I might've just had a near-death experience

[StonedPhilosopher]

I originally posted this in this thread, but I felt that it was in the wrong category.

A couple days ago, I was impatiently waiting for a crosswalk sign to change to the pedestrian symbol, and because I didn't see any cars I figured I could just run across the (wide) road. I saw a car about a second or two before it hit me, giving me enough time to see what was about to happen and think I was about to die but not enough time to get out of the way. Here are my unrefined thoughts I punched into Notepad the day after, right before before I looked it up:

I saw the car about a second before it hit me. During then, I was freaked out a little but reluctantly accepted that I was going to die. Right when it hit me, I imagined something akin to that peaceful "game" that was made by those guys who made Thomas was Alone IIRC. At least, it was similar enough for me to think of it. To be somewhat more specific, I think I saw a forest, meadow, or both. I think I first saw the meadow and then the forest. Or was it the other way around? Anyway, I then slowly realized I was tumbling and bouncing off the concrete, and gradually came back to my (painful) senses. When I finally stopped tumbling, I nearly completely felt my body again. During the vision, I didn't feel my body; it was like a dream, and so was the tumbling. I was in a sorta neutral mood, slightly happy that I was leaving this shitty world, kinda sad too, but I didn't completely think it through. I basically really shallowly and indifferently thought "oh shit it kinda sucks that I'm dead I think wait I see this shit that's kinda nice I guess and maybe this is better" with the "maybe this is better" being the last thing and very brief. The vision lasted about a second or two, and I was still thinking of it as I came back to my senses. It was mostly just hard to comprehend what the fuck was going on, mostly due to the fact that it was reality. The meadow and tree(s) were very vibrant.

Note: I forgot to specify that I thought I was thinking of the game. I looked it up and found that it's called Proteus. I think it was also a little similar to Minecraft, but idk.

After looking up stuff, I added this sentence below:

After I read a tiny bit: I think I saw mostly black, with the visions being flashes and them being sorta "windowed" in the black, like looking at the end of a tunnel. This may not be true, though.

And then a little later, after I remembered another detail or two:

I didn't mention this before, but I wasn't influenced by other stuff: I felt like I didn't have a body, and felt like I was floating. I also remember seeing blue, like maybe the sky, before the other stuff.

I forgot about it shortly after getting up off the street and running to the sidewalk while yelling stuff along the lines of "HOLY SHIT!!!!!! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHAT THE FUUUUCK!!!!" and some bystanders rushing over and asking if I was alright. I was in the hospital for around five hours and got an ultrasound, CAT scan, and x-rays and they didn't find anything broken; all I got were nasty scrapes and some sprained stuff. They didn't find anything wrong with my head besides a really minor bump on the back (from hitting the asphalt). I remembered what I thought the next day and then thought there might be something deeper than randomly thinking of a video game.

Everything I've seen online is totally different. The only way I feel different is that my body is really sore now, and I sorta feel sick, which is obviously only temporary. I'm still afraid of death and don't feel any more charitable or anything. Nor did my mind/mood change when I "experienced" that stuff; it was a seamless transition from standing in the road and to skidding on it right after. My mood didn't swing to any extreme; just stayed the way it was. And no one "talked" to me or anything. I was agnostic (because you can't disprove the existence of a God) and still am.

my IQ dropped from child-genius levels to just "smart". Uncomfortable hearing, much?

What the fuck are you serious!?!???? From what to what? By "child-genius," do you mean you were tested as a child and weren't tested again until you were a fully-grown adult, post-NDE? Can you elaborate? What ages did you take IQ tests? What were the results? What did you get on the SAT/ACT, and what year did you take them, if you took them? Fuck, I was planning on retaking the SAT because I know I can/could've beat my current best (1490; 730 verbal 760 math (they changed it back to 1600) 6/5/6 essay (all in one sitting)), but if I got dumber then I'm not only fucked for that, but for life .

 

[burningranger]

I have a spiritual view of life so when I read something like what you wrote and contrast it to expereinces I had in meditation and out of body experiences nothing you said sounds weird at all. I also had a minor car crash once where i felt everything sloooooooooww dowwwwn as I tried to not hit the other car before the impact. The out of body expereince felt like the floating on air you described.

It will be interesting to see how this affects your world view...if at all

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

expereinces I had in meditation and out of body experiences

Wait, what? Can you elaborate?

