I don't see how God could plausibly exist (Christian definition of God)

[Zarathustra]

Are you merely playing or do you indeed believe that?

I think it's an argument that can be made.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

I like this 'hands-off' approach to creation.

 

[Zarathustra]

Interesting to see who this discussion has been comprised of (if we count KDude as an INFP, Marm as ENFP, and Tamske as ENTP [says ESTP right now, but it's said ENTP since I can remember so...]) for the last 60+ posts (i.e., approximately since I got here, and one browser page [I browse at 100 posts per page]):

- 12 NTs
- 2 NFs

- 4 INTJs
- 4 INTPs
- 3 ENTPs
- 1 ENTJ
- 1 ENFP
- 1 INFP

 

[Sniffles]

Yeah sorry, I got bored with the discussion.

 

[Zarathustra]

I just thought it was funny to see three INTJs arguing about God...

 

[Synarch]

God is incomprehensible even as a concept. So, no use in thinking about it. We can however postulate a higher power based on the seeming existence of Ethics.

 

[Lark]

I like this 'hands-off' approach to creation.

I dont believe its hands off so much as God does not create as a human being does, its anthropomorphic and projecting to suggest or expect that he would or does.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

I dont believe its hands off so much as God does not create as a human being does, its anthropomorphic and projecting to suggest or expect that he would or does.

Whatever we cannot explain, we will condem to being absolutely beyond rationalization, while at the same time maintaining that we have all the answers.

Some of us even go so far as to assert, based off of this irrationality, that "projecting" concepts onto god is anthroprocentric and incorrect - even as they project concepts ("I dont believe its hands off so much as God does not create as a human being does, its anthropomorphic and projecting to suggest or expect that he would or does."), so as to fill this horrible logical void...

 

[Rex]

Yeah but wasnt that Satan's error?

God created the angels which where perfect, then mankind, which where different, more perfect, apparently in some respects but less perfect in others and Satan totally had a fit about who was the favourite and mankind was a disappointment anyway because mankind was imperfect? Could be wrong though.

Lucifer was a angel once i was told.

 

[Qlip]

You know, in the original Mythology (Jewish Tradition), Satan is not a fallen angel, just an angel. His job (opposing) is something akin to being a lawyer.

 

[Lark]

Whatever we cannot explain, we will condem to being absolutely beyond rationalization, while at the same time maintaining that we have all the answers.

Some of us even go so far as to assert, based off of this irrationality, that "projecting" concepts onto god is anthroprocentric and incorrect - even as they project concepts ("I dont believe its hands off so much as God does not create as a human being does, its anthropomorphic and projecting to suggest or expect that he would or does."), so as to fill this horrible logical void...

Yeah, who's "we"?

Talk down to me and I'm going to ignore you. Just saying.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Yeah, who's "we"?

Talk down to me and I'm going to ignore you. Just saying.

It wasn't my intention to offend you and I really don't know how you found that offensive.

I was only responding to the irony of your post, as well as others in this thread...

 

[Thalassa]

It wasn't my intention to offend you and I really don't know how you found that offensive.

I was only responding to the irony of your post...

What does it feel like to be an INTJ and having people get offended over what seems like absolutely nothing to you, when your intentions weren't meant to be hurtful or offensive, but simply informative or questioning?

I know this is off topic but I think this is a phenomenon that occurs with INTJs a lot, probably most often with Feelers.

It makes me feel kind of sorry for you guys, though I have been just as guilty on certain occasions of jumping to conclusions about intentions or thinking an INTJ is talking down to me.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

What does it feel like to be an INTJ and having people get offended over what seems like absolutely nothing to you, when your intentions weren't meant to be hurtful or offensive, but simply informative or questioning?

It is a little bit frustrating, at times... Especially if you really enjoy the relationship you have with the other person...

But with everyone else I generally don't care, so long as my point gets across... (They will get over it eventually...)

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

Whatever we cannot explain, we will condem to being absolutely beyond rationalization, while at the same time maintaining that we have all the answers.

Some of us even go so far as to assert, based off of this irrationality, that "projecting" concepts onto god is anthroprocentric and incorrect - even as they project concepts ("I dont believe its hands off so much as God does not create as a human being does, its anthropomorphic and projecting to suggest or expect that he would or does."), so as to fill this horrible logical void...

