them. I don't. I do what I damn well please..........except when I'm around others. However, I genuinely adore people, and want the best for them.........when I am around them.

Another function guru on here says beyond the first two functions, you really can't rely on function order at all. If you read through the thread again, you'd see that you answered more Ni affirmatives than Ne, and same with Fe vs. Fi. Plus you sort-of resonate like peguy to me in a lot of ways, not so much the other infp males on here.

EDIT: And the male INFJ username "Sky-something" too, or especially

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

One more thing I wanted to mention, but forgot, is, "What type do you think your parents are?" Because I have come to believe that personality is definitely genetic. You take two people with 4 particular letters, and you mix that up and spit out a baby. The probabilities that exist with genetics apply here. Unlikely 2 strong Ns, Fs, Ps, whatevs, would have a child of a different type. But, of course not impossible--strange unlikely things happen in genetics all the time. Recessive traits or buried traits will come out in the least expected ways. Under that premise, two Ps could make a J. Maybe they're borderline J/P, maybe grandpa was VERY J, etc.

But, no offense here, judging by how difficult a time you are having typing yourself, I'd suspect your typing of your parents. Especially the J/P thing. It is hard to accomodate J/P in a relationship because it affects daily life in the form of schedules, spontaneity, kinds of spontaneity, laid-backness versus uptightness about various things. In effect, one partner will end up 'giving in' over time and assuming the other preference. Unless you really go back in time and/or know how each parent was in their mid to late childhood (the best time to figure typing out, imo, I guess because by this point the first two functions are in good use), you might be calling one a 'P' who is actually a 'J'..........Again, this isn't a foolproof method for typing oneself by any means, but it is a, sometimes very, helpful piece of the puzzle.

The aversion to violence thing was another place that really struck me that you are infj. I've noticed that with many other infjs on here, and rang absolutely true for me. The infps I know are almost intp-ish in their macabre fascination with death, violence, an overall weird bizarre curiosity or acceptance for the nature of the human condition. Then they might take and twist it into some weird joke or poem or something and giggle.



EDIT: I went back and read pages 20-now . I see, Mystic, that you seemed to hinge your decision on Fe/Fi. I would caution you about that, especially if you are an infj (because Fe is our aux function). I have been delving into this stuff for a very long time and grappled with my own distinctions (as you may have seen on the archetype thread) in that regard. What helped me most was figuring out

1.) Do I predominantly use Ni or Ne? Well, I always simply look inward (or mostly) to find my answers. It's as simple as that. Yes, I notice patterns and stuff, but don't use my external world or environment to figure things out. And I derive One Right Way for Myself. Period. That might change, but once I find a truth for myself, I can be very stubborn. To adapt to another truth in that vein will take a very long time and a lot of sifting of info.

2.) Once I nailed down I'm an Ni user, I moved to Fe/Fi. I thought at first I was more Fi too, because I feel strongly about many things that are unwaverable, and have strong values in my own quirky way, and strong morals, etc. But then I realized what really drives me is my devotion to my family (not necessarily society or community). I make my decisions on what others need of me and put others first nearly all the time. It's tricky to figure out the aux function.

I think figuring out Ne/Ni is easier for some reason than F because how you feel about something gets clouded in an i/e haze of life experiences and extraneous variables. But maybe cuz that's my aux function. Who knows. But I do use a lot of Fi too.

Also, Simulated knows his stuff. Lethe does too, but, Lethe, I think you were getting a little overanalytical going into the tert functions and stuff, and clouding the issue with too much info. Tert functions are fluid anyway, aren't they, depending on what you need at any given moment?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yes, I agree. Especially because as a child, I was forced into being in a slovenly mess by my parents. They love me, but my mother had a horrible hording habit. I wanted to have control at first (J), but eventually I just gave up because she would always stop me from cleaning or throwing things out (P). This, I reckon, would be environment, and thus a "learned" behavior.

By the way, I'm not saying that all people with "P" in their type are like my mother. She is unhealthy.

Okay, sorry. I had to comment here. I had a hoarding mother too. I hated it. I easily labeled her as ISTJ, very controlling, very uptight, never threw anything away. If that's what you are going on by calling Mom a 'p,' I'd be interested to know. Ps and Js can both be hoarders. I was so relieved to get out of my mother's house too! Finally, control over my own environment!! yay! Again, you sound J here........

I'll stop now.

