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[Traditional Enneagram] How Parent Types Contribute To Child Types

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Have you ever thought about how who your parents are as individuals, has affected who you have become? The Enneagram has provided a lot of clarity on that topic for me and am curious if others have made simmilar developmental connections, that they'd be willing to share.

For example: My Dad is 3w4 Sp/Sx, 378, and my Mom is 2w3, Sp/Sx, 261. My experience all my life has been being over-helped, and over-pushed. Cultural ideals were glorified heavily, and in my Dad's abscence (working and traveling), I became the much needed anchor and truth speaker in my family.

I love both of my parents dearly, but no parent is perfect. Their attitudes towards me from a young age caused me to assert my independance forcefully. My Mom has always done things without asking, some very thoughtful, but some controlling and dismissive of my own preferences and abilities. In middle school I started refusing some of this automatic "help". The caused me to develop pretty direct communication, and confusion as to why others didn't say what they thought. I saw my Mom as weak for many years, because she could not quell the chaos in our house, but instead kind of hid from it. I ended up taking that role on myself. Enter 8 fix.

My Dad's influence is much more indirect, but has almost shaped me more heavily. He has been emotionally and physically absent much of my life, and so loved me with money and material things instead-- something from a young age, I began to not only devalue, but villianize. I also began to see "showing off" (or any form of narcissistic behavior) as abhorant, and started to hide and drown my own gifts out of fear of becoming like my Dad in that way. I was humiliated by his arrogance and demeaning of other people, and by the time I was about 12, kind of livid about it. I began to see the open use of my own gifts in that light, that it was shameful, and not authentic to perform for praise. I suspect this was pretty big in my core development as a 4/5-- learning that things were not good unless they were done out of pure expression, and that material, main stream, achievement nauseated me. I think also because I could not relate to, or desire to be either of my parents, true, individual identity became a deep interest.

Anyone else? How did your parents types contribute to your own?
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,130
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm a 1w2 / 173 so/sx. My mother is 1w2 / 162, either so/sx or so/sp. My father is 5w6 / 512 or 521, either so/sp or sp/so. I relate to this website's description of 7 parenting and of 1 parenting.

What contributed to 7:
My parents were both very loving and gave me a lot of positive feedback. We had a lot of fun and laughed a lot. They gave me a lot of independence in terms of who I hung out with, how late I stayed out, where I went. I was an only child, which -- while I recognize that only childhood doesn't create the same traits in everyone -- gave me a carefree and positive attitude in a lot of ways, and a strong sense of confidence in my own ability to charm people.

What contributed to 1:
I often felt a lot of judgment and a lot of worry, from both of my parents. I'd find myself trying to interpret their judgments and worry-triggers into rules that I could make for myself, since they wouldn't make those rules for me. (I was always a "good kid", so they didn't need to create any sort of strict disciplinary system.) I've been learning over time that my internal rule structure is much stricter than that of either of my parents, which makes sense because 1) it needed to be parental-disappointment-proof, 2) it needed to withstand relentless (but well-meaning) logical questioning and micromanaging from my dad, and 3) it needed to ensure that my parents would never worry about me.

Not 100% sure what contributed to 3 and to so/sx. I presume I absorbed the social-focus from both of my parents. My 3-ness probably comes from the instances when I didn't meet my own 1 standards or my parents' standards, and needed to cover my own ass so they'd never know what I did. So if my 1-ness came from wanting to avoid parental concern and criticism, then my 3-ness did too.


Edit: Another factor that made an impact, was an early impression of my mother as 1) passionately opinionated and with great ideas, and 2) rarely willing to stand up for those ideas and opinions under fire. To this day, she has a lot of trouble reconciling her 1w2-ness with her fear of conflict. (If she has a 6 fix, it's VERY phobic.) As soon as I realized this about her, it made me angry, and I resolved to never, ever become that. So if I was a 1w2 already, that strengthened it x1000.
 
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Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,784
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
My dad was an 8w7 or 7w8 (not sure which), ESTP. But he was pretty outward directed, was always right, seemed terrified of examining his inner world, and liked to be the dominant person in the room. He was impossible to deal with; I think he was harder on us than the students he worked with. I remember him never ever taking my side on anything or listening to what I had to say; to him, every exchange was someone out trying to con him, and so he could never provide any kind of support appropriate to a situation. His drinking addiction just made everything far worse. I could admire his abilities as a teacher from afar, but I did not have a real relationship with him as a person and basically I'd observe/listen to him interact with others (when around) at a safe distance while avoiding being noticed so as to not have to deal with him... You would never win or even reach a compromise with him, it was his way or no way.

