Incels.

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So, what do people make of the whole phenomenon? Here's a video on the topic as a starting point.

 

[ceecee]

^^ This is one of Natalie's best.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Incels should stop worrying and start visiting prostitutes. Then they can have the sex they desire and the girl will at least pretend to care. Then they can get out of incel world and understand life a bit.

Incels have made themselves into victims and the internet and social media is a huge factor.

I know short ugly fat guys that have had great success with beautiful young women. How? They had money and flaunted it. Amazing that looks never stopped them from banging hot girls 20 to 30 years younger.....

As to video, the many comparisons made in the video between incels and transgenderism are interesting.

 

[Pionart]

Incels should stop worrying and start visiting prostitutes.

Incels should overcome the sinful desire for non-marital sex.

 

[Maou]

So, what do people make of the whole phenomenon? Here's a video on the topic as a starting point.

Can you provide your own commentary on points in the video, instead of just posting the video?

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Incels should overcome the sinful desire for non-marital sex.

Sure. But we live in a fallen and highly sexualized world. Through most of history, young men have had sex with prostitutes prior to marriage. In most of history, only prostitutes were available for young men. And even in Puritan colonial New England, most weddings occurred less than 9 months from the birth of the first child.

Young men have a desire for sex. Sinful or not, it is what it is. Also, some Bible scholars have argued that only adultery is banned under Bibical prohibitions and that unmarried fornication is not.

In any event, helping young men channel their sexual energy into becoming productive members of society instead of sitting in their mamas' basement watching porn and complaining on the internet would be a good thing.

Incels are fundementally flawed in their thinking. As noted in the video, PUAs share the same criticisms of women as incels, but have lots of sex, or so they allege. Therefore, incels should just adopt PUA tactics instead of shooting people.

 

[Pionart]

Sure. But we live in a fallen and highly sexualized world. Through most of history, young men have had sex with prostitutes prior to marriage. In most of history, only prostitutes were available for young men. And even in Puritan colonial New England, most weddings occurred less than 9 months from the birth of the first child.

Young men have a desire for sex. Sinful or not, it is what it is. Also, some Bible scholars have argued that only adultery is banned under Bibical prohibitions and that unmarried fornication is not.

In any event, helping young men channel their sexual energy into becoming productive members of society instead of sitting in their mamas' basement watching porn and complaining on the internet would be a good thing.

Incels are fundementally flawed in their thinking. As noted in the video, PUAs share the same criticisms of women as incels, but have lots of sex, or so they allege. Therefore, incels should just adopt PUA tactics instead of shooting people.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do... unless there's a better way, which there is. Succumbing to desire out of a defeatist attitude of "it's there, may as well give in" is a recipe for suffering, and life is born from the choice to strive towards higher forms, to let ideals not lust and death rule one's life. It is from the ashes of society's collapse that nobility will be born out of light, and darkness is not to be accepted. There is one way, the true way. Stepping to the side to step aside from responsibility bears the responsibility of that which it births; destruction becomes who destroys. Life is for the living.

 

[Luminous]

The idea that sexuality is inherently sinful without the human invented idea of marriage is just as harmful as any of the other issues here.

What's wrong with sex? If it's consensual between adults? It can be animalistic, sure, but it can also be spiritual in its own way. Why should we not enjoy ourselves while we're alive?

The answer is certainly not to tell them how sinful and awful they are for giving in to their evil urges, when those urges are normal and not evil. They're just human.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do... unless there's a better way, which there is. Succumbing to desire out of a defeatist attitude of "it's there, may as well give in" is a recipe for suffering, and life is born from the choice to strive towards higher forms, to let ideals not lust and death rule one's life. It is from the ashes of society's collapse that nobility will be born out of light, and darkness is not to be accepted. There is one way, the true way. Stepping to the side to step aside from responsibility bears the responsibility of that which it births; destruction becomes who destroys. Life is for the living.

Again, we are discussing a group that has severe mental blinders, in a wicked society. For those already incels, the cure isn't voluntary celibacy. They need psychological help, but that will do little compared to acting like 90% of all men in the history of the world (give or take).

Once they have sex, they can start healing from their psychological prison. And paying a prostitute is a better route than going on tinder and being rejected 2000 times.

Of course, self mastery is better, but this group is already delusional. The idiot in Santa Barbara likely could have gotten laid if he lowered his standards and didn't obsess with one girl. Instead, he killed and died. Being a fornicator is less dangerous to his soul than being a murderer.

 

[Pionart]

Being a fornicator is less dangerous to his soul than being a murderer.

Perhaps so, but it's a false dichotomy. Sinning rather than sinning is still a sin compared to doing what one can to do better.

I don't buy that the approach you've proposed is the only way, by a long shot. Whether it would work at all is something I doubt.

(though I do get the concept of a "last hurrah")

 

[Pionart]

The idea that sexuality is inherently sinful without the human invented idea of marriage is just as harmful as any of the other issues here.

What's wrong with sex? If it's consensual between adults? It can be animalistic, sure, but it can also be spiritual in its own way. Why should we not enjoy ourselves while we're alive?

