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How to handle ENFP volatility/unpredictability

Amargith

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This. In many regards, I feel pretty mature in comparison to my peers (I'm 20 btw) but when it comes to emotions... Where's my dummy? :cry:

I wonder about the impact of Te on ENFPs as well.


I locked mine away in the basement until i was in my thirties, as I was terrified of what it would do if it got off its chain :ninja:

It's basically a blunt sledge hammer that you have trouble wielding so everyone in the vicinity is at risk while you try to get a hold of that thing. And the impatience it comes with..omg, does that require practice. It's so easy to just slam that thing in frustration :peepwall:

In comparison, Te-users' Te look like an iPhone, while mine looks like one of them crude tools they dig up in archeological digs, basically. Took a while to polish it, aim it properly and appropriately and am currently working on 'upgrading' it into an ancient swiss blade knife-like tool :ninja:

Basic wins the race, basically.

I always felt i needed a superstrong hold on my Fi, so I could really aim without harming too many people nearby, and send out Ne to scout, to see what the collateral damage could be, in order to swing that thing into a new area. Think of it as knowing what you're going to hit before you swing coz changing direction mid-swing will cause mayhem. Si helps to learn its basic properties and get comfortable in fields already scouted, approved with previously successful missions :wink:

That said, I'm probably one of the biggest late bloomers on this forum regarding Te, so other ENFPs like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6166]sculpting[/MENTION] might be able to give you a more typical description of the process.
 

EG_j

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I actually made a reference to this scene after the pie was ready and she didn't like the consistency. :D

She really seems to need more time before cooking with you. If I were in your shoes I'd test her to see how far she could exploit me.

I don't like that whole testing/playing... But what do you mean exactly? Do you mean something like offering my help and checking if she accepts it?

Sometimes we think we have a crush for someone...until we meet someone much more nice and fair. Maybe you like her because she seems contradictory...
Have you found the reasons for those contradictions ? In your shoes I'd be a little bit more direct, have you asked her about her feelings and her intentions since this time ?
You have nothing to lose.

I want to keep a balance between being direct (because it's better, you're right) and not scaring her away (because she seems to be indecisive), but next time I see her (the baking was on Sunday) I'll talk to her about it.

I have dated an ENFP for a long time. I only have one advise : Never run after them. I've realised ENFP are very lovely but a lot into seduction too.
Maybe she just enjoys testing her own seduction/sex-appeal power on you.

Wow, that would be... kind of evil? :huh:
 

EG_j

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I locked mine away in the basement until i was in my thirties, as I was terrified of what it would do if it got off its chain :ninja:

It's basically a blunt sledge hammer that you have trouble wielding so everyone in the vicinity is at risk while you try to get a hold of that thing. And the impatience it comes with..omg, does that require practice. It's so easy to just slam that thing in frustration :peepwall:

In comparison, Te-users' Te look like an iPhone, while mine looks like one of them crude tools they dig up in archeological digs, basically. Took a while to polish it, aim it properly and appropriately and am currently working on 'upgrading' it into an ancient swiss blade knife-like tool :ninja:

Basic wins the race, basically.

I always felt i needed a superstrong hold on my Fi, so I could really aim without harming too many people nearby, and send out Ne to scout, to see what the collateral damage could be, in order to swing that thing into a new area. Think of it as knowing what you're going to hit before you swing coz changing direction mid-swing will cause mayhem. Si helps to learn its basic properties and get comfortable in fields already scouted, approved with previously successful missions :wink:

That said, I'm probably one of the biggest late bloomers on this forum regarding Te, so other ENFPs like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6166]sculpting[/MENTION] might be able to give you a more typical description of the process.

Sounds like I should run for cover. :D
Another question as an INTP who is very well aware of dominant-tertiary Loops (Ti-Si can be a pain in the ass): Is there something like a Ne-Te loop in ENFPs?
 

