How to handle ENFP volatility/unpredictability

[EG_j]

Everyone in this thread is awesome. idk I was just experiencing some combination of positive feelings yesterday being here...seeing Amargith again, five sounds, etc.
Reading the contributions of some seriously insightful people... These kinds of threads will always be the best of TypoC imo.

Seems like I arranged a family gathering here.
But you're right: You guys are awesome!

EG...I totally agree with [MENTION=8584]SpankyMcFly[/MENTION] that sometimes you just need to say WTF and do it.

Actually this is what I did (without saying WTF), I didn't ask for permission or something like that.

What I am almost certain caused her reaction on the Apple Pie night...is that in her mind... she *thinks* she has already communicated to you that she'll let you know when the time is right to move forward intimately.

I'm almost 100% certain that when she said "I don't kiss on the first date" <-She was under the impression that she communicated a hell of a lot more than "I don't kiss on the first date."
This is one of those phrases that is socially recognized as being packed with meaning and really if not then why would it even exist? it doesn't make much sense when taken entirely literally.
"I don't kiss on the first date." Huh, interesting, well, "I don't take a combination of LSD and shrooms and streak naked across the field of the game he took me to screaming 'I'm God' and then puke in the back seat of his car after he paid to get me out of jail on a first date. On the second date however..."

Feelers may be more sensitive to this kind of statement...
like for a good number of Feelers even if they didn't know the specific reasons why someone said "I don't kiss on the first date" (it means I take things slow)... it would be a signal to be more sensitive regarding initiating intimate/sexual contact. It would be a signal NOT to say WTF and make a move within the first few weeks of knowing her. <-The problem is she thinks you know this when you don't...so you look disrespectful kinda. This is why you got the volatile reaction when you jumped.

Hm, that might be the case. I'm not really good at picking hints and often interpret things differently.
Meanwhile I slowly get an impression of how to behave and how to understand her. I just hope I didn't fail already.
Hilarious example though!

What [MENTION=22064]RedAmazoneFriendZone[/MENTION] says here is valid and it is something you need to be aware of. People do lead others on due to their insecurities with needing attention or love or whatever. It may not be purposeful or evil but that doesn't negate the havoc is causes. Nor should it excuse the behavior.

You are 19/20? Just beginning.

So, you're going to learn some hard lessons inevitably. Just as long as you are honest with yourself? And make conscious decisions and can own them? The better.

You know what she has told you. I think she is in the stage that Red describes. I think you will get your heart broken if you pursue and I would love to see you branch out from focus on just her. But that is my opinion and I was 20 once.

Just do me a favor? [MENTION=29219]EG_j[/MENTION] Don't turn bitter if it goes sour or you get hurt. You are making the decision to go for this girl knowing what she has told you about her flaws.
Just take the lesson from it and apply it to the next one if it doesn't work.

Also, I hope you come around the forum more.

Well, if that is the case, it's a pity and sad and stuff... But then again, I don't want a girlfriend like this.
So I hope this keeps me from getting bitter if she turns out to be like that.
The last time my heart was broken it took a lot of time until I was myself again but I think it won't happen again like that, because I've developed a lot since then.
I'm really amazed by everyone in this thread. Actually I just wanted to get different points of view on this particular case but I already learned a lot from you and would like to become part of this forum to offer my own thoughts whenever I find the time.

 

[EG_j]

Just hopped in at the end. As an INTP that has studied relationships, charisma, and power dynamics dating an ENFP is kind of tricky for an intp, but straightforward once you realize why she's into you.
First off they love you. Your seemingly endless depth as an individual will have them gazing into your soul for hours on end. Very easy to have a strong mental connection.

Sounds like a home match. 8)

What you have to understand is that enfps tend to have exacerbated pretty white girl problems. They went to high school with a bunch of attention seeking daddy's issues little boys and girls all mindlessly chasing status.
And they're some of the flightiest of the bunch. Sound critical?

You're right, that was the impression I got from her stories. But the nice thing about her is that she's (kind of) aware of this.
For examples she said "I don't know why anyone would have liked the old version of me".

