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[Traditional Enneagram] How Parent Types Contribute To Child Types

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Mama was a ENFJ 2w3. She had had a bad hard life as a child but she was proud...very proud. Stuffed full of pride on how awesome she was. Beautiful, polished, intelligent, and sophisticated that was her and she didn't miss any opportunity to show it to people. Pressure to perform was there and there was no affection without performance. I only felt visible to her because I looked just like her but different. My mother was thrilled with how I looked. I had very long, thick red hair, copper-skin...a true Redbone. I got attention and was stared at everywhere we went. She loved it and was so proud of this exotic-looking daughter. I hated it and wished to be invisible. She tried to doll me up (my aunts too) and I would deliberately sabotage it...refuse to perform...then regret it and try to please her because that was the only way to get her attention. All the other things that I thought were neat about myself...she knocked aside or ignored. As I grew older, I couldn't keep up 'living doll' stuff anymore so I got my wish. I disappeared and was invisible to her. I could feel her disappointment and disgust with me. You could cut the fucking air with it. She never said anything but she was an artist at controlling the emotional atmosphere. Even now, I'm way to damn sensitive to people's moods even though they haven't said a word...my ex used to manipulate the hell out of me with this.

When I was a teen, she became an alcoholic. I ended up raising myself. I did a really shitty job.

My dad was a ISTx 6w5. Cold, manipulative, passive-aggressive, and abusive. I didn't really talk to him or have a conversation with him until I was close to adulthood. If I tried, he wouldn't reply or would just push me aside. He didn't like me. He didn't like the way I looked. He'd ask my mother, "Why does she look like that?" Stupid question with all the Melungeon/Redbone ancestry on his side...in any case he didn't like it. It was just something to put her down with...trying to insinuate that I was a cuckoo in the nest. A really fucking nasty thing to hint at. But he said it in front of me. So...I felt ugly sometimes looking like I do. Ashamed like it was totally and completely my fault. I just wished he wasn't around. I hated how my mother jumped through hoops trying to please him and how nothing she did was never enough (and wow oh wow...I ended up being the same way!).

I think between the both of them, I felt like I wasn't worth the trouble of raising. Easily forgotten. That is what stands out in my mind the most--easily forgotten. I felt that I could be discarded at any time. I used to have terrible separation anxiety attacks when I was very young thinking that Mama would not come home. I would pace and cry. Call my grandmother and my aunties looking for her. She ridiculed me for this, so I stuck to my sister as a surrogate. She spoiled me and treated me like a small queen. I got what I wanted and was super-privileged. All the things I wanted from Mama, I got from my oldest sister instead. And then one day it was abruptly over because she got married. That was such a terrible blow to me that I never wanted to care about or be deeply attached to anyone ever again. Something broke inside (again).

As I got older, I had to learn to care for myself in everything. My parents weren't there--physically or emotionally either through not being at home or because of being passed out from drinking. That hurt really bad but I didn't really let myself think too much about the emotional part. Things were too gritty and I was too busy covering my ass working almost 40 hours a week and trying to finish high-school. Our house was literally falling apart and I was often sick and didn't know what to do about it. I got in a lot of trouble then, too...crazy, bad times.

I think the whole 4 sp/sx shows up in me from the both of them not seeing me. I could have been anyone. Any child. Not only that, I felt like I had made some sort of mistake or that I was flawed in some way that made me unacceptable. And whatever it was, it wasn't even worth their time or trouble to tell me. So not worth it at all. Me going, "What!? What is it? Will you tell me so I can do better? So I can make it right? Please!" And them saying, "No, just never mind. Just forget it." Irredeemable. I really have to be careful with myself in sp/sx...I have strong self-destruct tendencies. I'm not always good at seeing when too far is way too far because it's "good pain" at that time and I kinda need it. It would really be better for me to learn how to associate loving myself and treating myself gently as a good thing.

Ooh...forgot about my 3-wing. I am really good at projecting personas. It costs me lots of energy so I can't keep it up for long. I do it to keep people away from me and to influence how they see me. I don't see this as being fake...those personas are "me" but I make them more 'solid' for those moments.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

failure to thrive
Joined
Feb 20, 2009
Messages
5,585
MBTI Type
INfj
Enneagram
451
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
That is some tough stuff. May i offer a :hug: ?

Thanks for sharing all that.
 

Showbread

climb on
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
2,298
MBTI Type
ESFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I don't really relate to any of those scenarios, except maybe for enneagram 7.

My mom is an INFJ 962, and my dad is an ESTJ 173. My brothers are INTJ 584 and INFP 49?.