The answer is certainly not to tell them how sinful and awful they are for giving in to their evil urges, when those urges are normal and not evil. They're just human.

You're welcome to pursue the idea you believe to be correct, and truth will shine forth in the end.

 

[Luminous]

You're welcome to pursue the idea you believe to be correct, and truth will shine forth in the end.

Lol yes, I won't have to suffer with guilt and shame for experiencing completely normal human feelings.

 

[Pionart]

Lol yes, I won't have to suffer with guilt and shame for experiencing completely normal human feelings.

Experiencing, or acting on and creating? I said nothing of experiencing.

--

"It is not what goes into one, but what comes out of one that makes one impure." (paraphrase)

 

[Luminous]

Experiencing, or acting on and creating? I said nothing of experiencing.

--

"It is not what goes into one, but what comes out of one that makes one impure." (paraphrase)

I don't think there's impurity in sharing pleasure with other consenting humans. Especially if there's love, care, and tenderness involved? What's more pure than that? Why should a marriage certificate be all the difference?

We're not going to agree, clearly.

 

[Pionart]

I don't think there's impurity in sharing pleasure with other consenting humans. Especially if there's love, care, and tenderness involved? What's more pure than that? Why should a marriage certificate be all the difference?

We're not going to agree, clearly.

As I implied, much comes down to your personal beliefs on the matter. Is it something you feel to be right? Then how could I argue? Yet if your intention is flawed from the beginning, it's a different matter. I can say what I believe on the matter, as it feels right for me to do so. But do I know all? Of course not, and I could be mistaken. Yet I share what I wish, given it feels to me to be valuable, in a righteous sense.

I can speak from my experiences, but what if your experiences differ on the important points, and you're being honest about it? What could I say?

 

[Luminous]

As I implied, much comes down to your personal beliefs on the matter. Is it something you feel to be right? Then how could I argue? Yet if your intention is flawed from the beginning, it's a different matter. I can say what I believe on the matter, as it feels right for me to do so. But do I know all? Of course not, and I could be mistaken. Yet I share what I wish, given it feels to me to be valuable, in a righteous sense.

I can speak from my experiences, but what if your experiences differ on the important points, and you're being honest about it? What could I say?

Indeed. And I hold dear the freedom for people to choose what values and beliefs to live by.

But I hate people suffering with shame and guilt over something that isn't necessarily unhealthy. And adding shame and guilt on top of other issues doesn't seem like a healthy way to deal with those other issues.

 

[Pionart]

Indeed. And I hold dear the freedom for people to choose what values and beliefs to live by.

But I hate people suffering with shame and guilt over something that isn't necessarily unhealthy. And adding shame and guilt on top of other issues doesn't seem like a healthy way to deal with those other issues.

There is such thing as false shame and guilt, and I will admit that religion can be responsible for it a lot. But there is also proper shame and guilt. It depends on the nature of what shame/guilt is felt over.

 

[Cellmold]

I don't think sex is sinful, I'm just inherently terrified of it. As I am of all physical activity that involves a public demonstration of ability.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I don’t believe in some “enforced monogamy” like JP advocates. The answer is legal, well regulated brothels and sex dolls. In countries like Netherlands, don’t they have legal brothels on the basis that sexual fulfillment is a need for everyone, even the undesirable? I’ve read that some sex workers specialize in servicing the disabled so surely some might be willing to service incredibly low value men (and women). I don’t think the state should “issue wives” or whatever the incels are saying, because that would not really mean positive sexual fulfillment for those women being forced into relationships. So next best solution is legal sex workers willing to relieve those guys’ sexual tensions for money. Men need sex or they will become angry and resentful little beings.

I’m in a situation where my wife has very low libido due to medical issues. I can’t even remember the last time we fooled around, but I can probably count on one hand the average number of lays I’ve had in the last 3 years, so I’m thinking about asking if I can get some strange on the side, possibly from an escort service. Cheating isn’t really something I like to think about but I have a somewhat high libido and feel myself becoming more irritable and depressed the longer I go without sex. So while the tone and message of incels isn’t really something I agree with, I can sympathize with them on some level. The difference, and maybe I’m bragging here, is I could easily get some elsewhere if I actually wanted to. It’s just not in line with my personal ethics.

I realize some of these guys also need companionship, but with legal brothels, perhaps they could get the sex, then look for meaningful platonic companionship elsewhere

 

[Maou]

I am going to have a widely different opinion on sex, because I am an asexual.

I think there are societal benefits due to involuntary, or voluntary celibacy. Sexual energy can be transformed into passion for work and study. Many great minds, who changed the world, also had trouble finding love. (It is just much harder to find that work today.) Religion too, espouses the happiness that blossoms from finding alternative means of pleasure in daily life, and not the engagement of sex. They view it as an "animalistic act", and what separates humans from animals is the ability to discipline ourselves. That only when we stop being animalistic, can we truly actualize as higher beings. Delayed gratification makes a lot of difference in one's happiness too. Too much of a "good" thing, is bad. I've seen many talk about they key to higher thought is abstinence in both philosophy, and religion. So I think there is some truth to it. I do agree sex is a normal and healthy thing, but I also think it shouldn't be indulged in extensively.