Humility, confidence, low self-esteem, and arrogance

[ygolo]

If you think they are.

Aren't virtues subjective?

I believe there are (near) universal virtues.

 

[ajblaise]

OK. I see that now.

Are humility, confidence, and modesty all virtues?

Yeah, but humility and modesty are much less virtuous in the US than say, Japan.

 

[Grayscale]

Aren't humility, confidence, and modesty closer to being motivations, than actions?

i wasn't implying that, what i was saying that it is important to note whether the motivation is out of humility, confidence, or modesty, or if it is simply an action, most often simply appearing so.

for example, a truly modest person would simply make no mention of many notable qualities of themselves, change the subject away from those things, etc. however, someone who puts themselves down to induce compliments is not modest in intentions, and thus not virtuous (although as disregard points out, this is subjective)

 

[ygolo]

Yeah, but humility and modesty are much less virtuous in the US than say, Japan.

It does seem like Asian cultures have a preference for humility.

i wasn't implying that, what i was saying that it is important to note whether the motivation is out of humility, confidence, or modesty, or if it is simply an action, most often simply appearing so.

for example, a truly modest person would simply make no mention of many notable qualities of themselves, change the subject away from those things, etc. however, someone who puts themselves down to induce compliments is not modest in intentions, and thus not virtuous (although as disregard points out, this is subjective)

Illussion vs. reality. Understood.

 

[miss fortune]

I'd say that humility and modesty are more easily defined by what is not present, not what is present.

 

[Grayscale]

appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.

 

[disregard]

Indeed, but people are more transparent over time.

 

[miss fortune]

appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - kurt vonnegut, mother night

 

[ygolo]

I'd say that humility and modesty are more easily defined by what is not present, not what is present.

As in the absence of arrogance?

appearance vs reality. however, appearance is all we really have of others.

Appearances can be decieving, but luckily not all apperances decieve.

 

[miss fortune]

As in the absence of arrogance?

why can't we use hubris? it's such an under-utilized term

 

[ygolo]

why can't we use hubris? it's such an under-utilized term

How Promethean of you? OK. The lack of hubris, then?

 

[Grayscale]

Indeed, but people are more transparent over time.

it is hard to say. i would consider myself fairly perceptive, but even i myself know all about "allowing" someone to perceive you incorrectly and i find it really hard to assume anything for certain. people can have many, many layers.


true confidence would be nearly indiscoverable of those who have it... the funny thing is, it doesnt matter, least of all, to them.

 

[yenom]

humilty is having the courage to admit you are wrong when you know you are inaccurate. arrogance is beleiving you are right even when you are wrong. Of course not everyrthing is black and white.

Low self-esteem is believing whatever crap people throws at you even when they make no sense. They are similar yet fundamentally different.

 

[ajblaise]

Indeed, but people are more transparent over time.

True, someone's true self definitely has a way of revealing itself over time. Perhaps a sociopath or just a skilled deceiver could bypass having 'who they are' leak out though.

 

[miss fortune]

How Promethean of you? OK. The lack of hubris, then?

the corresponding virtue to the vice of hubris is humility

 

[ygolo]

it is hard to say. i would concern myself fairly perceptive, but even i myself know all about "allowing" someone to perceive you incorrectly. people can have many, many layers.


true confidence would be nearly indiscoverable of those who have it... the funny thing is, it doesnt matter.

Yes. Should we not concern ourselves with our own confidence and humility rather than others'?

humilty is having the courage to admit you are wrong when you know you are inaccurate. arrogance is beleiving you are right even when you are wrong. Of course not everyrthing is black and white.

Low self-esteem is believing whatever crap people throws at you even when they make no sense. They are similar yet fundamentally different.

What about confidence?

 

[Grayscale]

Yes. Should we not concern ourselves with our own confidence and humility rather than others'?

i am going to shirk how you formed the question here and give my viewpoint--

i say: never lie to yourself. know what you can know and cannot know, and where between those two anything falls. lastly, realize that you are your own life-long companion. after that, how you appear to others, and they to you, is irrelevant.

 

[ygolo]

i am going to shirk how you formed the question here and give my viewpoint--

i say: never lie to yourself, know what you can know and cannot know, and to what degree between those two anything falls into, and realize that you are your own life-long companion. after that, how you appear to others, and they to you, is irrelevant.

Ah yes. It is not about appearing humble or confident. I missed that interpretation of my question.

 

[kiddykat]

What separates confidence from arrogance? Confidence is different from cockiness. which stems from deep rooted insecurities, a need to *prove* oneself to others as a way of public display.

What separates humility from low self-esteem? To have high self-esteem, one must also be humble. To have low self-esteem, again, one has to be arrogant.

How I see it: Arrogance/cockiness serve as a thick jacket for those who feel small inside.

I've met some truly intelligent people who graduated from prestigious schools, were accomplished and held high-paying jobs. But when walking on the streets, one would assume they're just a humble-joe from the hood.

People who are truly at peace with themselves, those who are true to themselves feel no need to get braggadocio.

 

[Anja]

Several here touched on my personal definition of humility. For me it's a balanced view of myself, recognizing both my weaknessess and my strengths and being honest about them with others, neither boasting nor putting myself down. A balance.

Recognizing the truth about myself as clearly as I can and then living it.

I don't know the wellspring of arrogance in others but I know that for me, when I am feeling threatened in some way, I can appear arrogant to others.

Good self-esteem is a tricky one in a social context because many don't seem to understand that feeling good about one's self does not imply that one thinks lesser of them.

That kind of comparative thinking gets us in trouble, I believe.