 

[raz]

In respect to the genetics thing, my mother is ESFJ and my father is INTJ. Their kids are ESFP, ESFJ, ENFJ and ISTJ. Both parents being J's coming out with 3 J's seems reasonable. The one P retained 3 letters from the mother while becoming P. I just wish I had another I sibling. I think my life would be a lot easier. It helps a lot though that I share 3 letters with my father, however the one letter we don't share makes the biggest difference. I'm interested in protocol, he's interested in principle. Lots of conflict in that respect.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

In respect to the genetics thing, my mother is ESFJ and my father is INTJ. Their kids are ESFP, ESFJ, ENFJ and ISTJ. Both parents being J's coming out with 3 J's seems reasonable. The one P retained 3 letters from the mother while becoming P. I just wish I had another I sibling. I think my life would be a lot easier. It helps a lot though that I share 3 letters with my father, however the one letter we don't share makes the biggest difference. I'm interested in protocol, he's interested in principle. Lots of conflict in that respect.

Yeah, I'm fascinated by genetics and personality. I'm also surprised because many don't seem to believe it works like that. To me, it's obvious. Your parents are so different. That's interesting too. Just the J in common. I bet it was hard being an introvert among extraverts. Are your enfj sibling and intj dad close? I am very close with my intj son. We have the same sense of humor, and way of seeing things. My istp husband and intj son don't jive real well, but because istp (istj too?) is pretty laid-back, it works. They seem to do well having a sport together--tae kwon do. And they just have a quiet respect for each other. But I'm not sure what older intj/ younger istj would be like. What are older INTJs like?

 

[raz]

Wow, that's weird that you suggested that about my ENFJ sister and INTJ father being close. I noticed that more the last few years that they just seemed to be on the same level of understanding, but they had conflicts when it came to certain viewpoints, which I would attribute to T vs. F. He gets on her for not doing the more intelligent thing, and she gets on him for being inconsiderate of others.

My siblings have really just disregarded me as being....the different "baby" since I'm the youngest. They acknowledge some of my skills that come with being an ISTJ, like needing things perfectly planned out, having an innate understanding of the factual underlying systems of life or the natural skill that comes with being an introvert....an immense amount of patience, as in the ability to focus on one thing.

My father keeps getting on me about seeing the big picture in terms of the systems that I desire in my life, but it's hard to get him to understand that I can't adjust to it nearly as quickly as he can. I need so much more time to understand and adapt. My siblings just don't understand how I can remain so detached from the world, yet be knowledgeable about very specific areas.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Wow, that's weird that you suggested that about my ENFJ sister and INTJ father being close. I noticed that more the last few years that they just seemed to be on the same level of understanding, but they had conflicts when it came to certain viewpoints, which I would attribute to T vs. F. He gets on her for not doing the more intelligent thing, and she gets on him for being inconsiderate of others.

My siblings have really just disregarded me as being....the different "baby" since I'm the youngest. They acknowledge some of my skills that come with being an ISTJ, like needing things perfectly planned out, having an innate understanding of the factual underlying systems of life or the natural skill that comes with being an introvert....an immense amount of patience, as in the ability to focus on one thing.

My father keeps getting on me about seeing the big picture in terms of the systems that I desire in my life, but it's hard to get him to understand that I can't adjust to it nearly as quickly as he can. I need so much more time to understand and adapt. My siblings just don't understand how I can remain so detached from the world, yet be knowledgeable about very specific areas.

Interesting. So you guys both have Te for your aux function, but he takes data in through Ni and you through Si. It seems like both would take a lot of mental time to process, but perhaps because of his age and life experience he's very efficient now, and not as patient maybe? I don't know much about Si. It sorta confuses me to be honest. Are you stereotypically dependable? Only an NTJ could find fault with an ISTJ> Those guys are hard to impress, but in the end they have a hard time feeling content in themselves, right, so it's probably hard to get one, especially one's father (if you're his son), to give his nod of approval to you, when they 'supposedly' struggle with just feeling content in themselves. But again, I only know one INTJ older man and he seems pretty content, although he's always busy. He kinda has a flat affect, but he seems pleased enough with his sons.

As for the sister, enfj is Fe/Ni and intj is Ni/Te, so the shared Ni works. But you do have the shared Te, but I guess the perceiving function makes the most difference in relating with someone? I'm just feeling my way through this........