And I found a post of [MENTION=988]UnitOfPopulation[/MENTION] saying that his IQ was tested at 170 at age 20. You know professional adult IQ tests max out at 160, right?

 

[Mole]

Your near death experience illustrates the rule the map is not the territory, where the map is the traffic lights and the territory is the traffic. Normally the lights are an accurate indicator of the traffic, but sometimes a car is going through the red light, and we see demonstrated for us the rule that the map is not the territory.

And because maps are usually good indicators of the territory, we can forget the first rule of map making: the map is not the territory.

 

[Yuurei]

I dued once. I've been pretty stupid ever since. Yeah, I believe the IQ dropping bit.

As far as changing my world veiw; everything everyone says just sounds like a group pf toddlers bragging about their achievements in pre-school. The more significant and revolutionary they believe their sophmoric realizations are the harder I want to smack them, so, no. No change.
I've felt this since way since I was preschhol age, but then that also the time I was confrinted with my own mortality so maybe it is connected.

 

[Totenkindly]

Glad you're okay.

There was a guy I worked with at my last job -- he was in his late 40's and did the same thing, across four lanes of traffic (his wife was watching but didn't go with him), and he lost out by about 3 feet.... so close to the curb, but no cigar. A car clipped him, he banged his head on the frame and then on the macadam, and that was it. Brain-dead. They turned off life support a day or two later. Head injuries suck.

I remember experiencing moments of time "slowdown" in accidents. Was it really time slowing down, or did everything just become clear -- I was totally focused on the external reality without being in my self-absorbed thinking process inside my own skull? But it's like I just got aware of EVERYTHING around me even though it was only 1-2 seconds of time. Things seem more vibrant, more clear, emblazoned on the mind... kind of like a mild coke trip or something.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

Not sure if I'm just misremembering now, but I might've been discarding the possibility that I was perceiving time slower; didn't think about the fact that I would've fully landed in less than a second, yet still thought it couldn't have been that long. Also wasn't thinking of the correct duration of seconds.

To account for this: the experience lasted for at least 3 seconds, another 2 or 3 transitioning back to reality, and 1 just being in reality skidding on the concrete.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

I dued once. I've been pretty stupid ever since. Yeah, I believe the IQ dropping bit.

Ignoring the underlined irony(?), are you being serious or not? Do you mean "stupid" as in not completely thinking something through, or actually unable to comprehend complex theories, recognize patterns, etc? I already pointed out that the first guy said his IQ was "tested" at 170 at age 20, which is impossible on a professional test. He apparently then "only" got 140 at age 30--ten years later--so idk.

I was getting back to reading a book for SAT Chemistry and was still getting all of the concepts before they were explained, so I guess I'm not that badly affected.

Let's see how I fare on the ACT a couple weeks from now. I got a 30 in June, the first time I took it; 34 English, 31 Math, 26 Reading (had to randomly guess for the entire last passage due to running out of time), 30 Science. Didn't study at all for it since then, so it'll be a fair comparison I guess

 

[Yuurei]

Ignoring the underlined irony(?), are you being serious or not? Do you mean "stupid" as in not completely thinking something through, or actually unable to comprehend complex theories, recognize patterns, etc? I already pointed out that the first guy said his IQ was "tested" at 170 at age 20, which is impossible on a professional test. He apparently then "only" got 140 at age 30--ten years later--so idk.

I was getting back to reading a book for SAT Chemistry and was still getting all of the concepts before they were explained, so I guess I'm not that badly affected.

Let's see how I fare on the ACT a couple weeks from now. I got a 30 in June, the first time I took it; 34 English, 31 Math, 26 Reading (had to randomly guess for the entire last passage due to running out of time), 30 Science. Didn't study at all for it since then, so it'll be a fair comparison I guess

For the billionth time that is a typo not a misspelling. My spelling and grammar are fine, my typing skills suck.

Just...slower. I'm not as quick-witted as I used to be. Also I forget basic vocabulary often. I know the word but when I want to use it, it just sort of....disappears, like a blank spot in my mind.

As for IQ-I honestly don't care. It really has very little to do with actual intelligence and I put no value in it.

 

[burningranger]

Wait, what? Can you elaborate?

And I found a post of [MENTION=988]UnitOfPopulation[/MENTION] saying that his IQ was tested at 170 at age 20. You know professional adult IQ tests max out at 160, right?

