[MBTI General] INFJ or INFP or another Type?

[Ender]

And you've somewhat mixed the "Don't tell them, I'll tell you". If I look at it from an INFJ/INFP standpoint, it might seem:

I mix a lot of things based off the situation at hand.

I doubt that healthy INFJs will become "black/whited" with their ideas for others.

Thats true, given enough info they tend to get a little more receptive that their initial view may not be exactly right.

Edit: It occurred that your "Don't tell them, I'll tell you." is an example of them not explaining their reasons but just telling a person what to do (such as an unhealthy INFJ would do). I think that's correct, is it? So conversly for an unhealthy INFP would not explain their reasoning but just expect people to 'know' by what they show them (their way of telling).

I don't know what his type is, other then he's very judgmental The unhealthy part goes without saying. He'll explain his reasons he just so far off the mark and paranoid that the world is out to get him that theres no reasoning with him when he's wrong about people.

To him I'm in the wrong because I prefer to live in the grey areas of life, picking and choosing when to be black or white based off the situation. I don't hate people when they cross me, and can forgive a lot of stuff and he doesn't like it when I do.

I'm really more of a centrist in everything, including politically.

 

[Vivid]

That is a wonderful site! I ought to share it with a friend of mine.

Since the day I came to these forums, I've felt like there was a lot of misunderstandings and discrimination. I noticed it IRL, too. I admit to having the biased opinion that my type is the greatest ( even though I consciously try to avoid thinking that ) and I've generalized about people before ( often without realizing it at the time, sometimes humorously ). Nonetheless, I know that the generalizations are wrong. I'm glad I got to read about what I was suspicious, but uncertain of.

I do want to comment on the issue that it might be good to ignore some people.

 

[zarc]

My chilidsh command for details, otherwise known as my Puer Si, will drive a stake through until it hits your Si. And then your devil shall be upon you, muahahaha!

My username foreshadows my intentions as well. Death in a Tower!

Alas, all is lost for me! Damn your Si to Hell! I've actually had devils upon me, thank you very much. They weren't really understanding of a human's need. I had to exercise them out....

I have no frickin idea why but all I could think of as to your foreshadowing intentions were of Poe's The Masque of the Red Death...

That is a wonderful site! I ought to share it with a friend of mine.

Since the day I came to these forums, I've felt like there was a lot of misunderstandings and discrimination. I noticed it IRL, too. I admit to having the biased opinion that my type is the greatest ( even though I consciously try to avoid thinking that ) and I've generalized about people before ( often without realizing it at the time, sometimes humorously ). Nonetheless, I know that the generalizations are wrong. I'm glad I got to read about what I was suspicious, but uncertain of.

I do want to comment on the issue that it might be good to ignore some people.

An INTJ not thinking their Type is the greatest even though they logically came to that conclusion w/o input from others? C'mon now!

But I must ask...for sure, you're only speaking of INTJ? I ask b/c I realise you have "INTJ" under your Uname and I ask b/c I've mainly inserted Vicky Jo's sites "INFJ.com" or "INFJ or INFP?: a closer look" here. I probably mentioned her husband's INTJ.org site (<--org seems so INTJ for some reason! ) to look at the Cognitive Processes so people could map themselves out. (It can become sooo easy once you learn about them! )

I'm glad you're overcoming your suspicions. What that have been the flawed logic of other's? Or the superficial 'emotions' when Extroverted Feeling is thrust into an INTJ's face (assuming you are an INTJ)?

 

[zarc]

Thats true, given enough info they tend to get a little more receptive that their initial view may not be exactly right.

If INFJs are emotionally healthy, their views and visions would never ever be wrong!

I don't know what his type is, other then he's very judgmental The unhealthy part goes without saying. He'll explain his reasons he just so far off the mark and paranoid that the world is out to get him that theres no reasoning with him when he's wrong about people.

How do you know my father?!!!!!!!

To him I'm in the wrong because I prefer to live in the grey areas of life, picking and choosing when to be black or white based off the situation. I don't hate people when they cross me, and can forgive a lot of stuff and he doesn't like it when I do.

He'd love to hate me! My Occupation is Living (as my bio states so I lie not! ). And I like Living the Full Spectrum of black, white and green! People crisscross me and it's fine! Guess he'd just cross me off, hmm.

I'm really more of a centrist in everything, including politically.

Only in the centre, eh? That's so black and white! Why not circlist that cycles like a cyclist! You can keep running in circles! Kinda like INFJ Ni Runs ---------------->*breath*------------->*faints then runs*-------------------> *smacked* Ni:

 

[zarc]

P & P

I did the Pride & Prejudice Jane Austen Thread of explaining in great detal my views on which two characters would've been an INFJ and INFP. If anyone is interested, mind that they're verrrrrrrry long, but what'd you expect of me? 1st Here, 2nd Here, 3rd Here, 4th Here. I solely comment on Mr. Darcy as a probable INTJ 1st Here and 2nd Here, though he's somewhat mentioned in the ones focusing more on Jane and Lizzy.

INFJ for Emotionally Unhealthy Lizzy
INFP for Emotionally Immature Jane

There is a difference, IMO, b/w Emotionally Unhealthy and Emotionally Immature as someone who is unhealthy may be mature but just reacting badly under stress. An emotionally unhealthy person reacting under stress may act such as a bombarded Fe-ed Lizzy who became so focused on the people around her, correcting the faults of her family or trying to (and hide them) but failed (so her Ni predictions came true..) Too much Fe - Ni = She lost perspective and kept hashing out bias against Mr. Darcy due to the machinations of Mr. Wickham. Concentrating so much on others is just as bad as concentrating on yourself or no one else...you leave no room for your own feelings or thoughts to flesh out but taken in all the feelings and thoughts of others. You won't discern your own from theirs, or it'll be much harder to. Once you are able to, you can return to being emotionally healthy.