So analyze what happens in those scenarios. Plans are made, and plans are canceled. Communications and conversations are started and abruptly halted. She will have learned to fear deep connection as it leaves her delicate little flowery soul oh so vulnerable. Your best bet as an INTP is to put the fuzzy cuffs on her.
Limit your communication to once or twice a day, don't seek connection. Just act as though you're already in a relationship and give her the constant consistent validation that she has never gotten from any other guy before in her life.
Be like her dad. At some point, something will come up in your life, and you'll be like: "She'll love this." And she will. Then just resume normal conversation.

I think this is some really good advice! That's what I'm good at, too. (At least way better than in playing games)
The only thing that sometimes keeps me from doing so is that I don't want to appear needy. But that's probably just insecurity that stems from earlier experiences and I have to get over it.

If she doesn't view you as more intelligent than she is, you might have to game her a little bit. I never bothered learning game, and simply continued developing my intellect, social, and connection skills.

Another important thing. Know how to spot passive aggressiveness. That's when in the middle of a conversation she stops responding, in the middle of a date she doesn't want physical connection, or she misses plans or other dates.
This is all a protection mechanism to slow or stop connection. As much as we all DEEPLY desire to be seen at the deepest level a lot of people have learned to fear it as well. So if she misses a date, just say: "Hey, sorry you had to miss the date, I'll talk to you later."

Oftentimes their subconscious will literally over-ride their thinking logical side.
So they literally didn't make a conscious decision to reneg on an engagement, it's just their 'moodiness', 'depression', or whatever label they want to call it. (if they feel powerless in their life, they'll do this just so they subconsciously get validation that they have control in their lives, yeah it's shitty, but it's what humans do)

Makes sense. In this regard I probably have to be a little more relaxed (even if I just got more relaxed already).
And it matches pretty well with her behaviour (sometimes).

I've just hopped into a relationship with a beautiful crazy enfp girl. She had been creating worse and worse abusive relationships due to her passive aggressive communication style.
After getting pulled into a hugely co-dependent relationship, I INTP'd the shit out of the situation, and now we're good friends that are looking to hook up and share our passions. Good stuff.

Nice to hear, keep going. Good luck with her!
Time to INTP the shit out of my ENFP

OH AND SUPER IMPORTANT! Know what asserting yourself is, when and how you should do it, and why. Practice standing up for yourself. Get good at this, and the INTP can shine in almost any social Situation.

This is something I really have to learn. Except when someone says something illogical and I put on my "BULLSHIT!" facial expression, I sometimes struggle with this.

OH AND ALSO IMPORTANT! Don't worry about getting hurt. Getting hurt is one of the more beneficial life experiences simply because as you feel shitty you learn to jump into each of those feeling states, experiencing them, and plowing through to the next emotion, to the next emotion, to the next emotion. It's intense, and can leave you feeling burnt out but each time you do it, you'll get better and better at processing life's challenges.
It's called building character. Everyone says to do it, but they don't tell you how. So for example if you want to kill yourself, scream "I FUCKING WANT TO DIE". You really can't over do it. (unless well meaning peeps send you to a psych ward). You get past that feeling, and then identify with and jump into the next feeling state. So on and so forth.

You're right. In the past I couldn't handle rejection and getting hurt very well - I blocked it instead of dealing with it actively.
But I guess that's life and if it doesn't work out, I'm convinced that this time, I will emerge stronger from it.

Super interesting take on ENFPs I really appreciate this contribution.

And I think I do know what you're talking about with passive aggression.
I think triple positive outlook ENFPs do present with something that either is or looks a lot like passive aggression but I feel compelled to say here...especially if the OP is going to give this a go
(I've obviously missed some posts here stupid Kindle because I did not know this)... A lot of ENFPs are aggressive aggressive...And I don't get the sense the ENFP in the OP is triple positive outlook.

It would really concern me if every time I spaced out during a conversation or was late my partner wondered what was wrong with me. We are Ne doms....many of us with ADD diagnoses... this happens all the time and means nothing more than what I just said.

Likewise, I personally would not advise someone to change or limit behaviors that would normally come natural to them.
I say this because I truly believe an ENFP is more likely to react poorly to inauthentic behavior and a crimp in the natural flow...than we would to someone being a little overwhelming at times but totally in their moment.
I mean, I realize you are not saying "change who you come across as as you modify your behavior" but this is often what occurs for people as they feel awkward or restrained in some way...And we are hyper sensitive to that.

This is merely what I would suggest.

