[INFP] INFP Anger?

[SciVo]

SciVo, that's really interesting. You know I'm familiar with MBTI, but the enneagram is very new to me. Most of my knowledge about it comes from the conversations of ladies in my painting group. Not extreamly helpful. And I have no idea what a stress point is. Very curious though..

Each enneagram type basically represents a fundamental strategy for living. Each type has 9 levels of expression, since even the same person can use the same strategy in a healthier way at one time than another, let alone how different the health of two different people can be.

However, for some reason that I haven't learned yet, a healthy 9 who cracks under stress won't simply revert to an unhealthy 9 and dissociate; instead, he'll act out like an unhealthy 6 -- the "direction of disintegration" for a 9 -- disparaging when ashamed, conspiring when paranoid, attacking when vulnerable, etc.

It's a very interesting system. I'm not sure how strong its foundation is, but I've ordered a couple books, so I'll find out. So far, it seems to be a useful alternate perspective; if nothing else, it keeps me aware that MBTI is just a model, so that I don't lose sight of the complex, independent, underlying reality that it's attempting to describe.

 

[Lambchop]

My INFP does the weirdest thing. He is usually so calm and easy going and I am the one who gets frustrated or angry. I used to hold my emotions in until I exploded and then I would have a LARGE list of "done-wrongs." I've learned to let my emotions out when I feel them now, so if something is irrating, I will say "That is soo irritating" and complain about it. He usually keeps quiet.

HOWEVER, he has the WORST road rage! The first time I drove in a car with him, I almost got out and never looked back. He swears and calls people names and clenches his jaw in pure anger when someone is simply going too slow for his taste! This normally mild tempered, peaceful, "nice guy"...suddenly becomes quite scary! He hates conflict and avoids it whenever he can. Only when I force him to deal with it, will he come out and deal with it.

Is he repressing anger from every day life and releasing it when he's driving??? This has always plagued me! INFPs...accurate or not?

 

[SciVo]

Yeah, tell him how his driving affects you emotionally. If he does it again, immediately draw his attention to it each time he does it. It might eventually be necessary for you to actually lay down an ultimatum, and demand to be let out so that you can take a cab to your destination; that will work, even if nothing else does, but it probably won't reach that point.

ETA: My dad (whose type I don't know) refused to stop when I made that demand. I don't know why. To get through to him, I had to threaten to jump out -- deadly serious about considering that the safer option, not bluffing one bit. But don't worry, I can't imagine an INFP being anywhere near that difficult about it.

 

[CzeCze]

I grew up with a lot of ugly and sometimes violent anger and fighting. It caused and still causes anxiety in me and gives me a 6 wing on the ennegram. I rarely get angry myself these days and I have try to either let things go or step up and say my piece/peace.

I get confused sometimes though, about what is "appropriate" or not and what is "mean" or not. With the Te tertiary function, when I say my piece/peace I am very dispassionate and matter of fact about it. The truth itself can be very cutting, I take no extra pleasure in being malicious. When you know you are enjoying giving someone bad news or saying something negative, that's when it's a good time to take a step back.

I think when a person is angry, they most often just want to be relevant, to be listened to, to be acknowledged. I have that power to do that for myself by speaking up, I do not need a particular reaction from a particular person to get my satisfaction.

I do not seek to unnecessarily escalate fights but I do not want to shy away from confrontation either. I seek to end tension by nipping the issue in the bud and I try to do it while I am at an advantage and have control of myself and know exactly what I want to say and what my goal is.

So after I say what I need to say, I feel extremely calm and satisfied knowing I've done all that I can do. It completely clears me of my anger. It's really one of the best things that I have learned to do for myself.

 

[SciVo]

From Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and other things that I've read, I've learned to see emotions as messages from the subconscious about a perception of circumstances in relation to a universal human need. Anger is typically an IM notifying me that I perceive one of my boundaries or rights as having been violated. When I recognize that message, I look for what it's saying, and immediately validate the need involved. That relieves my unconscious anxiety that I might not properly address the need, placing others' above my own. Then, I can dispassionately analyze the perception involved for validity, and strategize a response. I think that I've become a much healthier 9 by learning how to do that, although it's still possible for an explosion to catch me by surprise.

 

[Sizzling Berry]

From Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg and other things that I've read, I've learned to see emotions as messages from the subconscious about a perception of circumstances in relation to a universal human need. Anger is typically an IM notifying me that I perceive one of my boundaries or rights as having been violated. When I recognize that message, I look for what it's saying, and immediately validate the need involved. That relieves my unconscious anxiety that I might not properly address the need, placing others' above my own. Then, I can dispassionately analyze the perception involved for validity, and strategize a response. I think that I've become a much healthier 9 by learning how to do that, although it's still possible for an explosion to catch me by surprise.

I think this is very wise what you are saying - granted. But what do you do when you have only a few seconds to react to one of your boundaries being crossed? The process you're describing above seems time-consuming - or it would be to me - especially strategizing response. With people and feelings involved I would have an impression that there were too many factors that I needed to take into account. If you found a good way to do it quickly (or if anyone did) could you please share it - that would be great .

As to exploding - I am not really against it. In civilized forms it can be very useful. There are a few people out there who won't take no for an answer - after a few attempts to be polite a mild and controlled explosion can do the trick.