Is it better then for the sake of being consistent with idea's of skeptical rationality to reject the idea of a prime mover, and as a consequence suffer a reduction in metaphysical belief's?, one were you wallow in obscurity and an infinite number of potential hypothesis as to what would even remotely resemble the truth of our very existence, a position that is horribly stagnant and frustrating? in essence leading to spiritual deteriment and a lack of purpose . Can you really blame people who are trying to rationalize what they cannot conceive?.

I don't have to remind you that it's mans ambition to find security, by attempting to make even the hardest questions answerable. It's obvious that central ideas within Abrahamic religions are designed to providing just that, a sense of security to humans who are incapable of living without answers pointing to convinent variables to an awesome question. However is sinful and in conflict with people who are more discriminating with their critical thinking.

But in the end its really excusable for people who try to justify their beliefs, but what is not really excusable is that "rationalists" even after 3 centuries are unwilling to accept this fact and move on with their qualms.

This is why there is still an ongoing conflict between those who've made a cult out of reason and logic and those who embrace theistic religions.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Is it better then for the sake of being consistent with idea's of skeptical rationality to reject the idea of a prime mover, and as a consequence suffer a reduction in metaphysical belief's?

I think so, yes.

[...]one were you wallow in obscurity and an infinite number of potential hypothesis as to what would even remotely resemble the truth of our very existence, a position that is horribly stagnant and frustrating?

Your mover would be nothing more than some sort of placebo, in this case. It could be that your position is the stagnant one, that also lacks any truths towards our 'existence,' as you put it.

Are you saying that lies are better than truths?

in essence leading to spiritual deteriment and a lack of purpose . Can you really blame people who are trying to rationalize what they cannot conceive?

Nope. But I can certainly say that some people are doing a bad job of rationalizing the subject.

I don't have to remind you that it's mans ambition to find security, by attempting to make even the hardest questions answerable.

This doesn't even make sense.

It's obvious that central ideas within Abrahamic religions are designed to providing just that, a sense of security to humans who are incapable of living without answers pointing to convinent variables to an awesome question.

I wasn't aware that all progress should be stopped in the name of human naïveté. I thought progress was supposed to abolish such things.

But in the end its really excusable for people who try to justify their beliefs, but what is not really excusable is that "rationalists" even after 3 centuries are unwilling to accept this fact and move on with their qualms.

Then... It is excusable to beat a woman in the streets for wearing trousers under her Burka, etc? Mmkay.

This is why there is still an ongoing conflict between those who've made a cult out of reason and logic and those who embrace theistic religions.

Hurp durp.

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

I think so, yes.

alright, but then again you have to remember the rule of relativity.

Your mover would be nothing more than some sort of placebo, in this case. It could be that your position is the stagnant one, that also lacks any truths towards our 'existence,' as you put it.

Are you saying that lies are better than truths?.

I am saying that we are incapable of dismissing either position. Because we have no way of knowing whether either position constitute "truth". For people who are neither able nor have the time, resources or the motivation to devote themselves to disciplines rigorously practiced by skeptic's to pursue an answer to this question, it serves a basic need to retain their beliefs in a prime mover, no matter how absurd or irrational it may sound to atheist's.

Nope. But I can certainly say that some people are doing a bad job of rationalizing the subject.

false consciousness.

I wasn't aware that all progress should be stopped in the name of human naïveté. I thought progress was supposed to abolish such things.

Adding more dimensions to a yet unsolvable question/-/Progress. You and i both know that movements antithetical to abrahamic theology have not come further then theologians to give a clear answer as to what constitutes a final truth.

Then... It is excusable to beat a woman in the streets for wearing trousers under her Burka, etc? Mmkay.

please, don't go off-topic by adressing other issues.

 

[Lark]

So this thread is basically about the problem of evil and the historical anthropomorphic conceptualisation of God?

Just trying to bring things up to date for anyone just entering the tread now and not wanting to read over all the pages and pages of stuff.

 

[Zarathustra]

It always comes down to the problem of evil, doesn't it?

 

[Lark]

It always comes down to the problem of evil, doesn't it?

For some people yeah but its never been an issue when it comes to my belief or doubt in either God or an afterlife.