Mom: loving, unselfish, passive aggressive, very sensitive, patient, emotionally responsive

Dad: Outgoing, business-oriented, adventurous, low emotional intelligence, consistent, black and white thinker

I always felt appropriately responded to and secure in their affection/unconditional love. I don't remember ever feeling neglected or unimportant. I remember often feelings that they were unfair, they didn't always explain their reasons for making rules. I also had a tendency to get in trouble a lot, mostly for talking back, being a smart ass, bossing my brothers around. But looking back they were probably as fair as they really could have been considering they had to consider three different stories about the same fight and discipline accordingly.
 

The Tsarevich

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,037
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I could tell this story forever.

My mother: ISFJ 945 probably sp/sx.
Father: ENTP 683 probably soc/sx
Stepfather: INFP 926 soc/sp

My father left when I was 3 and my mom married my stepfather who thus became my father figure.

My stepfather tried studiously to avoid pissing off my real father by neglecting me, being mean to me, and otherwise cutting me out of the family. (Like rewarding my sister while leaving me out, punishing me for bullshit and letting her run wild. Buying her all sorts of expensive goodies and conveniently forgetting to buy me anything.) Because in his Te-inferior mind, this would mean that I wouldn't "bond" with him and therefore my father would never be pissed off at him. I'm not saying I was abused, I'm saying he treated me like an older brother (so hiding in my closet to scare me, whacking me with books when I misbehaved, making fun of me), except he was the father figure. So that didn't go over real well.

My mom would always take his side, no matter how unfair he was being because she wanted to present a "unified front", and mainly I just got the idea from this that she didn't care about me. Like she recently said something to me about, "Didn't you know how pissed off I was at him?" and I was like, "What? You got angry at him, ever??" She was negligent at her worst, and just sort of politely tuned out at best. She was also determined that I should follow my Own Way. I think her parents quashed her creativity at an early age, and she didn't want that to happen to me. So my Ne ran wild, which was both good and bad.

My real father would call sometimes, and my mother would tell him how happy I was (even though I was becoming progressively less happy in school, it was a lie) and my father would be too much of a coward to insert himself in a situation where something was clearly off. But dammit. He's given me a recap of everything that was ever "off" about the situation, from every year he ever met me. And his account would sound a lot more sinister than mine.

And that was the dynamic.

In my house, fighting was discouraged. Excitement was looked down on. They never went out and did anything, so my social skills and perspective suffered all the more. And I couldn't get angry, or my stepfather would mock and degrade me for it. I thought he was just invulnerable, but in retrospect, it unsettled him a lot and that was just the 9ish "denial" thing going on. I didn't make friends and I lost what little friends I had around the age of 12, so I spent a lot of time in my own room following my own projects since clearly no one my age wanted me around and my parents were boring and lame. The Final Fantasy series pretty much saved me during high school.

I'm not saying it was "bad", but I just get pissed off when writing about it. They're a major part of the reason I spent years unable to figure my type out, actually.

The main thing I got from my mom and stepdad was the sense that if someone gets angry at me, it's the end of the whole world, ever; I have pushed WAY the hell beyond my boundaries and I am going to be obliterated, then permanently ostracised from society. Because that was what anger meant to them. I never got to watch conflict resolution, because conflict was taboo. I sort of under- and over-estimate the power of anger, at the same time. It was like living in China: "WE ARE A HARMONIOUS SOCIETY", and everyone not living in China is just like...Yeeeahhhh...

Also, a complete inability to navigate my own life, but let's not get into that one.

It's funny, because even though I was raised like that (and there is a lot more to all the ways they influenced me, but that's just a recap), they ultimately didn't influence me on a really deep level. It didn't alter who I was.

Ultimately, I can't stand living in the American suburbs. I don't really value peace and complacency, and 20 years living with them couldn't change that. I still have my temper, no matter how inappropriate it was to express it. I watch the news, even if they don't care; I've been involved in climate change efforts even if they're too selfish to realize what they're doing. I still care about things, no matter how many times they tried to convince me that nothing mattered. I basically got my biological father's personality, thank god, along with his cognitive functions, Si-neuroses and inability to take care of self. Thank god I didn't get his anxiety.

All right, sorry if that sounds bitter or something, but I'm heavily pissed off at them right now. And, it's all true.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,789
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
In my house, fighting was discouraged. Excitement was looked down on. They never went out and did anything, so my social skills and perspective suffered all the more. And I couldn't get angry, or my stepfather would mock and degrade me for it. I thought he was just invulnerable, but in retrospect, it unsettled him a lot and that was just the 9ish "denial" thing going on. I didn't make friends and I lost what little friends I had around the age of 12, so I spent a lot of time in my own room following my own projects since clearly no one my age wanted me around and my parents were boring and lame. The Final Fantasy series pretty much saved me during high school.