I'm very fuzzy when it comes to recalling specific experiences and even fuzzier conveying them in words....call it inferior Si if you will. Yeah I had and out of body experience. It's like I was floating above my body with a sense of freedom....but actually I just SAW I wasn't my body in the first place...just a vehicle for my soul. And the soul isn't whatever curlturally charged and loaded definition comes to mind...you can use another word if you wish....but a recognition of the essential non-physicality of what you call YOU. I felt like I was the observer to the room I was in as much I was to my body. So by contrast, the "normal" state of being in the body....feels...welll.....like you are mostly centered and focused and observing things FROM your body....as oppposed to,...well, out of it

It's not as complex as it sounds. It's like zooming out. Because we are still a bunch of retards for the most part most people will throw in a lot of mysticism around it....but really it's fairly obvious - if you were the only man on earth and had to be the only one investigating reality...you'd very quickly see...that assuming you are your body (and then comes the question ...well if I am the body which part?am I my leg?) makes as much sense as thinking you are one of the thoughts floating around your mind. Obviously if you define yourself as the one common denominator/subjective experiencer of all your experiences...I mean, what makes you, YOU?......then you can't be anything you can observe. So not the body, not the thoughts, not the feelings...none of the weather patterns of consciousness....obviously you are not the name assigned to you by your mommy....so as you start looking for this illusive ME.......who is aware of all these things? Not who is thinking about it all....who is AWARE of even the process of thinking and the voice in your head? Who is the experiencer of everything?

It's only once you INTRODUCE the subtle but powerful assumption that consciousness is an epiphenomenon of the brain (that is....you being aware is a product of the brain) that people start realating everything that happens to a supposed box inside your head responsible of everything. Oh I see because the light reflects off of objects and hits the eye and that translates things to the brain.....bla bla bla.......er, NO......trace all the steps back. Remember you are investigating reality for the first time. Looking for truth...you throw away ALL assumptions. Even the basic assumption that there's a world out there OUTSIDE of your direct experience....cause you see...that's just another thought the voice inside your head is having that CANNOT be verified via direct experience. And if you can't verify something via direct experience.....why believe in what the resrt of your monkey tribe running around the place is saying?


But in DIRECT EXPERIENCE no sane man would make that direct leap. If you were the only one to verify you personal experience you'd be a fool to think any one part of your body as the ORIGIN of consciousness. Even the brain. I mean look for this thing called a brain in your direct experience.....it's a word in your head.


This is where what we traditionally call science has, for the most part, failed miserably. We bumped into the observer's effect and it seems for most it made us none the wiser. Wait you mean I'm influencing what I'm measuring??! And I'm just gonna NOT investigate my model of studying reality and teh basic assumptions upon which my science is based on? Wasn't this about objectivity? Reproducable results? What about subjectivity? How can we have any notion of what is objective if we don't understand how the biggest tool we use for all of this (our minds) works? And wait a minute....why do we even all assume a materialist view of the world....hmmm if I go back it wasn't always like that....even coming from very prominent scientists.

Cause you see this strict materialism is like saying...well only what I consider to be solid is real in the world. But the definition is completely biased because we define solid in terms of what only FIVE of our senses are attuned to. Our how we define them as being attuned to anyway. So like....okay in that world view...what is a thought then? Like if we are defining an object by what your eye can see....or what is observable stricly based on what you can hear or touch....okay....that what about the things you have? The dreams? Imagination) Where is that all happening? Are you not SEEING those things in your direct experience? Are they less real than the chair your sitting on? Why? Based on what definition? Whatever THAT definition is...have you questioned it? Isn't science all about questioning and needing proof for things? Then take it all the day through....how are you proving that assumption you just made?



Which is not to say that science when done by humbly open minded people isn't an incredible tool. I'm all for it. But it has been twisted and severely limited by predicating on very arbitrary and oldschool ideas of reality. I mean at one point it was the heart which was considered the nexus of consciousness for us and not the brain...you see how it's all just a byproduct of the culture?