An emotionally immature person may not have dealt with a wider range emotions (good/bad/ugly), whether they react well to it or naively to it--naively as Jane did as she'd never dealt with malicious people pitted against her like the Bingley sisters but she did realise their true intent eventually thus maturing emotionally- She's now better able to discern and not form bias b/c "My love is perfect so must be his family who will be my family, oh!"--- If you haven't experienced hardships or problems, when they arise, are you likely to find your way so easily as someone who has faced emotional crises? Not always so, but I'd imagine crises of all kinds push people into growing and recall there's room for differing perspectives that be good or may be bad for you.

Note: There is no bias towards proclaiming Lizzy in being an INFJ so if you haven't read in full length my points on both Lizzy, Jane or Mr. Darcy for my thoughts on typing them as I did, please do not waste your time correcting me. I don't mind you going there and tearing into my art, so long as you are thoughtful in your quest!

Lizzy used to piss me off until I realised how I could be as she was when stuck on biases for my "victimized" friends vs "their victimizing" evil SOBs----as a kid, only as a kid

 

[Vivid]

An INTJ not thinking their Type is the greatest even though they logically came to that conclusion w/o input from others? C'mon now!

But I must ask...for sure, you're only speaking of INTJ? I ask b/c I realise you have "INTJ" under your Uname and I ask b/c I've mainly inserted Vicky Jo's sites "INFJ.com" or "INFJ or INFP?: a closer look" here. I probably mentioned her husband's INTJ.org site (<--org seems so INTJ for some reason! ) to look at the Cognitive Processes so people could map themselves out. (It can become sooo easy once you learn about them! )

I'm glad you're overcoming your suspicions. What that have been the flawed logic of other's? Or the superficial 'emotions' when Extroverted Feeling is thrust into an INTJ's face (assuming you are an INTJ)?

lol Good point.

Nah, not just INTJs. Most of the stuff on that site about misconceptions with types can be applied to anyone ( assuming I'm not misunderstanding you ). The only preference the site lacked information about was Thinking, but that's fine since the site is for INFJs.
I have intj.org bookmarked. I'm definitely INTJ. I was pretty certain of it before, and I still am. The Cognitive Processes are interesting!

I don't think I fully understand your question. D=

 

[zarc]

lol Good point.

Nah, not just INTJs. Most of the stuff on that site about misconceptions with types can be applied to anyone ( assuming I'm not misunderstanding you ). The only preference the site lacked information about was Thinking, but that's fine since the site is for INFJs.
I have intj.org bookmarked. I'm definitely INTJ. I was pretty certain of it before, and I still am. The Cognitive Processes are interesting!

I don't think I fully understand your question. D=

I think I know where I erred! When I asked when if you were only speaking of INTJs it applied to the "greatest type there ever was made" lol Normally, I hear they're the "smartest" but I think I've heard "greatest" too.

You know, it somewhat occured to me that other Types could use Vicky Jo's sites to look at certain things such as Communcation Style or "J/P Myth (SUCH a myth, oi!) and others. But if you meant that other Types could use the INTJ.org, her husband's site, then I ENTIRELY agree! Who taught herself first on Cognitive Processes but on that INTJ! site!

I've told people, if doing it themselves, to run through the chart at the bottom to see where their Type lies with CP and then match it to the descriptions on each one as it's explained for INTJs. I don't know how easy it would be for people though if they aren't familiar with what the CPs mean (even if learning on there).

Edit: And thank you!

 

[Vivid]

I think I know where I erred! When I asked when if you were only speaking of INTJs it applied to the "greatest type there ever was made" lol Normally, I hear they're the "smartest" but I think I've heard "greatest" too.

You know, it somewhat occured to me that other Types could use Vicky Jo's sites to look at certain things such as Communcation Style or "J/P Myth (SUCH a myth, oi!) and others. But if you meant that other Types could use the INTJ.org, her husband's site, then I ENTIRELY agree! Who taught herself first on Cognitive Processes but on that INTJ! site!

I've told people, if doing it themselves, to run through the chart at the bottom to see where their Type lies with CP and then match it to the descriptions on each one as it's explained for INTJs. I don't know how easy it would be for people though if they aren't familiar with what the CPs mean (even if learning on there).

Edit: And thank you!

OH! Well to answer that question, yes. I use the word 'greatest' because I don't think INTJs are smarter than anyone else. Assuming they're the greatest is just a little subconscious error, though.

They can! That page was very informative. Those people are impressive.

I will be reading a lot about CP. Now. I never knew it existed until recently. O_O It's easy to understand.

 

[sciski]

I particularly like Vicky Jo's descriptions of the cognitive functions. They actually make sense! Usually Ni descriptions confound me.
INFJ or INFP? a closer look

 

[Ender]

If INFJs are emotionally healthy, their views and visions would never ever be wrong!

lol, so what about the "Like her, Not like her, Somewhat like her" then? I noticed you finally started going away from the "exactly like her" after everything I said

I'm still waiting for your responses since you've got me curious. Or did I scare you into thinking I wasn't interested anymore by my post here about J's? Could it be I've confused another J with my reactions?

How do you know my father?!!!!!!!

That must suck

He'd love to hate me! My Occupation is Living (as my bio states so I lie not! ). And I like Living the Full Spectrum of black, white and green! People crisscross me and it's fine! Guess he'd just cross me off, hmm.

