[INFJ] INFJ Hate Thread

[Kiddo]

INFJs, trough the use of dominant Ni, possess the same abstract perception of reality that INTJs do. The "problem" arises with their aux. use of Fe, which unlike Te, doesn't classify their perceptions as a possible truth, be instead applies it as the truth. Not only does it seek to classify something as either "good" or "bad", it also seeks to apply this perception to other people. INFJs suffer from a limited view of the possibilities in this aspect, and it has led to a lot of conflict between myself and others. They perceive something as the truth and likewise any other view, however plausible is ruled out and met with extreme resistance. Disagree with an INFJ and they will likely tell you that you "have no conceince", because any view they take has to be the ultimate moral truth. I've noted that INFJs are among the types that are least likely to be able to weigh a reality in an objective manner.

I don't know what you are talking about. INTJs tend to think they have the best possible truth whereas INFJs generally dismiss the idea of truth altogether. I may argue my point of view, but that is all it is. There are no qualitative absolute truths in this world. In essence, INTJs are more obsessed with proving to everyone that they are right, whereas INFJs are more obsessed with proving that no person is ever completely right. NiTe builds a case for the best possible "truth", NiFe argues that people are fallible and truth is subjective. Hence why INTJ/INFJ arguments tend to go on so long. The INTJ is dedicated to arguing that their position is the "right" one and the INFJ is dedicated to proving that the INTJ's position is not completely right.

 

[Griffi97]

I Hence why INTJ/INFJ arguments tend to go on so long. The INTJ is dedicated to arguing that their position is the "right" one and the INFJ is dedicated to proving that the INTJ's position is not completely right.

I have to agree with this. I used to have a very close INTJ friend. We had a disagreement, which I still feel strongly that there was no clear right or wrong in the situation, just a difference of opinion. She however felt so strongly that her position was the "right" one that she wrote me off forever as a friend. I felt bad about this for 2 years before I finally just let it go.

(Okay, I admit, I still feel bad about it, but trying to communicate with her has been impossible since she won't even acknowledge any communication from me.)

 

[nightning]

^ Well said! Much agreement.

I've noticed the same in many INTJs... to them, there's an absolute truth... and it happens (most of the time) to be theirs. Where as to an INFJ, pretty much everything is subjective. Something is only relatively true... under specific circumstances and specific view points.

Which is why you see so many qualifiers and disclaimers in my posts. Very few things to me is absolute.

 

[MindBlow]

Yep, I'll just hang on to what the last four posters said...

 

[Harlow_Jem]

-so stubborn
-pitifully and disgustingly emotional (here's a tissue you gross, leaky-eyed crybabies)
-laughably idealistic

 

[redacted]

I don't know what you are talking about. INTJs tend to think they have the best possible truth whereas INFJs generally dismiss the idea of truth altogether. I may argue my point of view, but that is all it is. There are no qualitative absolute truths in this world. In essence, INTJs are more obsessed with proving to everyone that they are right, whereas INFJs are more obsessed with proving that no person is ever completely right. NiTe builds a case for the best possible "truth", NiFe argues that people are fallible and truth is subjective. Hence why INTJ/INFJ arguments tend to go on so long. The INTJ is dedicated to arguing that their position is the "right" one and the INFJ is dedicated to proving that the INTJ's position is not completely right.

i don't know about you, but i pretty much always agree with INTJs. in fact, i'm probably more obsessed with truth than they are; Te doesn't care as much about truth as implementation. Ti wants a completely sound framework for truth.

 

[Kiddo]

i don't know about you, but i pretty much always agree with INTJs. in fact, i'm probably more obsessed with truth than they are; Te doesn't care as much about truth as implementation. Ti wants a completely sound framework for truth.

You are an INTP right? Dominant Ti is whole different story to tertiary Ti. NiFe begs to the subjectivity of truth, because it so easily recognizes the fallibility of human beings and their limited capacity to percieve.

 

[TK*]

-so stubborn
-pitifully and disgustingly emotional (here's a tissue you gross, leaky-eyed crybabies)
-laughably idealistic

Hahaha! Nice!

OK, I have more INFJ hate material.

I hate INFJs because
-the whole "crusade" thing gets old...real fast
-they think they know everything (when they don't) and come off as real snots/idiots
-they're overly sensitive wankers
-they're contradictory in their beliefs
-they can sit and rant for 3hrs+ and then actually expect you to listen without getting bored and or falling asleep when usually what they're ranting about is stupid to begin with
-they are ridiculously stubborn to the point where it's almost childish
-they hold grudges for long periods of time
-they're not worth getting to know (they actually PRIDE themselves on being difficult to understand!!!)

And looking back at this list...I can nod my head to each of these and say: "Yeah...and that's why I'm so friggin' awesome" with sincere satisfaction.

I gotta admit...it's pretty awesome being a INFJ!

