[MBTI General] How to tell if you're an ISTJ or ISFJ

[tine5]

I'm wondering a good way to tell as I find the descriptions of functions quite confusing. (Don't know if I use more Fe or Te).
Any insight into the differences would be great, thanks.

 

[RaptorWizard]

ISTJ is better with routine details and work and does not take things personally, whereas an ISFJ is more likely to cry due to hurt emotions. ISTJ might be more laid back and leisurely, and ISFJ might be more into following proper moral codes of conduct and service for other people but idk.

 

[Thalassa]

Do you want to manage the objective external environment or people and/or ethics more?

Also its actually pretty easy to tell between Fi and Fe. Have you read Jung or Beebe?

 

[Thalassa]

ISTJ is better with routine details and work and does not take things personally, whereas an ISFJ is more likely to cry due to hurt emotions. ISTJ might be more laid back and leisurely, and ISFJ might be more into following proper moral codes of conduct and service for other people but idk.

i actually agree with a lot of this, though ISTJs can perform acts of service too and ISFJs don't always cry.

 

[tine5]

ISTJ is better with routine details and work and does not take things personally, whereas an ISFJ is more likely to cry due to hurt emotions. ISTJ might be more laid back and leisurely, and ISFJ might be more into following proper moral codes of conduct and service for other people but idk.

So if insulted the ISFJ would openly express emotion rather than going quiet/ignoring the person?

Do you want to manage the objective external environment or people and/or ethics more?

Also its actually pretty easy to tell between Fi and Fe. Have you read Jung or Beebe?

I haven't managed to yet, do you know any good links?

 

[tinker683]

Somewhat serious question: How much do you like hugs?

 

[RaptorWizard]

So if insulted the ISFJ would openly express emotion rather than going quiet/ignoring the person?


I haven't managed to yet, do you know any good links?

ISTJ would probably quietly ignore the person, since they are more solitary than avoidant, and ISFJ might attack because they feel they have been personally assaulted and release emotion. Because of this sensitivity, I would say ISFJ is more avoidant, but the difference is ISFJ probably wants relationships more than ISTJ.

Have you read up on the cognitive functions?

ISFJ:
Dominant: Introverted sensing (Si)Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[13]

[edit] Auxiliary: Extraverted feeling (Fe)Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[14]

[edit] Tertiary: Introverted thinking (Ti)Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[15]

[edit] Inferior: Extraverted intuition (Ne)Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISFJ

ISTJ:
Dominant: Introverted sensing (Si)Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[15] Using Si, ISTJs thrive on deep analysis of their surroundings.[14]

[edit] Auxiliary: Extraverted thinking (Te)Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. [16] ISTJs use this function to actively process and evaluate their perceptions.[14]

[edit] Tertiary: Introverted feeling (Fi)Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.[17] Fi allows ISTJs to turn their analysis to themselves and others, to understand their feelings and the causes thereof.[14]

[edit] Inferior: Extraverted intuition (Ne)Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[18] While ISTJs are capable of rapid and dogged information processing and number crunching, they often have difficulty with, or simply dismiss, abstract concepts without immediate concrete applications.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTJ

Just to add my own tip, ISTJ Te probably is more interested in ordering people and the environment around, and ISFJ Fe is probably more interested in empathy and helping other people.

Hope that helps

 

[tine5]

Somewhat serious question: How much do you like hugs?

I feel uncomfortable with hugs and openly reject them most of the time. I only enjoy hugs if I'm relaxed and with maybe on person and very rarely. I prefer people to offer advice than hug me or say "oh that's terrible!" because that doesn't help in the long run. I only hug if I have to (if it's forced on me as a surprise) or if I feel like it at the time.
I feel intense emotion but don't show it often (I do suffer from depression so it does come out though).

ISTJ would probably quietly ignore the person, since they are more solitary than avoidant, and ISFJ might attack because they feel they have been personally assaulted and release emotion. Because of this sensitivity, I would say ISFJ is more avoidant, but the difference is ISFJ probably wants relationships more than ISTJ.