I dunno, he's a little weird when it comes to women, he goes pretty much completely "whipped" when one shows interest in him.

Only in the centre, eh? That's so black and white! Why not circlist that cycles like a cyclist! You can keep running in circles! Kinda like INFJ Ni Runs ---------------->*breath*------------->*faints then runs*-------------------> *smacked* Ni:

I do enough circling inside my own head.

 

[Gabe]

I know atleast one enfp like that. and my infj freind is very analytical and usufull in figuring things like the future out.. unlike infp's. I like them and all, I just dont see there purpose. oh look at me Im emo, how dare you make fun of me for being different im special, I dont belong in the world and so what If I am acting like a stereotypical emo kid, im special... on goes the nfp rant

Yeah, until said _NFPs become Ghandi, Upton Sinclair, James Hillman (maybe), Deepak Chopra...
I assume you were kidding about the stereotypical emo part.

 

[Gabe]

Let me clarify: of course I don't think EVERY SINGLE INFP ON THE PLANET can't get anything done...that's a presumptious generalization to make...and not what I meant. I merely meant to say that from the dozens of INFPs I've encountered online and offline, there seems to be a correlation between not getting things done and their passiveness/procrastination/floaty-ness.

Sciski I loved the tornado metaphor!!! I'll have to discuss with my INFP boyfriend (btw he helped me coin the "Teddybear blackhole theory") Heart, I wuv you! Shadow...lol...try to keep the peace (I kid!).

OOooo, an imaginary correlation between people who identify themselves online as INFP, sometimes in terms of the very nonsense that you've mentioned. La dee da.

 

[zarc]

Yeah, until said _NFPs become Ghandi, Upton Sinclair, James Hillman (maybe), Deepak Chopra...
I assume you were kidding about the stereotypical emo part.

OOooo, an imaginary correlation between people who identify themselves online as INFP, sometimes in terms of the very nonsense that you've mentioned. La dee da.

I don't think you read all of the other reponses to their remarks but I think it's been rescinded by them as just experiences that they've personally had in relation to INFPs (assumed) online AND in real life INFPs that they know~ (and I even defended you ENFPs here )

Fear not, people already shredded them and all is forgiven for misunderstandings now~

Edit: And I must say again to anyone reading this, so not towards you Gabe , this is WHY I made this thread, due to ALL of the misunderstandings of ALL Types, let alone INFP 'vs' INFJ lol

 

[zarc]

A Note for all tuning in late in the game (Yello!~), I've gone and edited my OP at the BOTTOM of the post by putting the links of all my written observations so far specifically on INFP or INFJ and then for the misconceptions from responses that I've spotted (so maybe not all lol)about both Types or of that for other Types so far mentioned.

 

[zarc]

Carrying on...Evolution!

Evolving into Emotionally Healthy People from being Emotionaly Mature People as we experience and learn both from ourselves AND from others which can result in us evolving from personal experience/learning when being, or observing other's who are, Emotionally Unhealthy People from being Emotionally Immature People (assuming one is/has exp., for any INFP or INFJ, at one time or another from being emotionally unhealthy/immature, as we all are unhealthy both ways at one time or another and can grow during these differing + troublesome phases, please mind )! Huzzah! Both INFPs and INFJs hold back their feelings at times when feeling threatened by...too much feelings! But why? Where's the motivation of perceived threat, real or imaginary,that they sense coming from but may not know why? Whose feelings are scarying or warying them, theirs or others, and how does both theirs or others' feelings affect them differently? What probably scares them or makes them wary the most when it comes to perception of Threats? How do they detect such threats? Is it from Reaching in? Is it from Reaching out? INFPs' Fi naturally reaches in from others through Ne. INFJs' Ni naturally reaches out to others through Fe.

Afterwards for INFPs? INFPs whom have been observing inwardly and carefully gathering imput for quite some time so as to not to form bias of others will the begin recalling in great detail on all that they've taken in(Si) from those they've been gauging for sincerity of feelings (from Ne). Once INFPs (Fi) have concluded that those others' feelings towards them or their loved ones are safe, they will then show their truest feelings and thoughts in return to the newly Trusted Loved one by telling them in words how they care for them (Te) when they feel sure and ready. They are very choosey for doing all of that but it's a GOOD thing! And sometimes being very choosey is a BAD thing IF they take too long in figuring things out! In extremes cases, especially if it's very hard figuring someone out, it can make an INFP appear disinterested in others because they appear too quiet or the INFP asks them a little bit of questions because they might not be sure of what they want to ask you or they are VERY sure of the specific questions they want to ask you and to be satisfied with your responses. They can be slow to respond to a lot of questions because they aren't sure if it's appropriate to disclose but would rather you disclosed to them to get to know you better. But it isn't entirely so that they're NOT into you! They're just sensing you all out (Ne) and absorbing you all in! (Fi) Then remebering all that you said (Si) and then telling you what they think (Te)

Afterwards for INFJs? INFJs whom have been observing outwardly and carefully gathering imput for quite some time so as not to form bias of others will then begin thinking in great detail on all that they've taken in(Ti) from those they've been gauging for sincerity of feelings(from Fe). Once INFJs (Ni) have concluded that those others' feelings towards them or their loved ones are safe, they will then show their truest feelings and thoughts in return to the newly Trusted Loved one by showing them by deeds how they care for them (Se) when they feel sure and ready. They are very choosey for doing all of that but it's a GOOD thing! And sometimes being very choosey is a BAD thing IF they take too long in figuring things out! In extremes cases, especially if it's very hard figuring someone out, it can make an INFJ appear too interested in others because they appear too chatty or the INFJ asks them a lot more questions because they are very sure of what they want to ask you or they DON'T KNOW what they want to ask you so they ask a lot in order to be satisfied with your responses. They can be quick to respond to a lot more questions because they want to disclose lots in order to GET BACK lots from the person to get to know you better. But it isn't entirely so that they're INTO you! They're just sensing you all out (Fe) and absorbing you all in (Ni)! Then dissecting all that you said (Ti) and then showing you what they think (Se)

Now, for the analogy which I made as a depressed teen but expanded to suit INFPs and INFJs! Yay for depressions fueling Creativity! Yes, that's one way of how I, but one INFJ, expressed my sadness. But it's always paid off later so Huzzah for now and Sucks for then!