One more thing, there is another side to the issue. We (I mean people) tend to categorize others very quickly and later we don't like to change our minds about them. Once xNFP is classified by their friends as spontaneous and easy-going it's very hard to believe that xNFP would not agree to something or would mind something. So it's not only that that we let our anger out too late, but we have a thicker wall around us. Some people tend not to believe that we are serious in our protests unless we state them firmly, sometimes too firmly. Or at least this is my experience.

 

[bcvcdc]

We (I mean people) tend to categorize others very quickly and later we don't like to change our minds about them.

I don't think I understand exactly what you're getting at there, dude. :hi:

 

[Sizzling Berry]

I don't think I understand exactly what you're getting at there, dude. :hi:

I am a woman Sweetsmile not a dude.

I mean that after a while we learn how to react to a particular person - it is actually said that for example in a dating relationship the basic patterns of interaction (say who has more power, who decides stuff, how people treat each other) are decided in first two weeks - then it's very difficult to change. The things get into certain order - u either need evolution (which needs time) or revolution to change them .

 

[Ginkgo]

No,I hardly get angry.

I tend to change my disposition based on who I am talking with.

When I am talking with an authority figure, I instinctively turn my self into a quite, mild mannered little boy.

When I am with a group of friends, I turn into a clown who can crack a joke at the drop of a hat.

When I am a leader, I encourage others to work in an efficient manner. I have had to develop a strict tone in order to get things done.

To the rest of the world, I am just another face.

However, there have been times in the past when I got angry when people didn't understand me. I would sometimes turn into a beast, the likes of which were only comparable to a savage ape. This is the reason why I learned to adapt to social situations.

EDIT: When I am on the forums, I space my ideas out when typing them so people will be more inclined to read them.

 

[SciVo]

I think this is very wise what you are saying - granted. But what do you do when you have only a few seconds to react to one of your boundaries being crossed? The process you're describing above seems time-consuming - or it would be to me - especially strategizing response. With people and feelings involved I would have an impression that there were too many factors that I needed to take into account. If you found a good way to do it quickly (or if anyone did) could you please share it - that would be great .

That's true. I gladly cheat with the combination of a prescription stimulating anti-depressant and advancing adulthood (mid-30s now). The combination gives me much greater instinctive control over my emotions than I had at 28, with my anxiety undiagnosed (and therefore untreated) and just plain less practice than I have now. I'm finally more like what a mature, healthy INFP should be like: able to simultaneously feel intensely and communicate with empathy without having to consciously think about it, like a pro athlete of the heart. In some ways, I actually look forward to getting older, since my body is young for its years, and I could really use more wisdom.

As to exploding - I am not really against it. In civilized forms it can be very useful. There are a few people out there who won't take no for an answer - after a few attempts to be polite a mild and controlled explosion can do the trick.

One more thing, there is another side to the issue. We (I mean people) tend to categorize others very quickly and later we don't like to change our minds about them. Once xNFP is classified by their friends as spontaneous and easy-going it's very hard to believe that xNFP would not agree to something or would mind something. So it's not only that that we let our anger out too late, but we have a thicker wall around us. Some people tend not to believe that we are serious in our protests unless we state them firmly, sometimes too firmly. Or at least this is my experience.

I used to think that way. Over the years, my perspective has shifted. Dr. Phil is right that the only person who can change you is you. As a corollary, the only person who can change them is them. I found that the appearance of effectiveness of flagrant displays of anger did not hold up over time unless emotional trauma was caused, which is wrong.

For the former, physical retreat is primo. People who won't take no for an answer can be very scary, since they're typically only that persistent for your money or your sex. If you're stalking away and they're stalking you, just remind them that it's a crime to try and stop someone from calling 911, and then pull out your cellphone. Also, harassment is a crime that is ambiguous from an external perspective... unless you're trying to retreat from the situation and they're refusing to let you, which makes it obvious.

For the latter, again, physical retreat is primo. Maybe I'm just a pathetic stereotype in my reliance on retreat, I don't know. I make every effort to communicate my own feelings without wrongly hurting anyone else; and once I've failed at explaining my human needs (since some people just don't get it), I haven't found anything better at defending them. No one has a right to your presence, so that is the one thing that you can always rightfully deny them.

 

[Wonkavision]

Umm in one word YES

Same here.

I relate to all of those things.

I'm exploring several treatment options for this.

 

[melomania]

INFP's angry? NEVER. Well almost never in my case, that's why when it does happen it's an emotional explosion, somebody gets hurt, mostly me, I feel so BAD even if the person deserved it and most of these people really had it coming. I went off on my supervisor at work a few months ago, (after months of holding it in)the woman walks on everybody and I was trying to find some good in her but I realized she was just MEAN because she was given power. One of my coworkers said she was shaking when I was done, she was so terrified. Strangely, the supervisor is so nice to me now. I guess she realized I have some backbone. I hate bullies. Yep, INFP's do get angry for a CAUSE.

Usually the only time that anger surfaces for me is when it forces its way out in a huge explosion. I'm normally extremely non-confrontational so I definitely bottle things up and when that anger does come out, it has definitely scared the shit out of me and those around me.

 

[blahblahbob]