I'm not saying it was "bad", but I just get pissed off when writing about it. They're a major part of the reason I spent years unable to figure my type out, actually.

The main thing I got from my mom and stepdad was the sense that if someone gets angry at me, it's the end of the whole world, ever; I have pushed WAY the hell beyond my boundaries and I am going to be obliterated, then permanently ostracised from society. Because that was what anger meant to them. I never got to watch conflict resolution, because conflict was taboo. I sort of under- and over-estimate the power of anger, at the same time. It was like living in China: "WE ARE A HARMONIOUS SOCIETY", and everyone not living in China is just like...Yeeeahhhh...
I'm going to have to give the thread my full contribution later. However, I relate to this segment a hell of a lot.
 

_wild_o'herring_

New member
Joined
Feb 16, 2015
Messages
1
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I grew with only a mom and so the absence of a father made me have to be tougher and more objective even though I'm a very subjective person. My mom has always had my best interests at heart but was too controlling and so I distanced myself and became even more introverted. My grandparents were there from when I was 2-8 because we had no where to go. And so growing up in a completely Asian household and family just made a bigger shadow to live in, causing me to become quite rebellious, wanting to be anything but what my family wanted. As an INFP my grandparents and mothers nurture tactics of criticism to do better than a good job, and judgments of other people really hurt me and I grew to resent them for quite a few years. My brother used to beat me when my mom wasn't home and would be less rough when they were around, normally brotherly love is understandable but with my personality it made my heart hurt and so I'm mainly a pacifist now. But for a while I wanted to make others feel my pain, then I discovered MBTI and it brought to light the fact that non-infps would not deal well with that much suffering in silence. So altogether my family experience has helped to shape my kindness and compassion to its fullest and also the darker sides of me became more apparent. Unfortunately people make me anxious and I've dropped out of school, and I can't go back until I do outreach work. Its real hard when my family still criticizes me for my mistakes
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,111
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Sometimes I wish I could go through all these old threads and scrub them clean of all my mistypings.

An updated and more brief version of my post from five years ago: I think my tritype is 145*, and I'm a pretty clear and obvious 1w9 sp/so. My parents' tritypes are 416 and 528, and I think they're both self-pres first.

My mom is the 4; her brand of 4 is easily mistaken for 1 or 3, so I think I absorbed a lot of her high standards, but also ended up serving, somewhat inappropriately, as her advisor and confidante, when I was too young to be doing so. I'm certain a lot of my 9 wing comes from the fact that both my dad and I needed to be level-headed to meet her emotional needs. Meanwhile, my dad (the 5) could be confrontational and volatile in a way that usually could only be dealt with by getting forcefully and directly to the point - expressing emotions meant having your argument dismissed. I've realized in recent years that he was sporadically emotionally abusive, in ways that were hard to put my finger on.

The root of my 5 trifix should be evident from the above. The root of my 4 trifix is, I think, having parents who were so certain of their own correctness that they didn't listen to me so much as they listened to their own preconceived notions of me. I did a lot of sitting in my feelings completely alone, where it was safe and where I wasn't misunderstood - writing stories and drawing pictures that I never showed to anyone.


*I had a really hard time figuring out my head trifix, but ultimately decided: being warm and friendly and prone towards making the group feel better about things is just as 9-wing as it is 7-fix; I don't have any of the need for freedom and newness/stimulation/escape that 7s do; and I don't have the weird relationship with authority and risk-taking that 6s do. Being an extroverted 1w9 and an extroverted 145 are both kind of odd, particularly paired with ESTJ, but 1. I've always been odd, and 2. it certainly explains why I'm hard for people to type. (Do I need to be explaining my typing here? No. Am I doing it because I'm pre-empting someone arguing with me? Maybe.)
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
4,858
MBTI Type
LEFV
Enneagram
461
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What I'm about to say could easily be a bunch of bullshit.

Looking into my parents' tritypes, I believe my mother is a 2w3 1w2 6w5 so/sp, and my father is a 9w8 3w4 7w6 sp/sx.

My mother has strong connections to type 2, and the adjacent types 1 and 3. Very image-oriented and can be seen as charming. She makes friends easily but holds people an arms-length away from her, unless they are members of her immediate family. Then her whole life seems to revolved by being appreciated and loved by them. She is the most compliant-triad person I've ever met in my life, and I believe the way she has raised me is why I am so conscientious of a person and discipline in general has never been an issue for me. She can also be a huge perfectionist. However, I've had conflicts with her lifestyle choices in constructing a "perfect" image to other people, as well as her disdain for getting too involved with merging into love interests or even passions.