INFPs think of "Forest" as others' scary-wary feelings. INFJs think of "Tree" as your scary-wary feelings. The rest shall make sense now! I hope! It should! It'd better!

Now, to make other's Forests grow amongst an INFP's Tree and to make an INFJ's Tree grow within a Forest of Others'

from their Tree and To Other's Forest: An INFP's Introverted Feeling will start feeding from Everyone's Extraverted Forest of Feelings and stop clearcutting them. They stop nourishing only to their Introverted Tree of Feelings which has always been amongst a Forest of One as it's been safely planted away from the Extroverted Forest of Feelings which has been clearcutted so as not to shadow their beloved Tree. They start nourshing to and feeding from the Forest of Others People's Feelings. They happily begin planting other Trees which they hadn't allowed near their Tree to begins showing to them the wide ranges of colours of Leaves/Feelings from other people. They still see their beautiful Tree but not so intensely anymore with only regards to their own Tree.

To Their Tree and from other's Forest: An INFJ's Extroverted Feeling will stop nourishing to Everyone's Extraverted Tree of Feelings and start chopping off branches. They stop uprooting the spot from where their Introverted Tree of Feeling resides which has allowed too much space for a Forest for Everyone and start focusing on their beloved Tree which has been clearcutted for the sake of the Everyone's Extraverted Trees of Feeling whom they were nourishing which now overshadows their Tree. They start nourishing from and feeding to the Tree of Their Own Felings. They happily begin breaking branches which had obstructed their Tree from showing less of the wide ranges of colours of Leaves/Feelings to themselves. They still see other's beautiful Trees but not so intensely anymore without regards for their own Tree.

And that's not all folks! INFPs and INFJs can evolve with their last Four Weakest Cognitive Proceses and it DOESN'T stop there, oh noes! We can all vary back and forth depending on new circumstances and new people and new places and things in our lives which can devolve us or evolve us futher. But if we devolve by being Emotionally Unhealthy, it's not as bad in the longrun or even shortrun, as we've already learned how to be a better person, so it'll become easier to snap ourselves out of a rut/depression/sadness and to become happier, flourishing and nourshing people riding the full rollercoaster on the seat of our Cognitive Processes which we share with ALL Types! We'd be even BETTER than other Types in accessing their 'higher' functions if their STUCK by being Emotionally Unhealthy and not aware of why if Emotionally Immature! Hurray for Cognitive Processes!

What, you didn't know that's what I was explaing, CP?! It was all in the plan to fool you! My Ni is powerful, I say, and it knew what to do to charm you! (Were you charmed? An INFJs gotta know these things...)

Now, should any of you deem ME scary-wary by being crazy-maybe, maybe-crazy I am in being so wary-scary of YOU!

Is it so bad in enjoying yourself TOO much?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: All INFP and INFJ depictions that I've made are going to be consistently updated in the OP at the Bottom of the page until I feel my work is done (Is it ever? ) I also made responses to what I felt were misunderstandings which resulted in stereotypes some people have said about BOTH INFPs and INFJs as well as for other Types I spotted so far in this thread (and with the help of some others, those people have nicely rescinded their ranting on the stereotyped amateur station versions of whichever Type they were bashing ). My aim is not to destroy the stereo! My aim is to switch to another station which is more professional and understanding and likes to party! Playing the beautiful music that is INFP and INFJ and ISTP and all you other Types just tuning into My Station's TalkShow! As well as the TalkShows that other people chip in when I run a little short on material for you eager listeners! My Station, with all these people, is about with everyone and everyone but some times ourselves! AND everyone else! So if I become you all can :steam: together in free-flowing emotional waves of harmony!! /corniness

Crazy-maybe, again question you ? Scary-wary, am I coming to conclude...

 

[sciski]

Cue ABSOLUTE HORROR!

The process rings true for the INFP inner world - we are very slow to trust others with our inner thoughts and feelings. However, our actions and intent often immediately says "I am going to try to trust that this person is a good person and treat them that way". So we will be warmly reserved - reservedly warm? That's why it hurts an INFP so badly (some would say ridiculously over-the-top and disproportionately) if we are betrayed... because we've been fooled twice effectively - once by you, and once by ourselves.. ouch!

That's why we are both glacially slow, yet all smiley at you and stuff...

There is a quoted post on INFPgc that talks about this:
infp.globalchatter.com :: View topic - The Debt of Compassion - (Relationship currency)

Now the divergence I have comes with the "taken advantage of" concept... Its easy to see how others think INFP are taken advantage of... however, this totally misses where the INFP is coming from and what level the INFP is operating on. You perceive a "taken advantage of" when that's not the way the INFP sees it. The INFP was doing what INFPs do. They were being compassionate and sensitive to others. The basic idea here is that INFPs operate using different values and different concepts when it comes to relationships between people.