Betty Blue

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I locked mine away in the basement until i was in my thirties, as I was terrified of what it would do if it got off its chain :ninja:

It's basically a blunt sledge hammer that you have trouble wielding so everyone in the vicinity is at risk while you try to get a hold of that thing. And the impatience it comes with..omg, does that require practice. It's so easy to just slam that thing in frustration :peepwall:

In comparison, Te-users' Te look like an iPhone, while mine looks like one of them crude tools they dig up in archeological digs, basically. Took a while to polish it, aim it properly and appropriately and am currently working on 'upgrading' it into an ancient swiss blade knife-like tool :ninja:

Basic wins the race, basically.

I always felt i needed a superstrong hold on my Fi, so I could really aim without harming too many people nearby, and send out Ne to scout, to see what the collateral damage could be, in order to swing that thing into a new area. Think of it as knowing what you're going to hit before you swing coz changing direction mid-swing will cause mayhem. Si helps to learn its basic properties and get comfortable in fields already scouted, approved with previously successful missions :wink:

That said, I'm probably one of the biggest late bloomers on this forum regarding Te, so other ENFPs like [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION], [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6166]sculpting[/MENTION] might be able to give you a more typical description of the process.


Eh well i'm not convinced on how well developed my Te is... I'm not great at keeping it in check... but I am very practical. Like you my Ne will scope the terrain and look for possible safe target areas. Once that land is felt out with the fi I get to building pretty quickly. I think my Te can be quite ruthless at times... and with the lack of Fe can come across quite brutally. Like in text. Whereas people always think I am 'nicer' when they get to know me in person.

Some golden secret advice here....tread carefully with it

My advice to the op is just dare to be different, be yourself -just avoid being crass... american pie is not the most refined of films. As far as I know most ENFP girls find that stuff pretty juvenile and gross. IMO we prefer things a little more cultured. ENFP love shiny things that move... find her some of that sparkly stuff to follow...and watch the magic unfold. But word of warning... it has to be genuine!


Edit: having read through the whole thread (ish) I have a couple of things to add/ask. Firstly how old are you both?

Secondly I wanted to add that though most people think you are being too desperate and clingy I'm wondering if your lack of expression with how you feel and what you want is confusing her and these things she is saying are really requests for reassurance. It will likely depend on her age though.

I used to say things like this when faced with someone with a cold exterior to try to get some reassurance/response. I suppose what I was looking for was some reassurance and to feel the person out. I was looking for boundaries and expectations. So thats something to consider. ENFPs can actually be rubbish at expressing their feelings when they are afraid of being hurt... and end up in awkward positions due to pushing for a reaction too hard. I do agree though that she does likely have mixed feelings... but well... ohmagosh..... which ENFP doesn't?
 

Amargith

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Sounds like I should run for cover. :D
Another question as an INTP who is very well aware of dominant-tertiary Loops (Ti-Si can be a pain in the ass): Is there something like a Ne-Te loop in ENFPs?

Yup - and it be uuuuuugly.

It's basically Ne greediness combined with ruthless Te acquisition by bulldozing your way to your target.

Think a gigantic Hoover-Bulldozer hybrid with a Masters in Curve Balls.

If you see one coming your way - RUN.
 

EG_j

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My advice to the op is just dare to be different, be yourself -just avoid being crass... american pie is not the most refined of films. As far as I know most ENFP girls find that stuff pretty juvenile and gross. IMO we prefer things a little more cultured. ENFP love shiny things that move... find her some of that sparkly stuff to follow...and watch the magic unfold. But word of warning... it has to be genuine!

Thanks for the tip! But American Pie is nowhere near my favourite movies - It was just a reference. I'm rarely crass, and around her not at all.
I'm very into movies and would claim to have a more refined taste in movies than most peers I know. On our first 'date' for example I showed her Inception which is one of my favourite movies (and should fall into your description, doesn't it?)
So that shouldn't be a Problem. :)
 

EG_j

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Yup - and it be uuuuuugly.

It's basically Ne greediness combined with ruthless Te acquisition by bulldozing your way to your target.

Think a gigantic Hoover-Bulldozer hybrid with a Masters in Curve Balls.

If you see one coming your way - RUN.

*gulp* :shock:
 

EG_j

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Edit: having read through the whole thread (ish) I have a couple of things to add/ask. Firstly how old are you both?