I don't want her to be inauthentic or to change her. And I despise inauthentic behaviour as well, so I won't be like that either.
In a bad mood I could sometimes be a little passive aggressive as well (in the last time rather less) but until now at least I didn't notice it from her.
But what do you mean by 'triple positive outlook'?

 

[lexiphanic]

I wasn't thinking along these lines but don't think anything I said was in opposition to the above (i should say though that I don't think these are strictly linear pathways that occur in isolation.) Ive noticed if I don't get enough sleep the night before I will be especially distracted the next day. If I was having a wonderful date with my new INTP love interest and made the choice to lose a few hours of sleep instead of end it before I wanted to. But the next day was late to meet him for coffee... Is that passive aggression to you?

The subconscious is always passive aggressive as it's using old patterns and programming to get our wants and needs met. But it isn't out of the ordinary for people to love you for that as well as who you consciously are. So as long as you're not stressing him out with it, he's totally fine. But at the same time, he might get just a little bit annoyed at it which actually does create a tiny bit of neediness binding the two of you together in 'love'. What happens when you move beyond even that is deeper and deeper connection. Because at the heart of it all the subconscious protects us from truly mind-blowingly deep connection.

 

[lexiphanic]

The only thing that sometimes keeps me from doing so is that I don't want to appear needy. But that's probably just insecurity that stems from earlier experiences and I have to get over it.

Super hard to do, but it gets easier with practice, just like anything else. When you text her, call her, are with her ask yourself: Do I need a particular response from her to be happy, or can I just give her unconditional love (giving without expectation of getting anything back). Acting needy is just needing validation from another person to give you worth as an individual. Simple as that. If you don't need validation from others, then basically in every interaction you're putting out that type of loving energy.

Compare this with other guys. She's hot, if I was with her I would have more status. Or, I don't feel good about myself, if she was in my life I would have worth as an individual. If it isn't crystal clear, let me know.

 

[Starry]

I don't want her to be inauthentic or to change her. And I despise inauthentic behaviour as well, so I won't be like that either.
In a bad mood I could sometimes be a little passive aggressive as well (in the last time rather less) but until now at least I didn't notice it from her.
But what do you mean by 'triple positive outlook'?

Hey EG!

Triple Positive Outlook <--Yah, this is an aspect of personality theory pertaining to the enneagram that's kinda more advanced... The enneagram consists of 9 points/types with each type possessing a core fear and then common strategies and coping mechanisms for dealing with that core fear. Three of those nine types (2,7,9) all use strategies that theorists collectively refer to as 'Positive Outlook'. And I'm assuming you could easily guess what many of these strategies are...everything from remaining optimistic and upbeat, to focusing on the future or others as a way to distract yourself from negative feelings, to avoiding conflict with others as a way to maintain a state of harmony.

^^Due to the fact each of us has a core type as well as a tri-type...some people can actually be by way of their tri-type...279 or triple positive outlook. And it is with these guys that I have noticed what looks a heck of a lot like passive aggression but I have my doubts if what is actually occurring in these instances technically qualifies under the clinical definition of passive aggression but...

I feel fairly confident when saying I do not think you need to concern yourself with this as I do not think your ENFP is a 279.

Did you say you were going to move forward with her? I have held back my opinion in this regard because I don't know what IxTPs can and cannot handle and did not want to say something that somehow made me responsible for your pain if this doesn't work out for you...

But I saw the fact she actually has an awareness of her unfortunately common ENFP issues and is doing what she can to do right as a damn good thing and... I like her. I'm usually the first in line in these kind of threads biting my nails. I don't want to hear about the ENFP that is all kinds of wonderful because that's the ENFP that's going to fuck you up. I'm not saying it will be easy for you...but contrary to what many have said (or perhaps hinted at) in this thread...I get a good feeling from her.

Don't change yourself. Don't have a plan. Don't be insecure about your flaws...share them...she's sharing hers. Be open with her...ask don't assume anything about her behavior. And have fun.

 

[violet_crown]

So when she lives up to it, you can't be at all shocked and you can't hold her at all responsible. She is counting on that. She is also counting on you to keep paying for everything and helping her with stuff and basically being at her disposal. You think you're pissed now? Just wait.

This 100%. If someone tells you they're a piece of shit upfront, you need to take them at their word. More people seem to take that as some sort of gauntlet being tossed down as opposed to the big ol' flopping red flag that it is.