Anyway, I think i remember a second out of body experience when I took MDMA in a trance festival....but I can't be sure. MDMA is what is often called ecstasy...it's psychoactive but not allucinatory.....but back then it was my gateway into the really big questions...cause here was this substance....which didn't ADD anything to your blood strream....but whose only effect was produced by actually turning ONE part of the brain off....which is responsible for ...i'm not sure i can describe it accurately but basically making sure you are always safe....mindful of your surroundings and also analyzing everyone's words and stuff.......so when you take it....that is off....and you become naturally more trusting and open......but you retain all your faculties.....and that's when i experienced the biggest bliss and LOOOOVE for everyone in my life....and that made me question....okay motherfuckers.....this LOVE ...this maazing feeling is possible in a human body???!!!!And it's not some chemical...but a natural byproduct of a type of perception? Which, btw, is more natural and unfiltered than the one offered my by that nagging voice constantly yapping in my head that I always believe for whatever reason??? Then all that fulfillment I projected for years externally is COMING FROM MY BODY (or at least that's how I phrase....you see, I was taking the classical approach based on the cultural assumptions we all make) ...then I'm fucking enpowered!!! If i can reproduce this without the drug....that is switch that anxious part of my mind off that is always alerting me to danger n shit.......i can be blissed out all the time......so that led me to finding meditation. And then I started having all these amazing experiences and realizations like the ones i talked about earlier.

I mean if I'm the same guy I was when i was 5...and all of my body as recycled a milliong times are you going to seriously try to convince me, that what makes ME essentially me is a product of one of the changing elements in my experience? GTFO

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

An essay

So, from what I gathered from skimming:

• one sentence about your out-of-body experience
• you are your soul, not your body (I believe the same thing (or that you're just a brain))
• science/people fail to account for unexperienced phenomena
• other rambling stuff
• recollection of a second out-of-body experience, your experience not being an effect on your brain but your soul, and that made you take up meditation

Uhh, okay. By "elaborate," I just wanted a description of the out-of-body experience you mentioned, including the circumstances and stuff. I'm not completely taking either side of the soul vs. brain argument.

 

[burningranger]

Well I told you I'm very fuzzy recording particular experiences in detail. I have often to arrive to them via my Ne. I only remembered the second experience (the one with MDMA) as I was writing, had even completely forgotten it.

But you could say the first one happened round about the time I was having all that happening in my prespective I was talking about. Investigating life and meditating and obeserving myself. I got the out of body experience BECAUSE I was eager to investigate what was my essential nature as awareness. The MDMA one was actually prior to that, but I had forgotten about it. Nothing too different....just the zooming out and a sense of freedom. A merging with my surroundings. I forget a lot of the weirder stuff that happens with me...and then years later some minor thing has me reflect upon something and it triggers the rememberance. But that's also because it's not something very important or relevant for me, so it doesn't stand out as much as perhaps someone with a different worldview.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I dued once. I've been pretty stupid ever since. Yeah, I believe the IQ dropping bit.

As far as changing my world veiw; everything everyone says just sounds like a group pf toddlers bragging about their achievements in pre-school. The more significant and revolutionary they believe their sophmoric realizations are the harder I want to smack them, so, no. No change.
I've felt this since way since I was preschhol age, but then that also the time I was confrinted with my own mortality so maybe it is connected.

I'm inclined to give you the credibility in this thread. I think the OP is describing a normal reaction (shock, disassociation) to a traumatic event. If we are talking NDE and intellect diminishing in a solid sense - it's called brain damage and that can be tested.

Let's not overlook "foggy thinking" and inability to concentrate are symptoms of being exposed to a traumatic event. I guess that could make someone feel stupid but it's quite natural for going through something like that.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I've experienced both intense slowdown during a car accident, and in a separate incident acceptance and even comfort or at least neutrality in the face of what I thought was impending death. I've never had visions flash before my eyes though.

It's an odd moment to realize that you aren't afraid of death though.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

It's an odd moment to realize that you aren't afraid of death though.

A moment I still have yet to experience.

 

[Cellmold]

I've experienced both intense slowdown during a car accident, and in a separate incident acceptance and even comfort or at least neutrality in the face of what I thought was impending death. I've never had visions flash before my eyes though.

It's an odd moment to realize that you aren't afraid of death though.

The process of dying on the other (skeletal? Rotting? Ghostly?) hand is another matter.

The actual death of an asthma attack that was caused by a respiratory arrest followed by a cardiac one was not a show I was witness to, but the dying moment of thrashing around for breath in my mum's car was.

If moments of dying reveal something about a person, it might depend on the manner of that dying. A sudden cut off leaves little time for more than a very basic sense of quick emotional inputs; desperation, panic, anger, starting to accept & "I hope everyone will be ok with this" which was a weird thought to have, I felt, though the very last micro-seconds were most likely just basic sensory images.