 

[redacted]

You are an INTP right? Dominant Ti is whole different story to tertiary Ti.

i'm an INFJ for sure. i just test as an INTP often.

i guess i should probably remove that link from my sig, or maybe doctor the scores.

NiFe begs to the subjectivity of truth, because it so easily recognizes the fallibility of human beings and their limited capacity to percieve.

sure, but Ni and Fe aren't the only functions INFJs use. i use Ni/Fe for moral/ethical concerns, and i use Ni/Ti in my quest for truth. i'm obsessed with truth and always have been -- i NEED to know exactly why and how everything works (cause/effect relationships, etc.). if i can't figure something out, i have a really hard time functioning -- it eats away at me -- i can't relax at all until my Ti is satisfied.

 

[Pseudonym_Alpha]

Hmm well for me personally, I HATE PEOPLE who are overwhelming and are very arrogant....people like that....really throw me =| ..

 

[Kiddo]

sure, but Ni and Fe aren't the only functions INFJs use. i use Ni/Fe for moral/ethical concerns, and i use Ni/Ti in my quest for truth. i'm obsessed with truth and always have been -- i NEED to know exactly why and how everything works (cause/effect relationships, etc.). if i can't figure something out, i have a really hard time functioning -- it eats away at me -- i can't relax at all until my Ti is satisfied.

What kind of truth?

I need to understand the meaning of things and find connections or new ways in how they can be utilized, but truth is simply so subjective, it would be a waste of my time to pursue such a thing. The reality is that every individual has a different conception of truth, because everyone has different perceptions, experiences, and values.

The INFJ is on a crusade to preserve their integrity which means basing their actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. It's why we are so stubborn and unyielding. Ni/Fe is not "moral/ethical concerns" it is the defining essence of the INFJ. It leads us to make assumptions with very little information and to stand by our convictions long after reasoning would indicate that we should change our stance. It's the INTPs who seek absolute accuracy and clarity.

INFJs use tertiary Ti to understand where another person is coming from, by following their logic. Your self description just sounds much more like dominant Ti.

Introverted Thinking strives to extract the essence of the Idea from various externals that express it. In the extreme, this conceptual essence wants no form or substance to verify its reality. Knowing the Truth is enough for INTPs; the knowledge that this truth can (or could) be demonstrated is sufficient to satisfy the knower. "Cogito, ergo sum" expresses this prime directive quite succinctly.

I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.

 

[redacted]

What kind of truth?

I need to understand the meaning of things and find connections or new ways in how they can be utilized, but truth is simply so subjective, it would be a waste of my time to pursue such a thing. The reality is that every individual has a different conception of truth, because everyone has different perceptions, experiences, and values.

well, yeah... truth is technically "subjective". but if you define a frame of reference, it can still be absolute inside of that frame (physics, math, etc.)

but even in philosophy, it makes sense to quest for truth. for example, dualism is inconsistent with itself and monism isn't, therefore monism is true according to my reasoning. i can also use pieces of reasoning from computer science and my intuition to deduce that functionalism is also true (the notion that if two things function the same way, they are the same).

etc.

The INFJ is on a crusade to preserve their integrity which means basing their actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. It's why we are so stubborn and unyielding. Ni/Fe is not "moral/ethical concerns" it is the defining essence of the INFJ. It leads us to make assumptions with very little information and to stand by our convictions long after reasoning would indicate that we should change our stance. It's the INTPs who seek absolute accuracy and clarity.

the first bolded part is all about Ti reasoning.

the second bolded part just isn't true. Ni doesn't just stop working. if you come across new information (like that you are logically incorrect), Ni will integrate that information.

INFJs use tertiary Ti to understand where another person is coming from, by following their logic. Your self description just sounds much more like dominant Ti.

who's to say that Ti can't be developed further than that? i was raised by an INTP father, who i modeled my coping strategies after. withdraw, analyze, figure out how things work. the more you figure out, the better you can strategize to protect yourself.

I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.

i'm basing it on the fact that i'm an Ni dom and i navigate the outer world through Fe. just because you don't focus as much as i do on Ti doesn't mean i'm not an INFJ.

also, i'm amazingly good at figuring out people's assumptions and beliefs with very little information, i'm a great therapist (everyone always calls me when they're down), and i have a very strong system of principles that i stick by. when i've fallen short of these principles, i'm screwed up for weeks, i lose sleep, and i do anything in my power to make it up to people that have been hurt.

i'm an INFJ.

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ************* (13)
unused
introverted Sensing (Si) ****** (6)
unused
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35.5)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************************** (47.5)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************* (19)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************************** (44.3)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********************************************** (47.5)
excellent use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************** (27.2)
average use

 

[Motor Jax]

i read the title, and thought, "who be hatin' the INFJ's now?"


"i reckon we ain't seen but a few of 'em the last week or two"






ha ha, just feeling pretty good right now...