My mom was a solid 2 (ISFJ). Very meek and quiet, diligent, responsible, labored for long hours to hold the family together when my dad was off doing whatever it was he was doing all the time. She was quietly religious and thus holds a lot of specific beliefs about the world; but she wasn't one to preach, except that one should forgive people and move on, and one should be kind/considerate. Her ideas about life were simply to do things for others and be kind and not get too lost in thought.

When I was growing up as a 5w4, I was kind of a mix of the two of them, although aspects of my father have become more apparent later in life. He and I were more capable of having a thinking discussion, but since he never dialogued (he just imposed himself), we did not converse much at all. Meanwhile, I could connect less with my mother, but she was far more accessible both physically and emotionally than my father ever was; the other problem was that the marriage issues there led her to be extremely codependent, so I tended to avoid her as much as possible as well, I felt smothered. A shorthand for it is that inwardly I "thought" more like my dad (more canny, more sarcastic, more discerning/skeptical, more humorous), but I was interacted outwardly more like my mom... I was soft-spoken, not rude to others, was accommodating and responsible for tasks I was given, etc.

I was rewarded by the aspects of my type that my parents approved of. I was very smart, and they wanted me to excel in school. They both thought reading was important and provided money for books and weekly library trips. They wanted me to be exposed to music, and I took lessons. Neither was creative in the "artsy" way, but they encouraged me to write and draw and compose music and whatever else and took pride in that. So those aspects of Five were rewarded.

However, I developed an aversion to aggressive people (mostly e8's and Type A's); I spent almost ALL my time alone and had conflicting emotions of contentment/loneliness; I rarely shared with others what I truly thought (to avoid being reprimanded or shamed); I had a darker view of the world in general (like, "we're fated to be misunderstood/alone"); I just did not invest in personal ties; I did not learn practical tasks. it was kind of the classic "INTP up in the library tower working on personal magic/science projects all the time" life, without much ability to socially relate in different scenarios. I would say I spent the second twenty years of my life unlearning a lot of the things I learned during the first twenty and finally becoming more well-rounded.

I guess a positive I picked up, though, surviving that childhood, was in the development of diplomatic skills. My own perspective was rejected by my parents, so I learned how to see things from a variety of vantage points (theirs included) and learned how to try to smooth conflict. That was always a part of me, but it become much stronger since if I couldn't withdraw from a situation (preferred style, especially for a 549 tritype), the next was to somehow "make it a safe place" where conflicting ideas could coexist without killing each other.
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
I can relate to the interaction scenario that a 4 child must go through. I don't really feel comfortable elaborating, but it resonates a lot :(

7 and 8 remind me of my brother.
 

á´…eparted

passages
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
8,264
I'm 1w2 (136), my father is 1w2 (173, I believe), and my mother is 9w8 (946). @EJCC, after reading your account, it actually explains a decent chunk of how my dad came to be growing up (his experiences differed, but I see it totally).

What interesting is, up until around the age of 16 I rejected my father nearly completely, and up until around 21 I still rejected him partially. It wasn't until around 22/23 that I came to accept him and understand him. It's interesting that, for as much as we are totally polar opposite people, we share a ton in common. My mother was my rock growing up, and I didn't start parting ways from her mentally and emotionally until around 19/20. My parents divorced at the age of 3, and I spent the weeks with my mom, and weekends with my dad up until I was 13. After that it reversed (my decision) until I went to college.

As for where my 1ness came from:


So it boils down to this for 1: Pressure from father to do things right (which was a subconscious influence) + My drive to win and be the best lead to 1 to a heavy degree. What finished it off was my mothers instillment of self confidance, self certainty, and moral development added the 2 wing, and completely locked 1 into place.