I've characterized this in two way:
1. Approach - the INFP approaches most situations coming from Trust, they look at you and decide right then and there whether they trust you or not... it takes seconds. (I've taken the "warm-fuzzy's" concept I found else where [maybe in a post on this list, can't remember] and extended it a little... Its not current... but its a conceptually close to where I am with this now:
IN Emotions ).

2. Currency of Exchange - the INFP is looking for something from a relationship that most people are not, or at least not in the same quantity. The INFps "Currency" is Compassion... They give compassion and expect repayment in compassion (Debt of Compassion). They want to be accepted for being who they are (like everyone) but the difference is that they will forgive anything out of compassion for who the person is... they expect you to return such to them... they want you to forgive them their INFP transgressions. (If you want acceptance and understanding go seek out an INFP... but, if you want a relationship with them, you best be able to pay back with that same kind of acceptance and understanding.)

Is this true for INFJs as well then? Both are slow to (truly) open up, but with your description of INFJ processes, at least Fe is active enough to be (apparently) overtly warm, whereas INFP is so passive that even though they are shooting metaphysical goodwill at you, you still feel left out in the cold!

Once INFPs (Fi) have concluded that those others' feelings towards them or their loved ones are safe, they will then show their truest feelings and thoughts in return to the newly Trusted Loved one by telling them in words how they care for them (Te) when they feel sure and ready.

The metaphysical goodwill is an important point - until the point where we are really truly comfortable, INFPs don't tend to communicate their love or warm feelings in spoken words. The words simply seem trite and cliched.

In dealing with an INFP, you really should be looking for non-verbal cues - the tone that the INFP is giving off. We talk in a completely different language sometimes! That may be why lots of us seem to enjoy written language... it forces us to try to express ourselves better. We get wordy because this is a medium where we know we are open to misinterpretation. Hence more and more words to express what we normally express non-verbally.

Um, I think I've gone completely off topic at some point!

But what you are saying:
Getting an INFP's trust: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... tell them about yourself, wait wait wait wait wait... (giving them no reason to distrust you), suddenly they tell you they like you! Or nothing.

Getting an INFJ's trust: wait, answer questions, wait, answer more questions (giving them no reason to distrust you), suddenly they are looking after your wellbeing! Or nothing.

And that's not all folks! INFPs and INFJs can evolve with their last Four Weakest Cognitive Proceses and it DOESN'T stop there, oh noes! We can all vary back and forth depending on new circumstances and new people and new places and things in our lives which can devolve us or evolve us futher

And yes yes yes to the development of the lesser-used functions! I don't like the thought of being hamstrung by theory so that I will never be able to develop some functions healthily. Phooey to that! I liked the function summary at cognitiveprocesses.com (I think - so much for Si... :rolli where it stated every function in a negative or a positive format. Your primary function could be a hero or dominant. Your secondary could be parental or smothering... all the way down to the 8th function! Both had positive and negative expressions, and I think awareness of the two types of expressions makes all the difference in whether you develop as a person. You just need to be self-aware enough to assess how you are expressing each function, whether in a positive way or a negative way.

I'll come back and comment on the forest and the trees when I have some more time.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

I know atleast one enfp like that. and my infj freind is very analytical and usufull in figuring things like the future out.. unlike infp's. I like them and all, I just dont see there purpose.

If you're looking for a generic, easily identified purpose which unites all INFPs you will certainly have trouble. INFPs are pretty idiosyncratic since they are primarily focused on personal values which are ultimately subjective. They rarely adopt value systems in toto, so the values of individual INFPs frequently differ widely.

oh look at me Im emo, how dare you make fun of me for being different im special, I dont belong in the world and so what If I am acting like a stereotypical emo kid, im special... on goes the nfp rant

While I think this is a bullshit description of a healthy INFP, it's not a bad description of me as a teenager. I still cringe when I think of the shit I did and thought back then, though to be fair (to myself) I had issues. Plus, I think I did a pretty good job of disguising my angst. Except from my close friends - hence the cringing. And the "journal" I kept for about 3 months until I started to feel like a cliche and burnt it. I could've just thrown it in the bin, but I had to burn it. Did I mention that I was a teenager?

Imagine a blackhole...the darkest deepest blackhole there ever was. Now imagine that for whatever reason you decide to be friends with this blackhole. So naturally you pour your feelings and ideas into this gigantic black pit. Since it's a blackhole, whatever you pour in seems to disappear...and though you may wait for a response the blackhole is just going to sit there without moving or changing. That's Fi. Nothing seems to go in or come out since everything is felt internally. INFPs are very intense/sensitive/passionate people...although to the rest of the world they appear as silent blackholes. I call this: "The Teddybear Blackhole Phenomenon," lol.

I think the only people who would see me as a black-hole are either people who don't know me well or people I don't like. Sure, INFPs are not the most immediately responsive people. We are, by nature, extremely internal. When it comes to emoting our feelings we are (with apologies to all INFPs everywhere) a bit like cats. We tend to choose when and where we will show affection, and are uncomfortable feeling obligated to emote. When we do demonstrate affection (rarely for me), it's often low-key. So don't blink or you may miss it.


Edit: so I've read some more of this thread and it turns out that this post is entirely and pathetically redundant. GJ, people!

 

[zarc]

Cue ABSOLUTE HORROR!

Is this true for INFJs as well then? Both are slow to (truly) open up, but with your description of INFJ processes, at least Fe is active enough to be (apparently) overtly warm, whereas INFP is so passive that even though they are shooting metaphysical goodwill at you, you still feel left out in the cold!