My father is a pretty quintessential self-preservation 9. He avoids conflict as much as possible, and being angry. Hugely avoidant and withdrawn person, though if he gets angry, it tends to bubble over until the point of passive-aggressiveness. He's not as charismatic as my mother but likable with a good sense of humor. He's not as image-oriented, but like me he does get really competitive over games and outperforming certain people (for him he does have a strong 3w4 connection, maybe even movement to the type, but overall the triads of type 9 and core fears/desires fit him so much better). I see myself in him, especially that he is a soc-blind that can easily tune in to soc-elements in an unhealthy way. He's passive and tends to let the big decisions go to my mother, which causes a lack of resentment in him.
 

RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,701
MBTI Type
TiSi
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I believe my parents tritypes are 6w7 1w2 3w2 sp/so (for my mother) and 4w3/7w6 9w8 so/sp (for my father). It is interesting to note that myself, my brother, and my sister are all likely gut cores (I am a 9w1 5w6 3w2 sp/so, my sister is a 9w8 (926) sx/so with a very weak wing, and my brother is likely an 8w9/9w8 sp/so ~863), which I find interesting in the sense that all three of us are either obsessed with or struggle deeply with boundaries and the expression of anger.

My mother is almost stereotypically 6 core. She is highly anxious, struggles to trust others, and generally needs and desires a lot of support from those close to her in order to function best (but is also highly loyal once she generates secure bonds). Despite this, she is also intensely competent, organized, and willful, having a lot of difficulty slowing down and thinking things through, which further fuels her sense of anxiety and uncertainty. Being a 9 core with a 5 fix fits this need perfectly; At surface level I am a highly grounded character who "always has the answers" because I am constantly analyzing the world around me (as this is the only way I feel in control myself). It is easy to wish to be needless as well with someone as self denying as she can be in connection to her complaint triad motivations. I made a good confidant and advisor/therapist, especially since I don't have a natural understanding of where appropriate boundaries should lie and disdain feeling resentment towards others, hence I could easily see her 6 temperament contributing to my first two fixes and her competency focus settling the rest of my tritype. It was expected for me to be similar to her (and I wanted to be such initially), hence why I have all compliant wings I think and a strong connection to my disintegration line despite my lack of 6 motivations/mechanisms.

My father is always difficult to gauge. He is so image oriented and it is fairly easy to justify a disintegration pathway to 2 in this fashion (and why integration to 1 could be beneficial), however as the prototypical eternal child who does just want to enjoy life, 7w6 fits almost as well (especially since he is not stereotypically withdrawn either). He does not at all fit the social 4 archetype though, despite being fairly reactive he is also clearly double positive outlook. He is a highly frustrated and idealistic, never satisfied with anything and always looking for more (without moving into action of course). His biggest desire is to be a famous actor or to be intrinsic to the acting community and, frankly, he's quite talented and has pretty much ensured his spot in the community due to his charisma and expression style. He becomes incredibly jealous and volatile when others exceed in similar areas as him. He wasn't incredibly parental and I ended up resenting him from an early age despite the fact that we were chronically compared to one another, especially when I mistepped (as we are both also notable Ne users), hence it makes sense again that I would be 9, pushing away from the limelight and forcing myself to be satisfied with less than I probably should, but with a strong 1/frustration edge that chronically pushed for a better reality (for others at least) and probably a bit of my 3 in the sense that I do associate achievement with my self worth among other things.
 

тень

тень
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
5,816
MBTI Type
TiNi
Enneagram
649
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I became who I am, by wanting to be the opposite of them growing up. Learning through bad example + trauma.
 

Saturnal Snowqueen

LL"s Atom Bomb Baby
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
5,232
MBTI Type
FELV
Enneagram
947
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I'm pretty sure my dad is a 1w9 5w4 4w5 sp/so and my mom a 4w5 6w5 8w9 sp/sx. The question didn't ask for MBTI, but they do go hand in hand. I think dad is an odd INFP, if not ISTJ. I went with ISTJ for awhile as he does seem more ST temperament, but also he does have some really good Ne so unless it's cause he's in his 40s and it's well developed now inferior Ne seems weird. My observation with older people with their inferior function is that they seem to find it charming and amusing, and you see it pop out once in awhile but not all the time. I don't see this in my dad, though. Also, a lot of men aren't obviously NF temperament anyway. My mom is another INFP, her Ne wasn't as silly and quickwitted as my dads' For her it showed more in her art and her speculative thinking. Obviously two INFPs making an INFP makes sense, but enneagram is a little more interesting.