For my 3w4 fix: It came from similar influences. My need to win being one of them. One of my default tactics was if I couldn't be the best or do things perfectly, I would at best make myself appear like I did, or make myself fit into something to carry a facade. I also was very fixed on status because it was one of the things my father approved of. If I had an objective object or whatever that validated, backed up, or proved I did something he'd be over the moon (he was actually surprisingly easy to please, you just had to know what things please him). He didn't respond to anecodotal, subjective, abstract, or fuzzy sorts of skill or success. My mom was the opposite, but because she essentially just loved everything about me, and only got upset when I did poorly in school (she actually did punish me rather harshly when I did). Because of that her approval/disapproval had no effect on me. It all made me hold a lot of weight into status, and acquiring externally valid pieces of proof that I have had success. I always feel the need to constantly rise as well. That actually came from my mother. She was very big on self-improvement and instilled that me. I saw it as an amazing tool to acheive perfection, so I took it, ran with it, and applied to everything. As such the need to be constantly making it to the next level gets applied everywhere. The 4 wing is I am not doing this to please others, it's purely internal and selfish. Getting others approval is incidental.

For my 6w5 fix: This also has the same influences as above. This was a pervasive thing that was weighted equally from both parents and my peers. Because I fucked up and did things wrong so frequently (the social world), I started to become very cautious, and self protective of others. People struck me as unpredictable and I tried to guard against it. I also latched onto authority figures to act as support against this unpredictability, and I went with anything that was convienent at the time. Neither of my parents tried to instill this, and my mother actually taught me to be less fearful of people I didn't understand, but that it's ok to have guards and filters up. My father never saw this as an area to address, or perhaps he just flat out didn't see it. I was very gregarious up until around 7 or 8 (that faded to a much smaller level and didn't really come back until a few years ago), and that's predominatly what he saw. He also had the sense that I wasn't dumb; he'd let me run around by myself at the age of 9 in six flags great adventure for hours on end.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,644
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
i turned out as kinda a hybrid of the two. my mom is ENFP 7w6, probably so/sx, not sure about tritype but probably 2 for heart fix. my dad was an INTP 5w4 sp/sx. loving and accepting but unstructured and unstable.

i actually relate a little more to the enneagram 5 parental relationship description, i wanted to do my own thing and as an only child felt like I had too much attention on me. my sense of alienation was more among my peers than my family. my parents encouraged the feeling that I was special and different from the other kids.

i was raised only by my mom since I was 8 or 9 years old, and I felt like I was the adult in some ways. not by being responsible but I was more the emotional grownup. more cool-headed.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Dad, ISTJ

Cold, emotionless, insensitive, controlling, narcissistic (seriously, may be diagnosable), Doctor with a God complex, is always right, never said "I'm sorry" SUPER religious/self-righteous.

Basically, an asshole.

But I wouldn't say horrible person. He ruled the family with a very traditional patriarchal, Jesus is the answer to everything fist, but he provided for us very well (mom, sister, brother, me) but didn't raise his kids. He didn't have the slightest clue how.


Mom, ISFJ

Meek, timid, pushover, at times, totally emotionally insane (but rare).

Also loving, understanding, and very perceptive. Unfortunately she didn't act on many of these skills. Is about as assertive as a mouse. I am the baby of the family, so she spoiled me when my dad wasn't looking. Probably where a lot of my entitlement issues developed.

I think if my dad hadn't been around, we would have been closer (we are now). They almost got a divorce when I was 16 and I was rooting for it. Oh well.

It's worth mentioning my siblings.

Brother, INTJ, hand surgeon. A lot like my father when we were young. He too was emotionally invisible, basically ignored my existence, zero relationship (that's changed). I would have prefered he beat me up like a big brother is supposed to.

Sister, I wanna say same as my mom, ISFJ. She was a bitch (still kind of is) and would torment me every chance she could. Anything to get under my skin, and she was quite successful up until around 12 when she (16) got a life.



So baptist church 3 times a week, Sunday, Sunday night choir, Wednesday Youth Group. Though the last 2 were most of the time, Sunday morning was mandatory, no exceptions unless I was dying. No TV on Sundays. Other than maybe a dozen or so times I was sick, I think it's possible I didn't miss a single day of church from the time I can remember going until I turned 18.

I fucking hated it. Even at 9, I remember asking my mom how we knew God was real or if Christianity was the "right one." She said something like, "Because it just is!!"

ENTPs in this environment are stifled.