The difference with INFJs is that they are VERY open and disclose things that may have been very personal in their past (like childabuse) if they have 'worked through it'. If they are suffering abuse, of any kind, at the time, they will not want to share it, even with loved ones as they might feel/think they failed their expectations or their own. If they feel comfortable sharing, it's normally going to be used to understand themselves better (as they'll begin wanting to know more and more about themselves as much as they enjoy knowing more and more of other people. They fascinate themselves as much if not more! lol). So, sometimes they may forget that what's appropriately okay for them now (mentioning abuse/etc), may not be for others as they once were more aware of the appropriateness of not mentioning such a thing. They may be so pumped up to share what the now 'understsand/know' that they want to see if others feel/know/exp the same and if they 'learned' the same way or if they're experiencing it, they'll use themselves or people they know (but not use names or distort a few things in a white lie to ensure the identity is safe) as examples. "You can change and move on because I, also, had ____ and went through ____. I know it was very hard for me but ____ helped and _____ helped, maybe ____ or _____ or even! ____ can help you too!" Or they then expand in learning new ways of helping others by 'linking/connecting/piecing' their own experiences to similar ones or envisioning new/different ways of perceiving other outcomes/ideas/exp by thinking "out of the box".

The things that are held as values/sacred/deep feeelings are never openly displayed to others unless they are the most trusted of friends or sometimes they haven't figured out their true feelings yet (INFPs are much better at it initially). They aren't feigning being overtly nice for show, they're doing it naturally as an expression just as INFPs naturally use subtle clues to cue people in-- One way is not better or more 'representative' of the sincerity of either type, the actual individual INFJ or individual INFP can be as deceptive or sincere as the next.. They overtly ask questions to show interest, perhaps if they don't yet know the other person, so they can know them better. It's about learning all the quirks so they can better appeal (not 'showy' kinds) and better their deeds for appreciation for that person (finding the PERFECT gift for them based on all they've learned vs just picking the newest gadget or not saying anything inappropriate that they've learned will upset the person unless they feel they must intervene).

INFJs can become very quiet when unsure of people surrounding them, there's too much noise/people making noise or they don't like the people around them. Even when approaching people they are attracted to, they can become quiet about their feelings("Are they my REAL feelings? grr! oh no, I think I really love this person but is it too fast of me? Is it okay?") but can still appear 'interested' in a friendly way.

I know from personal experience, and reading from other INFJs on MBTIc and online, that a lot of people mistaken our openly friendly nature being inquistive with a person as a token of deeper friendship. It may or may not be. INFJs get easily excited when trying to "go deeper within people", especially if that person is a kind that they've never encountered before. I've read that people are MYSTIFIED by INFJs, I'd say it's too very true that PEOPLE MYSTIFY INFJs too! They fascinate them, they want to plumb deeper and deeper into the beauty and ugliness of nature and all things inbetween, if they are an aware and healthier kind of INFJ. The problem is sometimes they won't go and look within themselves as to what makes them beautiful and ugly too. I know, for myself, I've written poetry about others and when people read them they think "OMG! You poor thing, you actually were ___ or had ____"...when I look confused as I'm just translating what I see in others into my writing. I've written on love, perverse love, intangible love, horrific love, transcending love, anger, anger against yourself and others + other themes taken in multiple contexts or can be chosen by the reader how they'd like to interpret it.

I know that I translate my own issues into my writing too, sometimes unaware while feeling intensely sad about something either done against me or someone I care about. I hate to say it but I also noticed my best writing SO FAR (poetry/etc) is done when I'm deeply depressed or sad as it's been years that I was in such a state (ages 14-20 and I'm almost 22 now lol OMY! ALMOST!!! ). When I write on beauty or happiness, etc, it's normally due to inspiration from others or objects or natural things I see. I do write when I feel myself to be beautiful or happy but I'm more likey out expressing it than writing about it. I think I feel more compelled to write when I'm in a 'mood' to maintain it so as to get all that I want written out (using music to enhance it too, for being sad, angry or happy etc).

INFJs may or may not write as I write or use it that way. We all, even INFPs, can find many ways in expressing ourselves. I can think that INFPs would likely excel in writing too (if they choose to) but would probably be better at writing "themselves" out in poetry etc or their feelings on others rather than what the other people feel instead. They CAN do it too, just like an INFJ can writing about themselves, but I can imagine a less evolved INFP concentrating more on figuring themselves out in relation to others on paper/online journals/etc as a less evolved INFJ concentrates more on figuring out others in relation to themselves on paper/online journals/etc.

Does that make sense or the INFP parts resonate with you? lol

The metaphysical goodwill is an important point - until the point where we are really truly comfortable, INFPs don't tend to communicate their love or warm feelings in spoken words. The words simply seem trite and cliched.

In dealing with an INFP, you really should be looking for non-verbal cues - the tone that the INFP is giving off. We talk in a completely different language sometimes! That may be why lots of us seem to enjoy written language... it forces us to try to express ourselves better. We get wordy because this is a medium where we know we are open to misinterpretation. Hence more and more words to express what we normally express non-verbally.

That's why I said they're misperceived by others as being disinterested, when it's normally the other people who can't recognise the subtle clues. Whereas INFJs are misperceived by others as being too interested when for other people who normally feel easily flattered don't realise the INFJ may just want to understand what makes them a 'different' human than the next person or they want to hear a new POV for fun/serious interest.

Um, I think I've gone completely off topic at some point!

It's okay to get off point, spoken by an INFJ to boot! So LONG as you keep talking about either or both INFPs and INFJs so not entirely off point

But what you are saying:
Getting an INFP's trust: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait... tell them about yourself, wait wait wait wait wait... (giving them no reason to distrust you), suddenly they tell you they like you! Or nothing.