However it's not sequential in the way that my sentence structure makes it sound; a rush of intense impulse firing in all directions is hard to describe. I can hazard that something that you are aware of is coming in a slower way leaves time for a more introspective consideration.

In my case, it hasn't resulted in epiphanic realisations that led me to a more charitable or "live life to the fullest" nature. It just permanently damaged my lungs, may have caused minor brain injury due to oxygen deprivation and left me with occasional pains when I breath in certain ways.

Not that the 'other' to reality stops, which is kind of the point. In that sense it does make me more aware of what I stand and exist in relation to in the world, as opposed to what I stand apart and cut off from.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

What the fuck are you serious!?!???? From what to what? By "child-genius," do you mean you were tested as a child and weren't tested again until you were a fully-grown adult, post-NDE? Can you elaborate? What ages did you take IQ tests? What were the results? What did you get on the SAT/ACT, and what year did you take them, if you took them? Fuck, I was planning on retaking the SAT because I know I can/could've beat my current best (1490; 730 verbal 760 math (they changed it back to 1600) 6/5/6 essay (all in one sitting)), but if I got dumber then I'm not only fucked for that, but for life .

As a part of course in study of information, our teacher directed us to some online assesments of IQ she thought valid. So I took one of them. I followed the guideline, took it alone, didn't look up the answers before. The result 170 came with a statement that the score was extrapolated, as in, it was not completely supported by statistical evidence as results above 160 were rare.

I took some similar assessments after and they told a similar story.

After pneumonia, I took similar assessments, including an official one. They centered around 150 or so.

Before I took it for granted I could finish my studies with ease and get a doctoral degree, but my ability to work was so diminished my wishes never came true. 150 is just smart in my books, not genius, IQ wise. I've had to do real work since for anything to count. I can't just rest on my laurels so to speak. Yeah, it would definitely be nice to have +20 IQ but this is where it stays.

I don't know what std you use in America but these tests had std, standard deviation of 24. So, 170 meant slightly below 3 deviations above average.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

As a part of course in study of information, our teacher directed us to some online assesments of IQ she thought valid. So I took one of them. I followed the guideline, took it alone, didn't look up the answers before. The result 170 came with a statement that the score was extrapolated, as in, it was not completely supported by statistical evidence as results above 160 were rare.

I took some similar assessments after and they told a similar story.

After pneumonia, I took similar assessments, including an official one. They centered around 150 or so.

Before I took it for granted I could finish my studies with ease and get a doctoral degree, but my ability to work was so diminished my wishes never came true. 150 is just smart in my books, not genius, IQ wise. I've had to do real work since for anything to count. I can't just rest on my laurels so to speak. Yeah, it would definitely be nice to have +20 IQ but this is where it stays.

I don't know what std you use in America but these tests had std, standard deviation of 24. So, 170 meant slightly below 3 deviations above average.

First off, America's standard deviation is typically 15. On that scale, your former IQ would be 143.75 and your latter would be 131.25.

But you said the former test was not only online, but also not even fucking completely supported. Only official ones should count.

And regarding your degree, here's a little anecdote:

I'd never had any trouble with math; ever since I was in kindergarten, I understood every concept--and the underlying reasons why they worked--before the teacher explained them. I was in a slightly-above-average (was too lazy to do honors just because) math class in Junior year (11th grade), and I just played Pac-Man on my graphing calculator and still got an A. Homework never took more than five minutes to complete. Whenever I raised my hand in the class, the teacher said stuff like "anyone besides StonedPhilosopher know the answer?" The class covered the stuff right before calculus: function manipulation (including composites and inverses), real/imaginary solutions, polynomial division/factoring, advanced (and circle) trigonometry, and basically everything else up to instantaneous rates of change.

Early last summer--before the incident this thread is about--I took a two-week placement course that covered the extra honors-level material needed for AB Calculus. I figured I didn't have to pay any attention and could just immediately figure out how to do instantaneous rates of change and all that other stuff, but I actually couldn't. For the first time, I had to actually memorize a few formulas; while I basically immediately picked them up, I still had to do "real work" unlike before.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that maybe your ability didn't decrease, but the content's complexity increased.

 

[StonedPhilosopher]

Actually, can you get medically checked for brain damage or something? Wouldn't have they told you if you got mild brain damage from the pneumonia? Or do you live in a third-world country?

Only the pneumonia could cause a drop in IQ; how would a NDE make you dumber? Get checked. I'm actually really curious. It sounds like some shit out of a TV show or tabloid.