 

[raz]

Interesting. So you guys both have Te for your aux function, but he takes data in through Ni and you through Si. It seems like both would take a lot of mental time to process, but perhaps because of his age and life experience he's very efficient now, and not as patient maybe? I don't know much about Si. It sorta confuses me to be honest. Are you stereotypically dependable? Only an NTJ could find fault with an ISTJ> Those guys are hard to impress, but in the end they have a hard time feeling content in themselves, right, so it's probably hard to get one, especially one's father (if you're his son), to give his nod of approval to you, when they 'supposedly' struggle with just feeling content in themselves. But again, I only know one INTJ older man and he seems pretty content, although he's always busy. He kinda has a flat affect, but he seems pleased enough with his sons.

As for the sister, enfj is Fe/Ni and intj is Ni/Te, so the shared Ni works. But you do have the shared Te, but I guess the perceiving function makes the most difference in relating with someone? I'm just feeling my way through this........

That's what I keep speculating is that he's taken on a lot of viewpoints on things based on his age and life experience. He does a lot of things that don't seem INTJish, but I wonder how much of an influence an ESFJ wife had on him over the course of a lifetime. He has such an understanding of relating to people that doesn't seem INTJ-like, which I want to attribute to my mother teaching him.

I usually remember a lot more things I'm supposed to do or others are supposed to do a lot more than my family. So, I'd say I'm stereotypically dependable. If I'm asked to do something, it just doesn't escape my mind. If it seems like I don't know about it, I've likely made the conscious choice to just act like I don't know about it in order to avoid something. His big picture view doesn't coincide with my tunnel vision tendencies much. I tend to bring him back down to Earth though when we're communicating about something Te-related.

Si is just a great focus on the past. It's about the experiences you've accumulated over the course of your life and how they've added to your understanding. If something's worked in the past, it's expected to work again, and if it doesn't, there's usually a reason why that needs to be inspected greatly. I just take pride in my ability to focus on one thing. If I'm allowed to narrow in on one thing, I can accomplish something amazing, but usually life isn't that accommodating.

I was just telling someone at a bookstore today that was complaining about her job as the manager. I told her I would *love* her job because it would be my sole priority as opposed to juggling work and school. If I had a job I believed in, I would focus on it so much and it would really give my life meaning. I hate the juggling act that is being in college while working full time. I'm able to make schedules but it still fucking sucks. Maybe one day.

 

[Lethe]

Lethe does too, but, Lethe, I think you were getting a little overanalytical going into the tert functions and stuff, and clouding the issue with too much info. Tert functions are fluid anyway, aren't they, depending on what you need at any given moment?

It's for a theoretical understanding; reality may not apply due to our complex nature. Finding your type requires that you determine which archetype best describes yourself, rather than one that is exact in every description.

(Generally, people only need to use their first two functions for their type estimation. The tertiary function comes in handy when you're a perceiving dominant -- Se, Si, Ne, Ni -- and stuck between two types.)

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's for a theoretical understanding; reality may not apply due to our complex nature. Finding your type requires that you determine which archetype best describes yourself, rather than one that is exact in every description.

(Generally, people only need to use their first two functions for their type estimation. The tertiary function comes in handy when you're a perceiving dominant -- Se, Si, Ne, Ni -- and stuck between two types.)

Lethe, I like you.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

That's what I keep speculating is that he's taken on a lot of viewpoints on things based on his age and life experience. He does a lot of things that don't seem INTJish, but I wonder how much of an influence an ESFJ wife had on him over the course of a lifetime. He has such an understanding of relating to people that doesn't seem INTJ-like, which I want to attribute to my mother teaching him.

I usually remember a lot more things I'm supposed to do or others are supposed to do a lot more than my family. So, I'd say I'm stereotypically dependable. If I'm asked to do something, it just doesn't escape my mind. If it seems like I don't know about it, I've likely made the conscious choice to just act like I don't know about it in order to avoid something. His big picture view doesn't coincide with my tunnel vision tendencies much. I tend to bring him back down to Earth though when we're communicating about something Te-related.

Si is just a great focus on the past. It's about the experiences you've accumulated over the course of your life and how they've added to your understanding. If something's worked in the past, it's expected to work again, and if it doesn't, there's usually a reason why that needs to be inspected greatly. I just take pride in my ability to focus on one thing. If I'm allowed to narrow in on one thing, I can accomplish something amazing, but usually life isn't that accommodating.