Getting an INFJ's trust: wait, answer questions, wait, answer more questions (giving them no reason to distrust you), suddenly they are looking after your wellbeing! Or nothing.

It's more along the lines of a less devloped INFP or INFJ to wait for so long unless they are absolutely incapble of figuring the other person or their own feelings. Such as with the "sense" the other person is dishonest or untrusthworthy yet "everyone else" is buying into them. Despite the joke I sometimes read/hear that INFPs will just "go with the flow", they most certainly WILL NOT, if they are aware/better developed as with ANY person of ANY Type. Nor will an INFJ as we're so usually joked as The Conspiracists! (it could be true lolol). I can't find it or recall (I found it on the forum first) but here's one on prayers (joking about perfectionist INFJs and procrastinating INFPs)

And yes yes yes to the development of the lesser-used functions! I don't like the thought of being hamstrung by theory so that I will never be able to develop some functions healthily. Phooey to that! I liked the function summary at cognitiveprocesses.com (I think - so much for Si... :rolli where it stated every function in a negative or a positive format. Your primary function could be a hero or dominant. Your secondary could be parental or smothering... all the way down to the 8th function! Both had positive and negative expressions, and I think awareness of the two types of expressions makes all the difference in whether you develop as a person. You just need to be self-aware enough to assess how you are expressing each function, whether in a positive way or a negative way.

Yea, there's such misunderstanding about CP due to people, either years ago who were just learning/developing MBTI CP or people who continue to spread the wrong idea about it so CPs seem like such misnomers. The application that is generally "understood" that we only access our 4 Higher CPs is incorrect, or that there aren't two ways, Healthy and Unhealthy, in accessing all of those functions (I have yet to see Typologists develop it as far as I did with EHealthy and EMature as well as UHealthy and IMature. My next post will highlight just how I've created and view it as well as CP being a "Control Panel" in our minds. I'd like to help people understand that we all develop ALL 8 CPs if we evolve and that all the differences in our life and dealings with others and crises and situations all thrust or pull us along being evolved or devolved, but which ever way you are you CAN change and people HAVE changed, for better AND for worse. But our motivations for our Type remain the same whether happy or stressed, it's that we are empowered in recognising why we feel compelled to do one way over some other Type's different way. When people are Emotionally Healthy and Emotionally mature, they look the same because they are well balanced

I'll come back and comment on the forest and the trees when I have some more time.

Sure, you know I love hearing what people think! INFJ-thingie!

DD =

 

[sciski]

The difference with INFJs is that they are VERY open and disclose things that may have been very personal in their past (like childabuse) if they have 'worked through it'.

That frequently amazes me about INFJs.

I know from personal experience, and reading from other INFJs on MBTIc and online, that a lot of people mistaken our openly friendly nature being inquistive with a person as a token of deeper friendship. It may or may not be. INFJs get easily excited when trying to "go deeper within people", especially if that person is a kind that they've never encountered before. I've read that people are MYSTIFIED by INFJs, I'd say it's too very true that PEOPLE MYSTIFY INFJs too!

I do like the inquisitive nature of the INFJs I know - though their pointed (and persistent!) questions that seek to clarify certain words or phrases we use can sometimes flummox and frustrate me 'cause it's so hard to express all the associations that Ne gives to a particular word or phrase.

The problem is sometimes they won't go and look within themselves as to what makes them beautiful and ugly too. I know, for myself, I've written poetry about others and when people read them they think "OMG! You poor thing, you actually were ___ or had ____"...when I look confused as I'm just translating what I see in others into my writing.

I sometimes do this when I feel incredibly empathetic towards someone (or someone I've invented in my head), but usually it's all about moi.

I also noticed my best writing SO FAR (poetry/etc) is done when I'm deeply depressed or sad as it's been years that I was in such a state ... I think I feel more compelled to write when I'm in a 'mood' to maintain it so as to get all that I want written out (using music to enhance it too, for being sad, angry or happy etc).

Perhaps when you are deeply depressed and sad, those are the few times that you're not out seeking people to understand? That way there is only yourself - and Fi - to focus on. I'm not sure if it's the sadness that causes Fi-focus, or the Fi-focus that causes sadness though!

I can think that INFPs would likely excel in writing too (if they choose to) but would probably be better at writing "themselves" out in poetry etc or their feelings on others rather than what the other people feel instead.

Yes, mainly because we are always so lost about ourselves! We need to do it to figure stuff out and sort through everything that Fi is shouting and Ne is telling us.
Recently I did put myself in someone else's shoes and wrote about a hurtful situation from her perspective. It was amazingly freeing. I have used the 'put yourself in someone else's shoes' in the past, but only in thought and feeling. Writing things down and articulating what she might have felt and said made a huge difference to my perception of her. It's as if the thoughts became real because they were written down, instead of floating amongst all the other possibilities in my head. I highly recommend it!

Does that make sense or the INFP parts resonate with you? lol

Yep, made lots of sense!

Whereas INFJs are misperceived by others as being too interested when for other people who normally feel easily flattered don't realise the INFJ may just want to understand what makes them a 'different' human than the next person or they want to hear a new POV for fun/serious interest.

Hence the 'INFJ in your life being fascinated' one minute, then suddenly they are gone! Luckily an INFJ herself warned us of this phenomena before she disappeared... I'm still waiting for her to come back because she was awesome! (note the passivity! Would an xNFJ have hunted her down?)

It's more along the lines of a less devloped INFP or INFJ to wait for so long unless they are absolutely incapble of figuring the other person or their own feelings. Such as with the "sense" the other person is dishonest or untrusthworthy yet "everyone else" is buying into them.