 

[Kiddo]

ialso, i'm amazingly good at figuring out people's assumptions and beliefs with very little information, i'm a great therapist (everyone always calls me when they're down), and i have a very strong system of principles that i stick by. when i've fallen short of these principles, i'm screwed up for weeks, i lose sleep, and i do anything in my power to make it up to people that have been hurt.

Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world. The other functions are usually in danger of becoming slaves to the Ni and the result is we stick to things come hell or high water. But perhaps it is possible that those who master Ti can be more aloof and distant. Nonetheless, I still don't see why an INFJ would seek truth over personal growth and dedication. What kind of truth are you looking for? A philosophical truth or a logical truth?

I've dedicated a great deal of energy in the pursuit of philosophical truths about the nature of reality. I invite you to share some of your insight in my old Objectivism vs. Relativism thread. Is that kind of truth you are talking about? My views are probably much more consistent with a duality than yours, but I'm just curious if your "truth" is of the same nature as mine.

 

[nightning]

Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world. The other functions are usually in danger of becoming slaves to the Ni and the result is we stick to things come hell or high water. But perhaps it is possible that those who master Ti can be more aloof and distant. Nonetheless, I still don't see why an INFJ would seek truth over personal growth and dedication. What kind of truth are you looking for? A philosophical truth or a logical truth?

Question for you kiddo... what is a "typical" INFJ? I thought the first rule for us is always being unique.

There's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have a developed Ti.

It is only the INFJ who relies too much on Fe that is stubborn, unyielding, relentless...

As to personal goals... It's hard to define what consists of valid ones and which "doesn't"... afterall there is the saying "Truth will set you free."

 

[Kiddo]

It is only the INFJ who relies too much on Fe that is stubborn, unyielding, relentless...

I'm just reiterating what a lot of INFJs agreed to in the singlemindedness thread. In fact, I think every INFJ in that thread but dissonance agreed that those are traits inherent in INFJs. I actually think it is when all the other functions become slaves to the Ni, that we end up that way. Fe is about harmony, so it doesn't make sense that reliance on it would lead to inharmonious situations where a person is stubborn and unyielding.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I'm just reiterating what a lot of INFJs agreed to in the singlemindedness thread. In fact, I think every INFJ in that thread but dissonance agreed that those are traits inherent in INFJs.

*Waits to see who buys that*- Fuck, never mind the joke. Dude you are totally testing him.

I actually think it is when all the other functions become slaves to the Ni, that we end up that way. Fe is about harmony, so it doesn't make sense that reliance on it would lead to inharmonious situations where a person is stubborn and unyielding.

And you'd be correct.

Most of the weaker characteristics that are found in INFJs are due to their dominant function (Introverted iNtuition) overtaking their personality to the point that the other forces in their personality exist merely to serve the purposes of Introverted iNtuition. In such cases, an INFJ may show some or all of the following weaknesses in varying degrees:

 

[Carebear]

Question for you kiddo... what is a "typical" INFJ? I thought the first rule for us is always being unique.

There's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have a developed Ti.

And there's really no reason why INFJs couldn't have poorly developed Ti. Most lie somewhere in the middle, so an INFJ with well developed Ti wouldn't be typical. Still INFJ though.

 

[redacted]

Ah, well if you have developed Ti, then that doesn't make you the typical INFJ does it? The typical INFJ is stubborn, unyielding, relentless, moody, and seeks the best possible framework of principles for interacting with the outside world.

well i was just responding to this:

I just don't see what you are basing your belief that you are INFJ on.

i never said i was the typical INFJ. my point was more that i'm an exception to a lot of the "rules" you state, which means they're not good rules.

but yeah, i'm overall looking for a philosophical truth (which i've long since found and been satisfied by).

but in the short term, i look for logically consistent explanations for everything that crosses my threshold of what i deem important. everything. Ni does a lot of the work -- comparing new data to past pattern structures. but Ti does all the deductive work. Ni then checks Ti's work to see if it can fit with other patterns, if not, it changes around some assumptions and gives them back to Ti. my mind is satisfied when BOTH Ni and Ti are satisfied -- in other words, when something is logical AND fits perfectly into other patterns.

my impersonal analysis stuff only takes me so far, though. i'm completely reliant on people. this is where Fe is important. when i'm around people i'm comfortable with, Ni/Fe/Ti all work together to paint a picture of exactly what they're thinking and which assumptions they have. i challenge myself to see how far i can go with little body language hints, choices of wording, etc. it's a much better and more fulfilling puzzle than math or physics or computer science (although those are fun too). and it's nice for my friends because they don't have to constantly explain things to me.

i'm 90% sure i'm gonna be a therapist.

 

[Kiddo]

I think where I am having issues with your explanation is in how you claim to utilize Ni.

Ni does a lot of the work -- comparing new data to past pattern structures

That is what Ne does, not what Ni does. INFJs are called the foreseers because we utilize Ni to predict what will happen with patterns, not comparing data to past patterns. It is Ne that takes new data and interprets it.