Have you read up on the cognitive functions?

ISFJ:
Dominant: Introverted sensing (Si)Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[13]

[edit] Auxiliary: Extraverted feeling (Fe)Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[14]

[edit] Tertiary: Introverted thinking (Ti)Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[15]

[edit] Inferior: Extraverted intuition (Ne)Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISFJ

ISTJ:
Dominant: Introverted sensing (Si)Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it. Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.[15] Using Si, ISTJs thrive on deep analysis of their surroundings.[14]

[edit] Auxiliary: Extraverted thinking (Te)Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives. Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence. [16] ISTJs use this function to actively process and evaluate their perceptions.[14]

[edit] Tertiary: Introverted feeling (Fi)Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible. Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity. Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.[17] Fi allows ISTJs to turn their analysis to themselves and others, to understand their feelings and the causes thereof.[14]

[edit] Inferior: Extraverted intuition (Ne)Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings, using “what if” questions to explore alternatives, allowing multiple possibilities to coexist. This imaginative play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to form a new whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[18] While ISTJs are capable of rapid and dogged information processing and number crunching, they often have difficulty with, or simply dismiss, abstract concepts without immediate concrete applications.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTJ

Just to add my own tip, ISTJ Te probably is more interested in ordering people and the environment around, and ISFJ Fe is probably more interested in empathy and helping other people.

Hope that helps

That is helpful thanks! Yeah with conflict I tend to either lash out or withdraw and try and work out what happened (this can be by asking questions about what I did that was wrong and pointing out what they did was wrong etc). I look for gaps/inconsistencies in debates (i.e. if someone says something and I recall they said something differently before then I'll point it out).

Can ISTJs be emotional internally (very intensely) but not show it too much? how would one act if depressed? (more like an Fe user?)

 

[RaptorWizard]

I feel uncomfortable with hugs and openly reject them most of the time. I only enjoy hugs if I'm relaxed and with maybe on person and very rarely. I prefer people to offer advice than hug me or say "oh that's terrible!" because that doesn't help in the long run. I only hug if I have to (if it's forced on me as a surprise) or if I feel like it at the time.
I feel intense emotion but don't show it often (I do suffer from depression so it does come out though).


That is helpful thanks! Yeah with conflict I tend to either lash out or withdraw and try and work out what happened (this can be by asking questions about what I did that was wrong and pointing out what they did was wrong etc). I look for gaps/inconsistencies in debates (i.e. if someone says something and I recall they said something differently before then I'll point it out).

Can ISTJs be emotional internally (very intensely) but not show it too much? how would one act if depressed? (more like an Fe user?)

Talk to this guy. He knows a lot more about this stuff than I do:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/members/uumlau.html

 

[uumlau]

I feel uncomfortable with hugs and openly reject them most of the time. I only enjoy hugs if I'm relaxed and with maybe on person and very rarely. I prefer people to offer advice than hug me or say "oh that's terrible!" because that doesn't help in the long run. I only hug if I have to (if it's forced on me as a surprise) or if I feel like it at the time.
I feel intense emotion but don't show it often (I do suffer from depression so it does come out though).


That is helpful thanks! Yeah with conflict I tend to either lash out or withdraw and try and work out what happened (this can be by asking questions about what I did that was wrong and pointing out what they did was wrong etc). I look for gaps/inconsistencies in debates (i.e. if someone says something and I recall they said something differently before then I'll point it out).

Can ISTJs be emotional internally (very intensely) but not show it too much? how would one act if depressed? (more like an Fe user?)

Yes, ISTJs can be very intensely emotional, keeping it all inside. INTJs are like this, too, but the sources of emotion are less concrete, I would suspect, than for an ISTJ. Fi describes people who can certainly feel feelings, but you ask them to try to put words to their feelings, and they either refuse outright, or find themselves speechless even if they want to answer ... the feelings (good, bad or ugly) are simply indescribable. Fe people are much more capable of talking in terms of feelings and values in an open and "objective" (in the Jungian sense) manner.