I was just telling someone at a bookstore today that was complaining about her job as the manager. I told her I would *love* her job because it would be my sole priority as opposed to juggling work and school. If I had a job I believed in, I would focus on it so much and it would really give my life meaning. I hate the juggling act that is being in college while working full time. I'm able to make schedules but it still fucking sucks. Maybe one day.

Probably so about your father. My functions and their usage has had soooo much impact by being with my s.o., who's functions are quite a bit diff than mine. I really am sold on the opposites thing. I think I would def have better or deeper discussions more often with an N dom person, but I'm not sure over time, I wouldn't find the N commonality a bit boring. I really like the challenge and surprises that come with a whole different perceiving function.

I'm sure Life in general just fleshes out your basic personality type. I think that's why older people are so wise. From an MBTI perspective, they've had so many years to develop all their functions mo bettah, if they are open to that, that is.

Wow. Working full time while attending school is a whole lot of work. I feel for you. I could see how a nice, stable, job at a book store would appeal to you as an istj. It's good to keep that in mind as you go through college, so you can end up in a place, and with a degree, that fits your personality, and what you desire for work. Thanks for the Si info. I think my daughter is an istj, so it's always nice to understand a bit more about things.

 

[Ginkgo]

Okay, sorry. I had to comment here. I had a hoarding mother too. I hated it. I easily labeled her as ISTJ, very controlling, very uptight, never threw anything away. If that's what you are going on by calling Mom a 'p,' I'd be interested to know. Ps and Js can both be hoarders. I was so relieved to get out of my mother's house too! Finally, control over my own environment!! yay! Again, you sound J here........

I'll stop now.

My mother is an ESFP and my father is an INFP. However, based on the definition of genetic heredity, I don't think that concludes that I am either a P or a J.

I am certain that my mother hordes items as a means of coping with tremendous loss. Her sister died 13 years ago, and she has had several miscarriages. Surely, her mental state has deteriorated because of these experiences. In addition, her "ESFP-ness" makes her inclined to spend money generous ways; thus, she accumulates many possessions regardless of their worth. In fact, my parents' houses have always been over-run with garbage and clutter. I feel terribly sorry for her.

My father, on the other hand, is extremely accepting of her. He often acts as a door mat for her uncleanly behavior. I am both envious and frustrated by this. In a way, I feel that it encourages her negative habits.

Whenever a friend would come over to our house, I would get terribly upset because I knew that my friend was going to think of my family as a bunch of lazy freaks. Meanwhile, I would keep in mind that most families were much more cleanly. I suppose this would be Fe, but it could have been evoked by tremendous stress. Stress causes shadow functions to become present where they once weren't. :steam:

Regarding my writing style : I write in a structured fashion because I want the reader to know what I am saying. In addition, I know that some MBTI archetypes are rather turned off by flowery language. Funny enough, I often find myself re-reading my posts before I click enter just to make sure.

 

[raz]

Probably so about your father. My functions and their usage has had soooo much impact by being with my s.o., who's functions are quite a bit diff than mine. I really am sold on the opposites thing. I think I would def have better or deeper discussions more often with an N dom person, but I'm not sure over time, I wouldn't find the N commonality a bit boring. I really like the challenge and surprises that come with a whole different perceiving function.

I'm sure Life in general just fleshes out your basic personality type. I think that's why older people are so wise. From an MBTI perspective, they've had so many years to develop all their functions mo bettah, if they are open to that, that is.

Wow. Working full time while attending school is a whole lot of work. I feel for you. I could see how a nice, stable, job at a book store would appeal to you as an istj. It's good to keep that in mind as you go through college, so you can end up in a place, and with a degree, that fits your personality, and what you desire for work. Thanks for the Si info. I think my daughter is an istj, so it's always nice to understand a bit more about things.

I'm starting to understand more work dynamics between INFJs and ISTJs. I have an INFJ supervisor and an INFJ coworker. I get to see their reactions to me frequently, and I think they're more of surprised by the Fi than the Si/Te. I hone in on my own personal interests rather than the people around me. If the people around me become an interest, then Te can come off as Fe when really it's just very effective strategic communication.

I remember reading somewhere about INFJs viewing ISTJs as this person they just look at and think, "This guy is just so concrete and factual." I'm just so focused on immediate perceptions and understandings because they're what's really reliable to me. I'm starting realize lately that I take on the viewpoint of relying on my senses so much because I'm so incapable of making intuitive leaps. The lack of ability to make intuitive leaps pushes me to put my faith in what my senses can report back as logically verifiable.

INFJ girls are just really interesting to me for some reason.