I see nothing good happening to the OP if he pursues this.

 

[ceecee]

This 100%. If someone tells you they're a piece of shit upfront, you need to take them at their word. More people seem to take that as some sort of gauntlet being tossed down as opposed to the big ol' flopping red flag that it is.

I see nothing good happening to the OP if he pursues this.

And the plan of "INTP the shit out of my ENFP" made me do one of those snort/laugh combos.

 

[Starry]

The subconscious is always passive aggressive as it's using old patterns and programming to get our wants and needs met. But it isn't out of the ordinary for people to love you for that as well as who you consciously are. So as long as you're not stressing him out with it, he's totally fine. But at the same time, he might get just a little bit annoyed at it which actually does create a tiny bit of neediness binding the two of you together in 'love'. What happens when you move beyond even that is deeper and deeper connection. Because at the heart of it all the subconscious protects us from truly mind-blowingly deep connection.

Whoops I missed this which may have been passive aggressive amiright?

Yah...I really appreciate you expanding on this thank you... but this is one of those things where I just know ill never agree. These are all value based and slightly exasperating to consider because once again I get to hear how the natural features of my personality are fucking up the Western world. It is just a bit odd to me that it be said...that the same stuff that I would be doing if I lived alone on an island with a volleyball...all the stuff I've done since day one of my existence...that I take those things inherent to me that I'd be doing anyway... and use them to simultaneously alleviate/express my aggression in a passive way by being an *inconvenience*. <-Oh how the people close to me would wish it.

I've lived in countries that do not place the same value on schedules...generally Eastern countries where it is believed everything is happening as it should...How do people of those philosophies express aggression passively if "late" is kinda off the table...do the social scientists know?

 

[violet_crown]

And the plan of "INTP the shit out of my ENFP" made me do one of those snort/laugh combos.

"It's just like math, but you're solving for pussy instead of X."

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

[MENTION=29219]EG_j[/MENTION]

I don't have anything too complex or insightful to say, except that I've found that to keep my own sanity in social scenarios that feel asymmetrical, I usually try to make them more balanced. Times I had a crush on someone who seemed to be into multiple people, I would try to spark my own interest in a few people as well. It's too painful to be crushing on someone who is completely distracted by other people. I wouldn't know what else to do than to just create a wider circle of interests myself.

 

[Starry]

This 100%. If someone tells you they're a piece of shit upfront, you need to take them at their word. More people seem to take that as some sort of gauntlet being tossed down as opposed to the big ol' flopping red flag that it is.

I see nothing good happening to the OP if he pursues this.

I keep missing posts on this small tablet (I'm still laughing at this post I saw of yours haha).

I totally, totally, totally with exponential growth agree with what you are saying...like this is one of those things that we need to teach from birth as it applies to all relationships.

I will say this though...And I'm not the first ENFP to say it nor will I be the last...(shit now I do not know how to put this into words umm...)

ENFP 7s or 7 fixes...so basically 99% of the ENFPs...you want to hear them saying those things and if they are accompanied by a little guilt all the better...because it means they've been broken and they are no longer entranced. I swear the game is different here and people can't judge it based on what it would mean if you were saying it.

People should not underestimate what the combination of narcissism and positive outlook can do. We are living the ideal (when entranced) and you will believe it because we believe it...until we destroy your faith in humanity as I've heard an individual say although that was about an ENTP 7 but whatever were just as cool.

The rules change here they really do (although to each their own opinion).


Fuck I can't explain this properly right now. If those things are in the forefront of their minds and they are worried... Fi is engaged and they will now be the ENFP of the descriptions. If they will "never leave you"...you've got until Sunday

 

[violet_crown]

I keep missing posts on this small tablet (I'm still laughing at this post I saw of yours haha).

I totally, totally, totally with exponential growth agree with what you are saying...like this is one of those things that we need to teach from birth as it applies to all relationships.

I will say this though...And I'm not the first ENFP to say it nor will I be the last...(shit now I do not know how to put this into words umm...)

ENFP 7s or 7 fixes...so basically 99% of the ENFPs...you want to hear them saying those things and if they are accompanied by a little guilt all the better...because it means they've been broken and they are no longer entranced. I swear the game is different here and people can't judge it based on what it would mean if you were saying it.