She's 19 and starts her studies in a few weeks.
I'm 20 and just finished my dual studies.

Secondly I wanted to add that though most people think you are being too desperate and clingy I'm wondering if your lack of expression with how you feel and what you want is confusing her and these things she is saying are really requests for reassurance. It will likely depend on her age though.

Yes, this may be depending on our age. Right now it seems like she is confusing me and I'm confusing her. :huh:

I used to say things like this when faced with someone with a cold exterior to try to get some reassurance/response. I suppose what I was looking for was some reassurance and to feel the person out. I was looking for boundaries and expectations. So thats something to consider. ENFPs can actually be rubbish at expressing their feelings when they are afraid of being hurt... and end up in awkward positions due to pushing for a reaction too hard. I do agree though that she does likely have mixed feelings... but well... ohmagosh..... which ENFP doesn't?

Well, she said she doesn't want to hurt me but when I asked she admitted that her feeling a little vulnerable also plays a role.
I don't think she needs more reassurance though, as I made the moves and I'm pretty saccharine to her.
 

SpankyMcFly

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Sounds like I should run for cover. :D
Another question as an INTP who is very well aware of dominant-tertiary Loops (Ti-Si can be a pain in the ass): Is there something like a Ne-Te loop in ENFPs?

Yes of course. There was this ENFP I asked to confirm what a Ne Te loop looks like using function descriptions.

Ne wants to find the pattern, they are curious and share their findings. Te wants you to know what it's thinking by breaking it down and putting it back together. This sharing is a way for them to confirm what they are thinking is true/real.

Ne/Te will then run around to all their network and share their thinking and then ask for advise feedback. This sets up the loop. This new information is then repackaged and resubmitted to the tribe. Rinse repeat.

That guy/girl who tells everyone about this one issue that's on their mind with a slight twist everytime, but never actually DOES anything because they are too busy building theories then testing them by sharing? (Te) Yeah, that.

Break it with Si. "Dude do you have to reinvent the wheel?! This is basic shit, whats worked for you in the past in similar situations? How about others in similar situations?" Starve the troll Ne by not giving it new data to work with.
[MENTION=8714]CleanCuteNFP[/MENTION] if you're reading this stop by vent sometime :D
 

Betty Blue

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She's 19 and starts her studies in a few weeks.
I'm 20 and just finished my dual studies.



Yes, this may be depending on our age. Right now it seems like she is confusing me and I'm confusing her. :huh:



Well, she said she doesn't want to hurt me but when I asked she admitted that her feeling a little vulnerable also plays a role.
I don't think she needs more reassurance though, as I made the moves and I'm pretty saccharine to her.

Ah ok, well hmmm... unlikely she will settle at her age... but who knows. Also just fyi when I mention cultured inception is not exactly what comes to mind, thats more of a fun sic fi film... I was thinking more films such as 'the princess and the warrior' and 'betty blue' films of that ilk. Idk how they will appeal to the younger crowd.
 

Starry

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Everyone in this thread is awesome. idk I was just experiencing some combination of positive feelings yesterday being here...seeing Amargith again, five sounds, etc. Reading the contributions of some seriously insightful people... These kinds of threads will always be the best of TypoC imo.

Anyway, I don't have time just yet to respond to all I want to respond to...hopefully soon...but I wanted to try and explain an aspect of 'Feeler communication' that is even difficult for me to navigate.

EG...I totally agree with [MENTION=8584]SpankyMcFly[/MENTION] that sometimes you just need to say WTF and do it. What I am almost certain caused her reaction on the Apple Pie night...is that in her mind...she *thinks* she has already communicated to you that she'll let you know when the time is right to move forward intimately.

I'm almost 100% certain that when she said "I don't kiss on the first date" <-She was under the impression that she communicated a hell of a lot more than "I don't kiss on the first date." This is one of those phrases that is socially recognized as being packed with meaning and really if not then why would it even exist? it doesn't make much sense when taken entirely literally. "I don't kiss on the first date." Huh, interesting, well, "I don't take a combination of LSD and shrooms and streak naked across the field of the game he took me to screaming 'I'm God' and then puke in the back seat of his car after he paid to get me out of jail on a first date. On the second date however..."