I fucking went to church, but as soon as I could drive, 16, I was getting away and hanging out with my liberal, progressive friends, getting drunk every other weekend. Chasing girls.

My dad still talks about how rebellious I was. Relative to him, I was, but my friends were doing the same stuff and their parents understood, more or less, it was part of being a teenager. But my dad's attempt at controlling me definitely fueled it more.

All my friends were "sinful" even though today almost all of them are very successful. Lawyers, filmaker, teachers, musicians, professors. We were the "smart" kind-of cool kids. But they were naughty naughty non-christians.

Anyway, in this environment, I learned to buck any and all authority, something I think I am naturally inclined towards anyway. Like [MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION], I came to abhor arrogance and huge egos, flattening them whenever they cramp my style. All that time in the household with no one but myself, I learned to be comfortable alone, and would draw or make videos, play with legos for hours, read, huge imagination. I think that's one reason I'm so fiercely independent. Not really relying or depending on anyone but myself. Definitely not always a good thing.

I had niceties and college paid for, but I had to teach myself about the world, about women, about how to be a man, everything basically. Still learning. Though I didn't respect authority, I was a collector of father figures, whether older or even my friends. Even today. If someone can teach me something.

Also, being so sheltered and constricted for so long, after 18 years, my prison sentence was up, so I became pretty curious and bold about anything and everything in the world, all the while not giving a single fuck what people thought about me. Approval was something I never got (instead hyper criticism), so I adapted to it.

Hmmmmm....yeah I think that's all the self-psychoanalysis I got for now, ha.

btw, I'm not bitter towards anyone in my family. They just were who they were. I used to be, but it really serves no purpose.

edit: also not bitter towards religion or religious people, though again, used to be.
 

SpankyMcFly

Level 8 Propaganda Bot
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
2,350
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
461
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Hmmmmm....yeah I think that's all the self-psychoanalysis I got for now, ha.

btw, I'm not bitter towards anyone in my family. They just were who they were. I used to be, but it really serves no purpose.

*nods*
 

Evastover

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2015
Messages
77
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
2
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Welp, both my parents test as INTJ's, but my father is very outwardly affectionate, very silly, sometimes reckless, generally cheerful, diplomatic, energetic... He acts like an INTJ sometimes, but not really...? Maybe I'm just stereotyping here. To be honest, I'm not sure about my mother either.

I'm going to guess INTJ Mum and ENTP Dad.


My Mum (the Bad Cop)

My mother has tried to fashion me into a ruthless, pragmatic dictator but alas, I'm too soft ;_; She tells me I need to stop being such a "damn Pollyana" all the time. We've had a very rocky relationship for the past decade or so. She's pretty controlling, but very willing to go against any pre-conceived societal rules. My mom's a total badass. She probably passed on to me the "I'm-Not-Giving-Up-Till-I'm-Dead" attitude, which has been pretty useful. Only downsides are that she angers pretty easily and it's hard to get her to see another person's perspective sometimes- but she's become more flexible, less high-strung as she's gotten older. I've had to prove to her that no, I'm not an idiot, just a stubborn optimist. I value her practicality. The bad times are pretty bad, but overall I'd say that we get along pretty well.


My Dad (the Good Cop)

hehe... my dad and I should have our own talk show. Whereas I try to be a sensitive listener around my mum, I banter back and forth with my father all the time. I probably got my great speaking ability from him. He's generally well-liked by everyone and pretty easy-going. At the same time, he's not very emotional. He's quite positive and uplifting unless he's under a lot of stress. I've heard stories of him being an insensitive asshole before I was born, but I have yet to be privy to that. Well sure, he's been insensitive at times but it's more out of a refusal to get worked up about something. Downsides are that he can be pretty lazy and not as responsible as my mother.


Good Cop/Bad Cop Situation

I realize that I tend to paint my father in a more positive light, but it's been my mother that's had to do the hardest work in raising me. She's the one that's advocated for the expenses in lessons and clubs. She's the one who spent every day with me while my dad was away for months or years at a time. She's the one who cooked my meals, made sure I didn't look homeless, and drove me to keep going and be a better person when I would have rather given up on life. I resented her when I was younger, but I didn't realize at the time just how much she did for me behind the scenes. She did things ten years ago that I'm still reaping the benefits for today. She's didn't always give me what I wanted, but I've always had what I needed.