People should not underestimate what the combination of narcissism and positive outlook can do. We are living the ideal (when entranced) and you will believe it because we believe it...until we destroy your faith in humanity as I've heard an individual say although that was about an ENTP 7 but whatever were just as cool.

The rules change here they really do (although to each their own opinion).


Fuck I can't explain this properly right now. If those things are in the forefront of their minds and they are worried... Fi is engaged and they will now be the ENFP of the descriptions. If they will "never leave you"...you've got until Sunday

I have had go rounds with two ENFPs at this point. Both were 7s, I think.

The first one, I felt like there were times where I felt like he was...laying out little emotional breadcrumbs for me to pick up, and I just never responded appropriately. It's hard to describe what I experienced. But there were definite moments where he seemed to be creating a space for reassurance, and I just wasn't able/willing to meet him there. He eventually got tired of my "emotional unavailability" and flounced off.

The second one...I think that I actually liked him more than he liked me. He was interested but on the fence. We went around a few times with him becoming more and more elusive each time, then I finally just said, "This isn't working." He offered to be friends, but I wasn't in a place where I was receptive to it. Whatever we had was very, very brief, but was easily more painful than some of the longer term relationships I'd been in. There were a lot of reasons for this, but I think it was the first time I had been on the receiving end of the ENFP "performance" that I had heard [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] talk about in the past. He didn't know what he wanted and me being as direct as I was was a turn off, which kind of brings me to my larger point.

Commitment terrifies Ne-doms. It seems like death and they flee from it. Physical intimacy also seems to be overwhelming to Ne-doms. I think that's why ITJs and ISTPs do a lot better with them than pretty much anyone else. They stand still long enough for the ENFP to poke around and be content that they're safe. ISTPs give them something to chase without feeling crowded. Anyone else I think it's just luck of the draw.

 

[lexiphanic]

Whoops I missed this which may have been passive aggressive amiright?

Yah...I really appreciate you expanding on this thank you... but this is one of those things where I just know ill never agree. These are all value based and slightly exasperating to consider because once again I get to hear how the natural features of my personality are fucking up the Western world. It is just a bit odd to me that it be said...that the same stuff that I would be doing if I lived alone on an island with a volleyball...all the stuff I've done since day one of my existence...that I take those things inherent to me that I'd be doing anyway... and use them to simultaneously alleviate/express my aggression in a passive way by being an *inconvenience*. <-Oh how the people close to me would wish it.

I've lived in countries that do not place the same value on schedules...generally Eastern countries where it is believed everything is happening as it should...How do people of those philosophies express aggression passively if "late" is kinda off the table...do the social scientists know?

I feel this and I feel that and I can't communicate my feelings through words, so I'll just make this incomprehensible post that somehow refutes your cold robotic INTP logic. I'll throw big words in to let you know that my brain works and you should be impressed, and I'll even throw in some story, because I know you like that shit. But fuck all that....

You said that you would act out your passive aggression alone on an island with a volleyball. Let's kick start that shit and put it on TV. An ENFP creating a dysfunctional relationship with a volleyball would beat literally any other type of comedy. ROFL

 

[Frosty]

I feel this and I feel that and I can't communicate my feelings through words, so I'll just make this incomprehensible post that somehow refutes your cold robotic INTP logic. I'll throw big words in to let you know that my brain works and you should be impressed, and I'll even throw in some story, because I know you like that shit. But fuck all that....

You said that you would act out your passive aggression alone on an island with a volleyball. Let's kick start that shit and put it on TV. An ENFP creating a dysfunctional relationship with a volleyball would beat literally any other type of comedy. ROFL

Had to.

 

[Starry]

I have had go rounds with two ENFPs at this point. Both were 7s, I think.

The first one, I felt like there were times where I felt like he was...laying out little emotional breadcrumbs for me to pick up, and I just never responded appropriately. It's hard to describe what I experienced. But there were definite moments where he seemed to be creating a space for reassurance, and I just wasn't able/willing to meet him there. He eventually got tired of my "emotional unavailability" and flounced off.

The second one...I think that I actually liked him more than he liked me. He was interested but on the fence. We went around a few times with him becoming more and more elusive each time, then I finally just said, "This isn't working." He offered to be friends, but I wasn't in a place where I was receptive to it. Whatever we had was very, very brief, but was easily more painful than some of the longer term relationships I'd been in. There were a lot of reasons for this, but I think it was the first time I had been on the receiving end of the ENFP "performance" that I had heard [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] talk about in the past. He didn't know what he wanted and me being as direct as I was was a turn off, which kind of brings me to my larger point.