Feelers may be more sensitive to this kind of statement...like for a good number of Feelers even if they didn't know the specific reasons why someone said "I don't kiss on the first date" (it means I take things slow)...it would be a signal to be more sensitive regarding initiating intimate/sexual contact. It would be a signal NOT to say WTF and make a move within the first few weeks of knowing her. <-The problem is she thinks you know this when you don't...so you look disrespectful kinda. This is why you got the volatile reaction when you jumped.
 

Forever

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Wait hold up, you went to prom? Are you sure you're an INTP? :laugh:

Kidding. Well you're further than me in that regard.
 

Starry

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Wait hold up, you went to prom? Are you sure you're an INTP? :laugh:

Kidding. Well you're further than me in that regard.


My coolest memory from prom was moments after getting into the car after being picked up my date had burned a quarter sized hole into the side of my dress with his cigarette haha. He felt so bad but I was like this is probably one of the most awesome things that has ever happened to me.
 

Forever

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My coolest memory from prom was moments after getting into the car after being picked up my date had burned a quarter sized hole into the side of my dress with his cigarette haha. He felt so bad but I was like this is probably one of the most awesome things that has ever happened to me.

That's actually really cute! Really makes a mark in your memory haha
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
I have dated an ENFP for a long time. I only have one advise : Never run after them. I've realised ENFP are very lovely but a lot into seduction too.
Maybe she just enjoys testing her own seduction/sex-appeal power on you.


Wow, that would be... kind of evil?

What [MENTION=22064]RedAmazoneFriendZone[/MENTION] says here is valid and it is something you need to be aware of. People do lead others on due to their insecurities with needing attention or love or whatever. It may not be purposeful or evil but that doesn't negate the havoc is causes. Nor should it excuse the behavior.

You are 19/20? Just beginning. :)

So, you're going to learn some hard lessons inevitably. Just as long as you are honest with yourself? And make conscious decisions and can own them? The better.

You know what she has told you. I think she is in the stage that Red describes. I think you will get your heart broken if you pursue and I would love to see you branch out from focus on just her. But that is my opinion and I was 20 once.

Just do me a favor? [MENTION=29219]EG_j[/MENTION] Don't turn bitter if it goes sour or you get hurt. You are making the decision to go for this girl knowing what she has told you about her flaws. Just take the lesson from it and apply it to the next one if it doesn't work.

Also, I hope you come around the forum more.
 

lexiphanic

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Just hopped in at the end. As an INTP that has studied relationships, charisma, and power dynamics dating an ENFP is kind of tricky for an intp, but straightforward once you realize why she's into you.

First off they love you. Your seemingly endless depth as an individual will have them gazing into your soul for hours on end. Very easy to have a strong mental connection. What you have to understand is that enfps tend to have exacerbated pretty white girl problems. They went to high school with a bunch of attention seeking daddy's issues little boys and girls all mindlessly chasing status. And they're some of the flightiest of the bunch. Sound critical?

So analyze what happens in those scenarios. Plans are made, and plans are canceled. Communications and conversations are started and abruptly halted. She will have learned to fear deep connection as it leaves her delicate little flowery soul oh so vulnerable. Your best bet as an INTP is to put the fuzzy cuffs on her. Limit your communication to once or twice a day, don't seek connection. Just act as though you're already in a relationship and give her the constant consistent validation that she has never gotten from any other guy before in her life. Be like her dad. At some point, something will come up in your life, and you'll be like: "She'll love this." And she will. Then just resume normal conversation.

If she doesn't view you as more intelligent than she is, you might have to game her a little bit. I never bothered learning game, and simply continued developing my intellect, social, and connection skills.

Another important thing. Know how to spot passive aggressiveness. That's when in the middle of a conversation she stops responding, in the middle of a date she doesn't want physical connection, or she misses plans or other dates. This is all a protection mechanism to slow or stop connection. As much as we all DEEPLY desire to be seen at the deepest level a lot of people have learned to fear it as well. So if she misses a date, just say: "Hey, sorry you had to miss the date, I'll talk to you later."