How I Turned Out Because of Them

Both my parents are pretty intellectual and, while I'd like to think I've inherited that quality to some degree, I'm more of a save-the-world kind of person. I'm focused on helping people whereas they were more "this is what I want and what will be of most logical benefit, and this is how I'm going to get it". I'm pretty goal-oriented myself, but with different goals. Neither of them give a shit about being normal or following tradition/preconceived notions which is awesome.

I think my parents are cooler than I am D:
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,803
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Dad, ISTJ

Cold, emotionless, insensitive, controlling, narcissistic (seriously, may be diagnosable), Doctor with a God complex, is always right, never said "I'm sorry" SUPER religious/self-righteous.

Basically, an asshole.

But I wouldn't say horrible person. He ruled the family with a very traditional patriarchal, Jesus is the answer to everything fist, but he provided for us very well (mom, sister, brother, me) but didn't raise his kids. He didn't have the slightest clue how.


Mom, ISFJ

Meek, timid, pushover, at times, totally emotionally insane (but rare).

Also loving, understanding, and very perceptive. Unfortunately she didn't act on many of these skills. Is about as assertive as a mouse. I am the baby of the family, so she spoiled me when my dad wasn't looking. Probably where a lot of my entitlement issues developed.

I think if my dad hadn't been around, we would have been closer (we are now). They almost got a divorce when I was 16 and I was rooting for it. Oh well.

It's worth mentioning my siblings.

Brother, INTJ, hand surgeon. A lot like my father when we were young. He too was emotionally invisible, basically ignored my existence, zero relationship (that's changed). I would have prefered he beat me up like a big brother is supposed to.

Sister, I wanna say same as my mom, ISFJ. She was a bitch (still kind of is) and would torment me every chance she could. Anything to get under my skin, and she was quite successful up until around 12 when she (16) got a life.



So baptist church 3 times a week, Sunday, Sunday night choir, Wednesday Youth Group. Though the last 2 were most of the time, Sunday morning was mandatory, no exceptions unless I was dying. No TV on Sundays. Other than maybe a dozen or so times I was sick, I think it's possible I didn't miss a single day of church from the time I can remember going until I turned 18.

I fucking hated it. Even at 9, I remember asking my mom how we knew God was real or if Christianity was the "right one." She said something like, "Because it just is!!"

ENTPs in this environment are stifled.

I fucking went to church, but as soon as I could drive, 16, I was getting away and hanging out with my liberal, progressive friends, getting drunk every other weekend. Chasing girls.

My dad still talks about how rebellious I was. Relative to him, I was, but my friends were doing the same stuff and their parents understood, more or less, it was part of being a teenager. But my dad's attempt at controlling me definitely fueled it more.

All my friends were "sinful" even though today almost all of them are very successful. Lawyers, filmaker, teachers, musicians, professors. We were the "smart" kind-of cool kids. But they were naughty naughty non-christians.

Anyway, in this environment, I learned to buck any and all authority, something I think I am naturally inclined towards anyway. Like [MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION], I came to abhor arrogance and huge egos, flattening them whenever they cramp my style. All that time in the household with no one but myself, I learned to be comfortable alone, and would draw or make videos, play with legos for hours, read, huge imagination. I think that's one reason I'm so fiercely independent. Not really relying or depending on anyone but myself. Definitely not always a good thing.

I had niceties and college paid for, but I had to teach myself about the world, about women, about how to be a man, everything basically. Still learning. Though I didn't respect authority, I was a collector of father figures, whether older or even my friends. Even today. If someone can teach me something.

Also, being so sheltered and constricted for so long, after 18 years, my prison sentence was up, so I became pretty curious and bold about anything and everything in the world, all the while not giving a single fuck what people thought about me. Approval was something I never got (instead hyper criticism), so I adapted to it.

Hmmmmm....yeah I think that's all the self-psychoanalysis I got for now, ha.

btw, I'm not bitter towards anyone in my family. They just were who they were. I used to be, but it really serves no purpose.

edit: also not bitter towards religion or religious people, though again, used to be.