 

[tine5]

Yes, ISTJs can be very intensely emotional, keeping it all inside. INTJs are like this, too, but the sources of emotion are less concrete, I would suspect, than for an ISTJ. Fi describes people who can certainly feel feelings, but you ask them to try to put words to their feelings, and they either refuse outright, or find themselves speechless even if they want to answer ... the feelings (good, bad or ugly) are simply indescribable. Fe people are much more capable of talking in terms of feelings and values in an open and "objective" (in the Jungian sense) manner.

That's really helpful, thanks!
I have tons of trouble putting feelings into words, especially really strong ones. I can't name/describe them, they're just there and I term them as 'good' or 'bad' if I'm asked.
Would ISTJ females be more masculine or feminine? (would they try and be feminine because of the social environment or not care?)

 

[Thalassa]

To me you sound very ISTJ. Im sorry I didn't post the links, I can't on my phone. I will later.

 

[uumlau]

That's really helpful, thanks!
I have tons of trouble putting feelings into words, especially really strong ones. I can't name/describe them, they're just there and I term them as 'good' or 'bad' if I'm asked.
Would ISTJ females be more masculine or feminine? (would they try and be feminine because of the social environment or not care?)

You're definitely describing tertiary Fi, I think.

An interesting thing about xSTJ women, and especially ESTJ women, is that they often tend to go for being ultra-feminine. They don't do so in a passive way, but more in the velvet glove over the iron fist sort of way. This is in part, I believe, because Si tends to rely upon cultural archetypes: they react similarly to Fe in terms of cues that might provoke social disapproval or embarrassment. But it isn't the "social cues" so much as not measuring up to the idealized archetype that provokes the reaction, I believe.

A lot of my understanding of Si comes from an ISTJ on another forum, who pointed out that, for example, to Si, a pencil isn't just a pencil, it gets compared to an internalized archetype of a pencil, that a certain brand of pencil is regarded as the epitome of the archetype, because it has just the right kind of eraser, and lead that doesn't break too easily, and wood that is soft and doesn't splinter when sharpened, and so on. Similarly, they will tend to internalize society's concepts of masculine and feminine, and endeavor to live up to them as appropriate.

To compare to INTJ's Ni, there is no "pencil" archetype, but rather an abstract "writing utensil" concept, which covers pens, pencils, mechanical pencils, pens with erasable ink, dry erase markers and a whiteboard ... all the way to computers with printers or any of several NotePad apps that one might use with a smartphone ... to using one's finger to scribble in dust or sand. To Ni, the thought is "I need to write something down" and the mental search is for something that will allow one to do that. Ni types can appreciate the ideal pencil's perfect eraser and ideal lead, but it is very rarely what we look for.

Thus Ni is stereotypically (this is typology, after all!) more likely to break with society's traditions and archetypes than Si, not because we don't recognize their value, but because those archetypes aren't uppermost in our minds as we watch and consider the world.

 

[raz]

This thread seems to either

a) stereotype
b) equate normal human reactions or things outside of personality with personality
c) go into overly detailed and complex explanations of detailed theories with little relation to the world

Seems about par for the course.

 

[uumlau]

Yeah, and then there are those who hide the fact that they don't know what they're talking about by implying that it's everyone else who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[raz]

Yeah, can't stand those people.

This is why I tell people to do their own reading and then start asking other people. Misunderstandings can occur everywhere.

 

[tine5]

You're definitely describing tertiary Fi, I think.

An interesting thing about xSTJ women, and especially ESTJ women, is that they often tend to go for being ultra-feminine. They don't do so in a passive way, but more in the velvet glove over the iron fist sort of way. This is in part, I believe, because Si tends to rely upon cultural archetypes: they react similarly to Fe in terms of cues that might provoke social disapproval or embarrassment. But it isn't the "social cues" so much as not measuring up to the idealized archetype that provokes the reaction, I believe.