Oftentimes their subconscious will literally over-ride their thinking logical side. So they literally didn't make a conscious decision to reneg on an engagement, it's just their 'moodiness', 'depression', or whatever label they want to call it. (if they feel powerless in their life, they'll do this just so they subconsciously get validation that they have control in their lives, yeah it's shitty, but it's what humans do)

I've just hopped into a relationship with a beautiful crazy enfp girl. She had been creating worse and worse abusive relationships due to her passive aggressive communication style. After getting pulled into a hugely co-dependent relationship, I INTP'd the shit out of the situation, and now we're good friends that are looking to hook up and share our passions. Good stuff.

OH AND SUPER IMPORTANT! Know what asserting yourself is, when and how you should do it, and why. Practice standing up for yourself. Get good at this, and the INTP can shine in almost any social situation.

OH AND ALSO IMPORTANT! Don't worry about getting hurt. Getting hurt is one of the more beneficial life experiences simply because as you feel shitty you learn to jump into each of those feeling states, experiencing them, and plowing through to the next emotion, to the next emotion, to the next emotion. It's intense, and can leave you feeling burnt out but each time you do it, you'll get better and better at processing life's challenges. It's called building character. Everyone says to do it, but they don't tell you how. So for example if you want to kill yourself, scream "I FUCKING WANT TO DIE". You really can't over do it. (unless well meaning peeps send you to a psych ward). You get past that feeling, and then identify with and jump into the next feeling state. So on and so forth.
 

Starry

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Just hopped in at the end. As an INTP that has studied relationships, charisma, and power dynamics dating an ENFP is kind of tricky for an intp, but straightforward once you realize why she's into you.

First off they love you. Your seemingly endless depth as an individual will have them gazing into your soul for hours on end. Very easy to have a strong mental connection. What you have to understand is that enfps tend to have exacerbated pretty white girl problems. They went to high school with a bunch of attention seeking daddy's issues little boys and girls all mindlessly chasing status. And they're some of the flightiest of the bunch. Sound critical?

So analyze what happens in those scenarios. Plans are made, and plans are canceled. Communications and conversations are started and abruptly halted. She will have learned to fear deep connection as it leaves her delicate little flowery soul oh so vulnerable. Your best bet as an INTP is to put the fuzzy cuffs on her. Limit your communication to once or twice a day, don't seek connection. Just act as though you're already in a relationship and give her the constant consistent validation that she has never gotten from any other guy before in her life. Be like her dad. At some point, something will come up in your life, and you'll be like: "She'll love this." And she will. Then just resume normal conversation.

If she doesn't view you as more intelligent than she is, you might have to game her a little bit. I never bothered learning game, and simply continued developing my intellect, social, and connection skills.

Another important thing. Know how to spot passive aggressiveness. That's when in the middle of a conversation she stops responding, in the middle of a date she doesn't want physical connection, or she misses plans or other dates. This is all a protection mechanism to slow or stop connection. As much as we all DEEPLY desire to be seen at the deepest level a lot of people have learned to fear it as well. So if she misses a date, just say: "Hey, sorry you had to miss the date, I'll talk to you later."

Oftentimes their subconscious will literally over-ride their thinking logical side. So they literally didn't make a conscious decision to reneg on an engagement, it's just their 'moodiness', 'depression', or whatever label they want to call it. (if they feel powerless in their life, they'll do this just so they subconsciously get validation that they have control in their lives, yeah it's shitty, but it's what humans do)

I've just hopped into a relationship with a beautiful crazy enfp girl. She had been creating worse and worse abusive relationships due to her passive aggressive communication style. After getting pulled into a hugely co-dependent relationship, I INTP'd the shit out of the situation, and now we're good friends that are looking to hook up and share our passions. Good stuff.

OH AND SUPER IMPORTANT! Know what asserting yourself is, when and how you should do it, and why. Practice standing up for yourself. Get good at this, and the INTP can shine in almost any social situation.