I feel grateful for these personal stories but need to confess that aside from being ever so slightly traumatized by the phrase "emotional breadcrumbs" I couldn't understand what either of these two were even doing and why. Which merely makes me wonder if this is something I do ...or used to do but am blind to it. I don't want to obligate you to explain because I know you just popped in for a visit...so yah maybe [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] will shed some light on this for me.

Commitment terrifies Ne-doms. It seems like death and they flee from it. Physical intimacy also seems to be overwhelming to Ne-doms. I think that's why ITJs and ISTPs do a lot better with them than pretty much anyone else. They stand still long enough for the ENFP to poke around and be content that they're safe. ISTPs give them something to chase without feeling crowded. Anyone else I think it's just luck of the draw.

Failing to live up to everyone's expectations since entry into the public school system does have a way of making commitment seem like you're signing yourself up for ongoing criticism. I've never understood this "variety" as it pertains to partners...i devote myself entirely which may be NF idk...but I don't want to invest in something I can't succeed at because what I have to give isn't valued or even a sign of subconscious aggression apparently

I totally think I'm going to be an emotional breadcrumb for Halloween...
I'm going to need [MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] to paper mache that for me

 

[EG_j]

Super hard to do, but it gets easier with practice, just like anything else. When you text her, call her, are with her ask yourself: Do I need a particular response from her to be happy, or can I just give her unconditional love (giving without expectation of getting anything back). Acting needy is just needing validation from another person to give you worth as an individual. Simple as that. If you don't need validation from others, then basically in every interaction you're putting out that type of loving energy.
Compare this with other guys. She's hot, if I was with her I would have more status. Or, I don't feel good about myself, if she was in my life I would have worth as an individual. If it isn't crystal clear, let me know.

I think that's a good approach in general. When I'm with her, I mostly behave that way (except that stupid baking afternoon). The 'neediness' comes in general when I'm not with her and do not see the chance to meet her soon.
(She's always busy and keeps flaking around from time to time.)
In general I'm a person that doesn't give a shit about status and depsises those who do think it's important. Romantic relationship are kind of my Achilles heel though.
If there is some neediness, it's not concerning status but proximity.

Hey EG!
Triple Positive Outlook <--Yah, this is an aspect of personality theory pertaining to the enneagram that's kinda more advanced... The enneagram consists of 9 points/types with each type possessing a core fear and then common strategies and coping mechanisms for dealing with that core fear. Three of those nine types (2,7,9) all use strategies that theorists collectively refer to as 'Positive Outlook'. And I'm assuming you could easily guess what many of these strategies are...
everything from remaining optimistic and upbeat, to focusing on the future or others as a way to distract yourself from negative feelings, to avoiding conflict with others as a way to maintain a state of harmony.^^
Due to the fact each of us has a core type as well as a tri-type...some people can actually be by way of their tri-type...279 or triple positive outlook. And it is with these guys that I have noticed what looks a heck of a lot like passive aggression but I have my doubts if what is actually occurring in these instances technically qualifies under the clinical definition of passive aggression but... I feel fairly confident when saying I do not think you need to concern yourself with this as I do not think your ENFP is a 279.

Very interesting! I've wanted to learn about enneagram stuff but haven't found the time for it so far.

Did you say you were going to move forward with her? I have held back my opinion in this regard because I don't know what IxTPs can and cannot handle and did not want to say something that somehow made me responsible for your pain if this doesn't work out for you...
But I saw the fact she actually has an awareness of her unfortunately common ENFP issues and is doing what she can to do right as a damn good thing and... I like her. I'm usually the first in line in these kind of threads biting my nails. I don't want to hear about the ENFP that is all kinds of wonderful because that's the ENFP that's going to fuck you up. I'm not saying it will be easy for you...but contrary to what many have said (or perhaps hinted at) in this thread...I get a good feeling from her.

I want to move forward with her. But right now she's flaking around just enough to keep me a little bit annoyed and I'm asking myself whether I really want this in the long run. Let's see how this develops.
Well, as for me, I always prefer the truth, as hard as it is.
I really don't know... At the moment I'd say I have to let her alone a few days, at least that's the conclusion I draw from her behaviour. But that can change quickly as well, it's kind of hot/cold at the moment.