A lot of my understanding of Si comes from an ISTJ on another forum, who pointed out that, for example, to Si, a pencil isn't just a pencil, it gets compared to an internalized archetype of a pencil, that a certain brand of pencil is regarded as the epitome of the archetype, because it has just the right kind of eraser, and lead that doesn't break too easily, and wood that is soft and doesn't splinter when sharpened, and so on. Similarly, they will tend to internalize society's concepts of masculine and feminine, and endeavor to live up to them as appropriate.

To compare to INTJ's Ni, there is no "pencil" archetype, but rather an abstract "writing utensil" concept, which covers pens, pencils, mechanical pencils, pens with erasable ink, dry erase markers and a whiteboard ... all the way to computers with printers or any of several NotePad apps that one might use with a smartphone ... to using one's finger to scribble in dust or sand. To Ni, the thought is "I need to write something down" and the mental search is for something that will allow one to do that. Ni types can appreciate the ideal pencil's perfect eraser and ideal lead, but it is very rarely what we look for.

Thus Ni is stereotypically (this is typology, after all!) more likely to break with society's traditions and archetypes than Si, not because we don't recognize their value, but because those archetypes aren't uppermost in our minds as we watch and consider the world.

Thank you, that was very helpful! So with an SiTe user who's female she would conform to social norms (or at least try/want to)? I find I'm also very emotional but can't display it right (I communicate my feelings badly so I come across as angry when I'm sad etc). Is that an ISTJ trait? I read that ISFJs tend to be more emotional, but I wasn't quite sure what that meant really, as in more expressive?
Also, if an ISTJ suffered depression how would they differ? would they be more emotionally expressive/volatile?

 

[Cimarron]

Thank you, that was very helpful! So with an SiTe user who's female she would conform to social norms (or at least try/want to)? I find I'm also very emotional but can't display it right (I communicate my feelings badly so I come across as angry when I'm sad etc). Is that an ISTJ trait?

First question: That depends, it could go either way. Life is complicated. And while ISFJs are often said to be more openly emotional than ISTJs, they're both probably pretty private types...The main difference in that field is what their major concerns are when dealing with people: The balance between/among the people interacting (ISFJ?), or the practicality of the thing being discussed (ISTJ?). Not to mention that those two drives can overlap, too.

Also, if an ISTJ suffered depression how would they differ? would they be more emotionally expressive/volatile?

Yes, I would think so. When I'm really stressed / emotionally disturbed, I feel like a crazy emotional mess. Of course, we always feel more emotional than we look to other people, I have found this time and time again. People say I hold a lot of my emotions back, so they never get any "feedback" on how I feel, just flatlined neutralness. It doesn't feel that way, because I can feel the emotion building up, so I assume others can notice it, too, but maybe I forget the step where I have to express it outwardly. It sure doesn't feel necessary to be more expressive...though maybe it could be beneficial in the end.

 

[Thalassa]

To me you sound very ISTJ. Im sorry I didn't post the links, I can't on my phone. I will later.

Scroll down to the sections where it says things like "the extroverted feeling type" and "the introverted feeling type" and "the extroverted thinking type" and read those individual sections as pertains to finding your own type, for now, since you already know you're ISxJ.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

Then this can help too...on this scroll down to where it says Hero (dominant) and read forward. You'll want to pay special attention to Good Parent (auxillary) and Child (tertiary) to see if you feel more Te/Fi or Fe/Ti...and looking at the shadow can help too.

http://www.erictb.info/archetypes.html

 

[sulfit]

Visually:
For ISFJ see the photos under SEI/ISFp. They often have welcoming, smiley, friendly expressions: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/136-Filatova-portraits-Alpha

For ISTJ see the photos under SLI/ISTp. They look more serious and withdrawn: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/154-Filatova-portraits-Delta