OH AND ALSO IMPORTANT! Don't worry about getting hurt. Getting hurt is one of the more beneficial life experiences simply because as you feel shitty you learn to jump into each of those feeling states, experiencing them, and plowing through to the next emotion, to the next emotion, to the next emotion. It's intense, and can leave you feeling burnt out but each time you do it, you'll get better and better at processing life's challenges. It's called building character. Everyone says to do it, but they don't tell you how. So for example if you want to kill yourself, scream "I FUCKING WANT TO DIE". You really can't over do it. (unless well meaning peeps send you to a psych ward). You get past that feeling, and then identify with and jump into the next feeling state. So on and so forth.


Super interesting take on ENFPs I really appreciate this contribution.

And I think I do know what you're talking about with passive aggression. I think triple positive outlook ENFPs do present with something that either is or looks a lot like passive aggression but I feel compelled to say here...especially if the OP is going to give this a go (I've obviously missed some posts here stupid Kindle because I did not know this)... A lot of ENFPs are aggressive aggressive...And I don't get the sense the ENFP in the OP is triple positive outlook.

It would really concern me if every time I spaced out during a conversation or was late my partner wondered what was wrong with me. We are Ne doms....many of us with ADD diagnoses...this happens all the time and means nothing more than what I just said.

Likewise, I personally would not advise someone to change or limit behaviors that would normally come natural to them. I say this because I truly believe an ENFP is more likely to react poorly to inauthentic behavior and a crimp in the natural flow...than we would to someone being a little overwhelming at times but totally in their moment. I mean, I realize you are not saying "change who you come across as as you modify your behavior" but this is often what occurs for people as they feel awkward or restrained in some way...And we are hyper sensitive to that.

This is merely what I would suggest.
 

lexiphanic

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It would really concern me if every time I spaced out during a conversation or was late my partner wondered what was wrong with me. We are Ne doms....many of us with ADD diagnoses...this happens all the time and means nothing more than what I just said.

So, then what is the cause of your spaciness if not your subconscious manipulating your conscious mind in response to external stimuli?
 

Starry

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So, then what is the cause of your spaciness if not your subconscious manipulating your conscious mind in response to external stimuli?


I wasn't thinking along these lines but don't think anything I said was in opposition to the above (i should say though that I don't think these are strictly linear pathways that occur in isolation.) Ive noticed if I don't get enough sleep the night before I will be especially distracted the next day. If I was having a wonderful date with my new INTP love interest and made the choice to lose a few hours of sleep instead of end it before I wanted to. But the next day was late to meet him for coffee... Is that passive aggression to you?
 

EG_j

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Ne wants to find the pattern, they are curious and share their findings. Te wants you to know what it's thinking by breaking it down and putting it back together. This sharing is a way for them to confirm what they are thinking is true/real.

Ne/Te will then run around to all their network and share their thinking and then ask for advise feedback. This sets up the loop. This new information is then repackaged and resubmitted to the tribe. Rinse repeat.

That guy/girl who tells everyone about this one issue that's on their mind with a slight twist everytime, but never actually DOES anything because they are too busy building theories then testing them by sharing? (Te) Yeah, that.

Break it with Si. "Dude do you have to reinvent the wheel?! This is basic shit, whats worked for you in the past in similar situations? How about others in similar situations?" Starve the troll Ne by not giving it new data to work with.

Hm, still sounds less bad than self-destructive Ti-Si.
But your description matches with her sister quite well (she's an xNFP) :D

Ah ok, well hmmm... unlikely she will settle at her age... but who knows. Also just fyi when I mention cultured inception is not exactly what comes to mind, thats more of a fun sic fi film... I was thinking more films such as 'the princess and the warrior' and 'betty blue' films of that ilk. Idk how they will appeal to the younger crowd.

Yes but I shouldn't worry about this.
More like awesome sci fi. :D
I get your point but she's not quite a cineaste (carefully expressed) and is (more or less) excited about the things I show her. That's what I meant with "no problem".


Wait hold up, you went to prom? Are you sure you're an INTP? :laugh:

Kidding. Well you're further than me in that regard.

Reluctantly. :D
But it turned into a pretty great evening/night.
 
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