Don't change yourself. Don't have a plan. Don't be insecure about your flaws...share them...she's sharing hers. Be open with her...ask don't assume anything about her behavior. And have fun.

Well, those "don't"s may be my personal fail compilation. Except the first one, I don't want to change myself or her.
Also I'm much more secure than I imagined beforehand (even if I maybe do not convey it in this thread). I shared some flaws with her, but rather in a ironical way.
I really want it to be easy and fun and first it was just like that, but now I'm unsure if she even wants to see me again. I fucking hate being flaked.

[MENTION=29219]EG_j[/MENTION] I don't have anything too complex or insightful to say, except that I've found that to keep my own sanity in social scenarios that feel asymmetrical,
I usually try to make them more balanced. Times I had a crush on someone who seemed to be into multiple people, I would try to spark my own interest in a few people as well.
It's too painful to be crushing on someone who is completely distracted by other people. I wouldn't know what else to do than to just create a wider circle of interests myself.

Maybe this is what I have to do. My problem is that I don't want to play with people's feelings (Not just those of the ENFP if there are any, I rather mean the other interests).
Perhaps I'm a little to naive, but I just don't want to cause harm.
After a long dateless time I actually had one with another cute about a week before I met her. But I didn't keep it alive because I felt it was somehow wrong.

I have had go rounds with two ENFPs at this point. Both were 7s, I think.

The first one, I felt like there were times where I felt like he was...
laying out little emotional breadcrumbs for me to pick up, and I just never responded appropriately. It's hard to describe what I experienced. But there were definite moments where he seemed to be creating a space for reassurance,
and I just wasn't able/willing to meet him there. He eventually got tired of my "emotional unavailability" and flounced off.

The second one...I think that I actually liked him more than he liked me. He was interested but on the fence.
We went around a few times with him becoming more and more elusive each time, then I finally just said, "This isn't working." He offered to be friends, but I wasn't in a place where I was receptive to it.
Whatever we had was very, very brief, but was easily more painful than some of the longer term relationships I'd been in. There were a lot of reasons for this,
but I think it was the first time I had been on the receiving end of the ENFP "performance" that I had heard [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] talk about in the past.
He didn't know what he wanted and me being as direct as I was was a turn off, which kind of brings me to my larger point.

Commitment terrifies Ne-doms. It seems like death and they flee from it.
Physical intimacy also seems to be overwhelming to Ne-doms. I think that's why ITJs and ISTPs do a lot better with them than pretty much anyone else.
They stand still long enough for the ENFP to poke around and be content that they're safe. ISTPs give them something to chase without feeling crowded. Anyone else I think it's just luck of the draw.

Hm, the second one kind of sounds like my situation...
I was afraid of commitment for a long time, too. Now I feel like I'm ready for it but she seems to be pretty afraid of it.

-----

I also get the impression that she already takes me for granted after this short time. Is this a usual thing for ENFPs? Or is it a sign that am I messaging her too often?

Edit 1: My colleague (her sister) told me that she has admitted some insecurity to her whether she was politically interested and educated enough for me. I guess that is a good sign but somehow it doesn't fit into the situation in general.
Besides she mentioned she'd love my taste of music (to her sister, not to me directly).

Edit 2: I just noticed that the "paying stuff" statement from my OP is a little mistakable... What I meant was that I pay for our activities like cinema, ice cream and whatever, I'm not her sugar daddy.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Maybe this is what I have to do. My problem is that I don't want to play with people's feelings (Not just those of the ENFP if there are any, I rather mean the other interests).
Perhaps I'm a little to naive, but I just don't want to cause harm.
After a long dateless time I actually had one with another cute about a week before I met her. But I didn't keep it alive because I felt it was somehow wrong.

Oh, I actually don't mean playing games. I mean to remain friends with her if you like, but if she is into a variety of guys, even as friends and/or more, that it can be helpful to your sanity to do the same with girls. I'm talking about genuine connections with other people, not flaunting it as an attempt to make her jealous.

When the connection is uncertain like you describe, it is a way to protect yourself and create enough social interaction that you have other options if this fails, but it allows the possibility of your connection to the ENFP to grow if it's meant to be.