It's pretty obvious where my 9 came from. Both my parents are angry people, although they have their own unique brand. My mom it was an unbridled anger that mostly seemed to come from her projecting on me, but it could be all sorts of things that were bothering her. My dad's anger is definitely very 1w9. He's definitely in touch with it, but he has that 9 wing to bring him back to Earth and tell him to reel it in, although this is harder for him when he disintegrates to 4. When that happens, he becomes rather bitter and nothing can suffice. Luckily, he rarely takes it out on me cause I'm special, but it definitely makes for a tense household. It's weird, even though my mom's anger hurt me way more, my dads' feeds into my 9ness more. Like lately, I've noticed my anger style is more like my dads, and what I catch it I stop myself and I'm like, "You know what happens....". Basically, growing up I learned that if you're angry, very bad things will happen and so the best thing to do is just not be angry. My mother was verbally abusive, and it took me awhile to register it cause I remember one time she said to me, "You think I abuse you??", and so I was for awhile thinking, "Was I abused, or just being a spoiled brat who can't handle being yelled at?" When my mom died, the only person who could really yell at me anymore was my dad, so it was like, might as well not make him do that. But I also had more respect for him, because he lacked the same projection that my mom had and didn't yell at me unless he had a good reason. He was less judgmental of me, treated me more like a daughter than a pet. In my younger years, I don't remember my parents being that angry, and so my gut type wasn't as obvious. Like I wasn't un-nine, but I didn't really have any strong relationship of anger. I didn't have any motivations to hide my anger because I didn't know yet that it was such a nasty thing. Luckily, nothing much was making me angry, so it was more moments of boldness I had rather than true anger.

The 7 is interesting cause blood wise there isn't any 7. Like my 9 my grandma is a core 9, and we have a lot of common. But yeah, the parents have no 7s, grandparents have no 7s, probably some cousins but yeah. It makes sense, though. For one, I had to sort of make my own fun. I would have fun with my family members yes, but hanging out with friends was a rare treat for me, I lacked those "formative" experiences. Some of this was the paranoia of my mom, some of it was just my social failings. I also was an only child, so I was left alone to make up my own worlds and inventions, tons of solitary projects. Also, I think my 47 stem shows here mostly-I remember always thinking other people were boring as all hell. I thought they were all clones of each other, and that I was more unique and fun compared to the rest of them and I'd always peacock that. Family wise, I found their traditions stale and outdated and I'd fight for something new. And it's weird, despite my parents having Ne-a very stereotypically 7 function, my Ne made me feel like a black sheep. But this is where MBTI+enneagram come in-my Ne is very exploratory, and my parents were not. My dad can make up the best comebacks in 2 seconds, but I wouldn't describe him as exploratory. My mom was even less so, and so to this day I do not do well with uninspiredness at all.

My parents both have 4s, so makes sense I have one. My mom's wing is a little blurrier but my dad's 4 is definitely a 5 wing. But I'm confident in my 4w3, so it's interesting my wing is different from theirs. But with what I said about the projection, makes sense. Some women live out their dreams through their daughters, and it kinda seemed like she did that. Like it felt like if I wasn't doing something that wasn't successful in the eyes of both hers and others, I was a piece of shit. But then she never seemed to do those same things herself, so maybe it was some sort of deep seated regret? But being a 4 herself, she did want to be authentic to myself, so she wasn't like a Dance Mom or anything. So yeah, I felt like in my academia years that I had to always be at peak status. And once I wasn't, I felt like I was broken. I don't think my dad really contributed to my 4? We weren't super close as a kid, and he didn't really have a ton of expectations for my image. I know he did get upset sometimes when my mom was pushing me, but while that's a bit un-three it's nothing specifically 4. When I got older and he did start sharing his ideals for me, I was too old to still be in the formative stage of my type. His advice was more about being practical more than anything, which I enjoyed, both because it was really useful and I didn't think I had to fit any sort of mold.
 

Methylene

Now with less salt.
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Messages
1,816
MBTI Type
LGBT
Enneagram
639
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Father's the most counterphobic 6w5 8w9 3w2 sp/sx ENTJ
Mother's 6w7 ?w? ?w? so/sx ENFJ. She's a mix of cp and ph.

And here I am, a mix of their worst qualities. 6w5 3w4 9w8 so/sp, both cp and ph.

Let me tell ya, You don't want to live only with enneagram 6s.
 
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