I was sweet and submissive until about 2 years ago, then
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,627
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My dad is ENTP 7w8 and left when I was 2. His priority in life was music. While he is very outgoing socially, he is very self-absorbed and did the bare minimum for us growing up. He generally is focused on his creative projects and socializing with friends. He is not a family oriented person and tends to fulfill basic obligations and that is all. I'm pretty sure that was one major source of incompatibility with my ISFJ mother. He wasn't bad to us, but he never took much interest in us. He regarded me as smart in a bookish way and has always sort of respected me as a fellow creative. He has almost always spoken to me as a peer.

As far as his influence, I know I internalized a feeling of not being important enough for my dad to stick around or take an interest in. I know I have "abandonment" issues, as far as feeling people won't stick around because I am not important to them as they are to me. I would often interpret any end to a relationship that way. What's interesting is I could tell these people regarded me as extraordinary, such as my dad always noting my books smarts and artistic talent, but they still seemed dismissive of me. This creates a weird message that you are "different" but not particularly likable or important to people.

My mom is ISFJ 6w7 sp/so, and I initially mistyped her as a 2. She can seem ambiverted, like many 6w7s, but she also had a certain preoccupation with her own inner world when we were growing up. She could be a smothering mother, but at least she took an intense interest in us. Her preoccupation with her own fears, especially those of being without support, could make her unaware of other people's internal states. I've noticed with people like her, a lot of the nurturing they do is more about securing their relationship with you and less so an understanding of what you need or want. Hence, the tendency to be intrusive yet oblivious to some things. I felt simultaneously smothered and alienated. I was heavily misunderstood, and both my e6 mom and e2 ESFJ grandma would project their insecurities onto me - that I was cold and prickly. Really, they were insecure and needed too much reassurance and attention. I sometimes felt ganged up on by my mom and sister, who had great difficultly in understanding my perspective and were eager to dismiss me as cold and argumentative. My ESFP e7w6 sister and ESFJ e2 grandma were heavily critical of my personality because I was not warm and outgoing. My sister would tell me I was an ugly person on the inside and that no one liked me; she admits as an adult that she was being manipulative. She still doesn't like to admit she can be a bully and will try to attack people's insecurities, because she always thinks she is a positive force and others are just raining on her parade. My tendency towards being cerebral and analytical can strike her as so "not fun" as to be negative and even hostile. Strangely, she is the one who will get very angry if I approach anything from a theoretical stance. Yet, she will project that onto me, as if I am being disagreeable.

My ESFP sister was very social and charming and my mom greatly admired her for that, but she was also less principled, and my mom seems to respect me more for my consistency. Both of us would claim the other was the favorite, although there was no outright competition between us as sisters. My sister demanded a lot of attention and my mom gave it to her, and as an adult, my mom actually apologized to me and acknowledged I was ignored a bit. However I think my mom probably did try to ask me about my school day, but I likely didn't say much, whereas my sister was happy to unfold some social drama for her. My mom probably didn't realize I'd prefer to talk about my creative projects and things I had read. Or often my communication style was deemed argumentative, because I'd want to analyze things and this was seen as unpleasant. So I felt like I was both smothered and put upon at times emotionally, yet my actual needs were things others were unwilling to meet (ie intellectual stimulation, valuing of my strengths as an individual). I took refuge in books and music and the fantasy life. I'd usually have a best friend in which there was a mutual obsession and I'd bring them into my fantasy worlds.

I was told a lot growing up that I was smart, talented, and also strange. I was compared heavily to my INTP uncle and somewhat to my INFJ aunt. Obviously I internalized that as an identity. Even though I heard a lot of positive feedback concerning me being intellectual, artistic, and very much an individual, it seemed like it was valued far less than being warm, outgoing, and nurturing like an SF woman. So the basic message I got from all around was, "You are kind of talented and strange, but this is not that interesting or valuable to us, so we will largely ignore you unless we need something from you emotionally or feel some obligation towards you."

I definitely did not feel truly "seen" as a child. I wanted to be seen, but I felt ashamed of myself at the same time, and it made me feel needy, which I rejected. I had a sense of life being demanding but delivering up unsatisfying mediocrity, and that's what my SF family kind of created as far as the emotional dynamic.
 
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Qlip

Post Human Post
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
8,466
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
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sp/sx
My mother was a 7w8, and my father was a 9w1. This maybe contributed to my enneatype, but so much more was involved. She's a narcissist and has little regard for people other than what they do for her. My father was very tired, he worked a lot to pay for the things my mother wanted and was mostly absent from the managing of day to day life. I was born 5 of 6 with a very strange familial inheritance.