Ah. Okay!

(I have yet to see Typologists develop it as far as I did with EHealthy and EMature as well as UHealthy and IMature. My next post will highlight just how I've created and view it as well as CP being a "Control Panel" in our minds.
I'd like to help people understand that we all develop ALL 8 CPs if we evolve and that all the differences in our life and dealings with others and crises and situations all thrust or pull us along being evolved or devolved, but which ever way you are you CAN change and people HAVE changed, for better AND for worse.

Well I hope this continues to interest you for a while! I might have to lock you in a box to make sure you don't run off after some other intriguing thing..

(Still cogitating on forest/trees analogy! In my mind there is extra pruning and vines added to the scenery, but I'm not sure if this just my lack of sleep speaking!)

 

[zarc]

That frequently amazes me about INFJs.

lol Yea, the Here One Moment, Gone The Next really strikes people. And people have told me it made them sad or disappointed if I left, in their views, abruptly wheras I thought about it hard or just "forgot" as I finished what I wanted to "learn about them" and moved elsewhere. Whether with people or theories or things.

Perhaps when you are deeply depressed and sad, those are the few times that you're not out seeking people to understand? That way there is only yourself - and Fi - to focus on. I'm not sure if it's the sadness that causes Fi-focus, or the Fi-focus that causes sadness though!

I've started re-reading an old LJournal I had for 4-5 years since about 14-15. It really struck up painful memories. It's rather that if I'm deeply depressed or sad, I use other people's "emotions" to mirror what I think mine should be if I haven't slightly/fully understood my true feelings yet. It can also be through them rather like a vessel I reach into and return into myself, their wrongful or rightful view of me (w/e they've perceived), and I transcribe it into words, mostly abstractly in poems/stories or written thoroughly out in journal-form.

Yep, made lots of sense!

Yay!

Hence the 'INFJ in your life being fascinated' one minute, then suddenly they are gone! Luckily an INFJ herself warned us of this phenomena before she disappeared... I'm still waiting for her to come back because she was awesome! (note the passivity! Would an xNFJ have hunted her down?)

Yup, as I agreed I do that, myself. Sometimes it's being overwhelmed by too many forces. I notice if I'm in any group where there's conflict within, I do the mediating-mothering role. When it occurs too often and I realise how cyclical their issues w/ whomever are, I end it to perserve emotional/intellectual sanity. I've learned that it's okay to "not save" all the time as if they didn't learn the first time or the second and keep repeating the pattern under a new guise, they will likely never stop until they themselves realise the pattern. No matter how much you might try to help---Waste of your energy.

Ah. Okay!

I'm somewhat worried you might take all that I say as being 110% correct (remember I'm no Type Specialist, just a new amateur). Flatters me, , but please contradict me if any of what I says doesn't strike a chord with you, for either Type or any idea I display.

Well I hope this continues to interest you for a while! I might have to lock you in a box to make sure you don't run off after some other intriguing thing..

I most certaintly will. I created single Totem animals for INTJs (and it's NO Owl kekeke *loves the creature*), INFJs and am screening down what I think applies for INFPs. I thought I might try to be a Type Specialist but I have too many careers (that link) in my life which will likely not allow me to focus well or invest appropriate energy into it beyond a serious hobby. I do plan on approaching Vicky Jo, as I fancy her a Mentor with a Rosetta Stone, and giving her my info if she deems it applicable, firstly, and something which might delve Type into a whole new level as she has access to Dr.Berens and the others as well and they can all run amok with frenzy (if they find interest in what I say) lol. I thought about writing privately on it all and perhaps publishing it (I will with fiction/etc) but I realised I'd rather share it all so that everyone can have access. I'm thinking of making a site....and work slowly on one Type to the next...but I'll always maintain I'm not a Specialist and people should truly seek a competent one if they want to plumb deeper in their type (or even ascertain if they are which type they think they are. I plan on seeing one soon).

As with everything I do, you'll find I don't think outside of the box, I have no box

My only problem is that I've become too invested in this forum (look at my posts and when I joined...) as I'm recovering from illness/time off from uni + to focus on my goals + I'm neglecting other matters I shouldn't be.

I know I'm Emotionally Unhealthy in the sense that I'm neglecting that which I need to do to heal + move forward in life but I'm Emotionally Mature as I've recongised my problems and am highly aware about yhrm. Problem is (with INFJs in general) we try to focus on the long-term solutions and sometimes ignore the short-term solutions...I realised how stubborn I became after too many people kept telling me to go back to my high paying job at a hospital (for my age ,that is) which is incredibly, disgustingly lacking in principle (from docs to nurses to everyone else down the CoCommand). Or telling me I should hurry up and do something (which is what resulted in chaos somewhat to begin with). I've saved more than necessary for "the future"(from old childhood fears) but nothing is spent on me (to "treat"myself) and I realised how worried I was of wanting to leave but having "typical" lack of for my age group first leaving home. So, I may just take a break for a while to fully write out my ideas (but maintain interest in a few threads such as this) or limit myself in which Threads where I might tread...

It's hard (for INFJs in general) to stretch focus on too many things at the same time. I'll post all that I've written so far and anything I think up on before I so much as touch any other comparisons b/w other Types wrongly misconstrued or confused as to which they belong to.

(Still cogitating on forest/trees analogy! In my mind there is extra pruning and vines added to the scenery, but I'm not sure if this just my lack of sleep speaking!)

It made sense, though? I wondered if I should translate it but I felt that I did that already with the prior sections on INFPs and INFJs to mirror the analogy I put after them. Did you realise that? I may edit it so people'll get it if not easily understood.