I say this to introverts like myself because it is easy to have too few important people in our lives, so that this imbalance with extroverts is a common problem, especially when dating. You wouldn't have to do too much socializing that's beyond an introvert, but it could be worthwhile to find a least two others women that you genuinely like as friends and possibly more. You may even find someone with the same qualities you like in her, but who is a bit more focused and less likely to play games with people.

 

[Virtual ghost]

She sounds like my ex INFP.

And the plan of "INTP the shit out of my ENFP" made me do one of those snort/laugh combos.

This 100%. If someone tells you they're a piece of shit upfront, you need to take them at their word. More people seem to take that as some sort of gauntlet being tossed down as opposed to the big ol' flopping red flag that it is.

I see nothing good happening to the OP if he pursues this.

I am with the rest of NTJs. This seems like a train wreck waiting to happen.

Dating ENFPs that are not sure what they want out of you or life is pretty good way or getting yourself disappointed or lost. Since with them it is hard to be honest without comming as judgemental ... and therefore the typical "communication option" may not work with them.

 

[violet_crown]

I feel grateful for these personal stories but need to confess that aside from being ever so slightly traumatized by the phrase "emotional breadcrumbs" I couldn't understand what either of these two were even doing and why. Which merely makes me wonder if this is something I do ...or used to do but am blind to it. I don't want to obligate you to explain because I know you just popped in for a visit...so yah maybe [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] will shed some light on this for me.

Re: emotional breadcrumbs. What I was attempting to describe was something that I experienced with him and some other ENFPs where they ask indirect questions or create situations that help them to know where they stand with you and how much you value them.

A made up example would be if I cut a sandwich in half and asked the ENFP to pick a half, and the ENFP turns it around and asks, "Well...which one would you want me to have?" Both of these sandwich halves represents something to the ENFP, and if I give him one, he takes it as "Well she has this half sandwich feelings about me."

If I (in my ignorance) pick the bad omen sandwich half, then the ENFP will start asking follow up questions like, "Are you sure that's the sandwich half you want to give me? Why did you pick that sandwich half? Which sandwich half did you want?" These follow up questions are what I'm describing as "emotional breadcrumbs". The ENFP has an answer he's hoping for and one that he hopes that I understand him well enough and sufficiently value him enough to give him. And when he sees me maybe considering the bad omen sandwich half, he will begin to provide little nudges (or breadcrumbs) to prompt me towards the other choice.

Because I am not a nice person. Although, I could pick up on the emotional subtext, I'd deliberately choose the sandwich half of bad omen just to make it clear that these sorts of games were not the right way to seek validation from me. It takes me some time to express what I feel about anyone. Him rushing the process to feel more secure himself was not fair.

Failing to live up to everyone's expectations since entry into the public school system does have a way of making commitment seem like you're signing yourself up for ongoing criticism. I've never understood this "variety" as it pertains to partners...i devote myself entirely which may be NF idk...but I don't want to invest in something I can't succeed at because what I have to give isn't valued or even a sign of subconscious aggression apparently

People deserve the benefit of the doubt. Everyone has their baggage and has a past so it's natural that we all have things we come into a relationship with.

That said, interest does not equal expectations beyond being honest about whether or not you're also interested. All the conversation around expectation, while I recognize it as valid and painful experience that you had, is self-imposed unless you ask the other party explicitly tells you otherwise.

Hm, the second one kind of sounds like my situation...
I was afraid of commitment for a long time, too. Now I feel like I'm ready for it but she seems to be pretty afraid of it.

Then you saw that it was not a situation that ended well. If and when this turns sideways, remember you are there because of your own choices.

 

[Starry]

I am with the rest of NTJs. This seems like a train wreck waiting to happen.

Dating ENFPs that are not sure what they want out of you or life is pretty good way or getting yourself disappointed or lost. Since with them it is hard to be honest without comming as judgemental ... and therefore the typical "communication option" may not work with them.

You know, I'm on board with the NTJs now too. These two may be fresh out of high school and only met for the very first time a couple of weeks ago...but opportunity to learn and grow?...screw that. Let's take this little hussie to task. The fact she has not offered her undying love and chastity at this point is clearly suspect.

With regards to ENFPs in general...Why is it not considered a legitimate want to want to take things slow and enjoy the journey?