My father was tired, I was an answer to my mother's boredom and not long after I was born there was a death in my family, I lost my next oldest brother in a car accident as a result of one of my older brother's choices as a result of my mother's neglect, as far as I could make out. I'm not sure what it was like before, but after that everything was definitely broken.

Formatively I was an only child, my older siblings left the house ASAP to flee the situation. I was doted on in whimsy, and left to my own devices the rest of the time. There was a disconnect between being scolded and punished for being home an hour late, and being completely forgotten to be picked up from school and walking home to a locked house. Both happened often.

There was also a tension with the church my mother joined as a result of the accident. My father reluctantly participated in it. It was an extension of my family, a kind of control mechanism and support system for my mother. I was always a sinner and a bad influence. I didn't know how, and couldn't possibly be everything the church Elders wanted from me. But I desperately wanted to be right with God.

At 6 I got myself a little bro. We grew up nearly feral and wore suits on Sundays.

I suppose the 4, according to mentioned ennea-development came from desiring attention from absent parents. E4's have some very interesting diversity in behavior between instinctual stackings, and my own makes sense in my environment. I'm sp/sx, I had to essentially protect myself from my source of desired attention. It explains a lot.
 

Trefle

New member
Joined
May 13, 2009
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53
MBTI Type
INFJ
My father is a 6w5 ESTJ so/sp
My mother is a 9w1 ENFP sp/sx. (It seemed)

I am an INFJ 6w5, sp/so

How they develop my ennea?

Hmm.

My father is a hard, hard, paranoid man. He constantly worry; as much as he often trusted people around him when it comes to nonprivate things.

He was also very diligent. Very hardworking, and taught me the values of perspective.

He was also, very....devastating once he got angry.

Add that with my mother's emotional nature; the type that will cry and moan about how we all hate her and wanted her to suffer.

So I think while I got my 6ness from my father, it got refined and deepened by the way I reacted to my parents and wished for their.....care and at the same time, pleasures (food, toys).

I have been scolded, punished, blamed by both parents, and the fear and the guilt made me very aware.
 

pinkgraffiti

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Mar 20, 2011
Messages
1,485
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ENFP
Enneagram
748
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
yeah. i have an ENFJ mum 2wsomething and INTJ father 5w6 probably. I felt a lot of control and determination, both being judgers. That was the main thing. From my mom I felt suppression of my own feelings (her being Fe-dom). from my father i felt aggression and precision. maybe that lead me to be an ENFP.
 

small.wonder

So she did.
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
965
Enneagram
4w5
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sx/so
[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Re, the parent types thread: I think it's fascinating that your parents sound so similar to mine, yet we are such opposite types (with much commonality, I must acknowledge though). The only difference is that my Dad is ISTP and doesn't really acknowledge God (he kind of is his own god). Also, my Mom is ESFP but meets the description you gave of your Mom pretty well.

I'm sorry you had religiosity so stuffed down your throat, that is not okay and not what God desires for us. He wants us to choose a relationship with him willingly, hence free will. Anyone who says otherwise is a total hypocrite, and is choosing to live under the Law that Christ's blood has satisfied and freed us from.

I know you've said in the past you aren't super into the Enneagram, but I think you may have a 4 fix. ;)
 

mintleaf

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
499
Enneagram
4/5
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
My mom's an ESFJ 2w1 (sp/so or social-first) and my dad's an INFJ 5w6 so/sp (so>>>>sp). They were/are very attentive and affirming, for the most part. Both in Christian ministry. What they share is a lack of attention to their own feelings and instincts. My mom denies her needs, and my dad minimizes his; my mom's get buried under over-involvement with others, while my dad's are overshadowed by intellectually engaging projects (always meant to "serve the common good" -- obvious 1 fix). I think seeing my parents get taken advantage of so much has reinforced the importance I've always placed on personal boundaries and emotional awareness. I'm probably just as people-oriented as they are, but I have less interest in group engagement and compliance to conventions (so-2, phobic so-6 wing). I don't think either of those things are inherently bad. They just don't work for me. I realize this all might sound critical, but I really do admire and love them both... I'd like to be much more politically and socially involved and I'm glad for the examples they've set for me.

There are major differences between so/sp and sp/so 5s, let me tell you. (In our case, it's compounded by / mixed up in INFJ/INFP stuff.) I remember asking my dad when I was probably 8 why he was so formal -- why he used such a different register in public than with us kids. It's always seemed so artificial and cold to me; I don't want to say that I'm any more "authentic", but I do see myself as being warmer and more direct. His manner of speaking reminds me of Obama's. Can't listen to so/sp compliance types talk for long in public settings, it's so grating to me. I also see him as being more decisive and assertive (at this phase of his life, at least) in social situations. He feels more pressure to come across as knowledgeable and competent. Whereas I'm content to sit back and take as long as I want to process things and reach conclusions, even if it doesn't reflect that well on me. (And isn't very helpful.) My dad's connection to so-8 has really strengthened in the past few years.

Got a little off-track, sorry. So, my brother was born three years after me, and his disabilities have been apparent since I was 5 or 6. He has severe cognitive problems, had serious sensory issues (i.e. couldn't feel pain) in early childhood, and had dozens of seizures every day from late 2006 - early 2012. I've definitely always minimized/hidden my needs out of sensitivity to all that my parents have had to deal with. Also, my brother is most likely an ESFP 7w6. Being very uninhibited, the whole gluttony thing has always been obvious... He wants constant stimulation, and if he doesn't get what he wants, he will react with emotional and physical violence. He can be extremely friendly and loves meeting new people, but he's far from empathetic. I don't completely understand how I've dealt with this as a 5, but as an Fi-dom, you can understand how it's been rough on me. (I mean, obviously, it'd be rough on anyone. But you know what I mean.) I guess it's made me more giving and sensitive to others' feelings; I feel like I need to compensate, especially with my parents, for his selfishness. I'm without a doubt a sp-5, but I don't relate that much to the material stinginess often attributed the type. The dimensions of my avarice are much more interpersonal/spatial? than material.

My mom's emotional expressiveness and involvement has often felt like too much for as long as I can remember. Probably made me more withdrawn, to be honest. I think it has a lot to do with Fe v Fi too. Might explain more later.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
[MENTION=20955]johnnyyukon[/MENTION] Re, the parent types thread: I think it's fascinating that your parents sound so similar to mine, yet we are such opposite types (with much commonality, I must acknowledge though). The only difference is that my Dad is ISTP and doesn't really acknowledge God (he kind of is his own god). Also, my Mom is ESFP but meets the description you gave of your Mom pretty well.

I'm sorry you had religiosity so stuffed down your throat, that is not okay and not what God desires for us. He wants us to choose a relationship with him willingly, hence free will. Anyone who says otherwise is a total hypocrite, and is choosing to live under the Law that Christ's blood has satisfied and freed us from.

I know you've said in the past you aren't super into the Enneagram, but I think you may have a 4 fix. ;)

Well I think parents can definitely have an effect on your personality, and behaviour, I think the core personality is pretty fixed. Just personality in general.

Like levels of independence (amongst many things) being largely determined by your upbringing and relationships. I'm very independent, and often times somewhat isolated, because I just learned to not rely on people (of course I do call people up when I need it now). That can be ok for some types, I think, but for me, it's a really bad combination because without a lot of stimulation from people, I become ungrounded.

Yeah, your mom and dad sound like they have similarities for sure. "loved me with money" ha, that's kind of what it was for me.

No worries about the religion stuff. And I agree, shoving it is only going to make that person cough it back up. It's more or less brainwashing at that intensity, IMO. (strangely I still pray sometimes, and find the Bible actually does have some wisdom).

To be fair, for the most part, my mom didn't obsess over religion near as much as my dad. Even today, she doesn't even bring it up. I don't think she agrees deep down, but she still accepts me.

The 4 huh? Sounds like they have issues with identity and significance and must be unique. Correct me if I'm wrong, and also like to hear what you mean if you feel like it (here or elsewhere). But I'm pretty confident with who I am. From what I read though, I definitely have phases of pity parties, ha, and wondering what the heck my purpose is, but when I'm healthy, I don't give those things much thought.

Interesting (and confusing sometimes!) though.

Kind of goes back to who one is at their core vs. their behavioural tendencies that were formed in their more vestal, childhood years.
 
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