How intelligent people end up in a cult

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

 

[Lark]

Yeah, I posted this video in my blog the other day when I saw it. I found it interesting especially because the cult leader is in the video -- he actually agreed to talk and comment on the collapse of his cult. I wish the documentary were longer.

But the angle you raise always interests me. I feel like my family was crazy dysfunctional because of my dad's alcoholism and my mom's inability to cope. I do have residual damage from growing up in that environment, but I never joined a cult like this. Some people seem to look for the external structure and need it, or they are missing something and wanting to find something that provides feelings of worth and substance (or even closeness / part of a community) which the cult can provide.

Some of the people seemed sincere in terms of being skeptical and then having some kind of experience that they decided validated the guru as a leader of spiritual truth... but you have to wonder about the phenomena of "spiritual faith" and these kind of transcendent experiences... like, are they truly evidence of spiritual truth or simply psychological experiences that people across the spectrum can have / other states of awareness and euphoria, regardless of the religious belief in question? But then it gets attributed to a specific religious system or set of truths?

Maslow's written some pretty good stuff about this if you're interested. I've read a lot of it because its a question I've wondered about and I dont believe that anyone has really demonstrated a monopoly on truth yet, some are just more nearly right than others.

 

[Lark]

Agreed. The entire initial question is naive and pandering, in an apologist sort of way to be honest. For starters, why wouldn't intelligent people be lulled into these situations? Cults work like any other abusive relationship. It doesn't start on the predication that to be intelligent (upper class, poor, tough etc) is to be immune. That's fallacy.

What happens is you're given rules and structure. You are given time or by condition accept these as normal because they MAKE SENSE. That's the first step. Then what happens is you're rewarded for that. Then you're chastised by going against it. Now you have normalcy. You know where to step and mistep.

Then - and here's the cult aspect kicking in, the initial rules change. They mutate. You are now told what you know is false by the very same person who explained the situation/belief to begin with. Then confusion creeps in and during this time, you're vulnerable and whomever is leading this manipulation (cult of personality) will infuse their own version of that initial truth with their own. Often there is violence or the threat of it.

All it takes to be seduced by a cult is a willingness not to question with a desire to live with integrity. It's f*cked up but perfect storms exist.

I remember meeting some guys who were scientologists when I was living in Dublin, fortunately for me that was a pretty incredibly good time in my life, I mean I've probably not been as happy since and before that, if you're looking for comparisons you'd need to be looking at the half remembered, and probably not too accurate, times in childhood everyone whose lucky can recall.

The line of questioning they employed if you were unhappy or going through a bad patch in life could have gotten you sucked in, the rest of the time, I doubt it, you'd be kind of wow, wait a minute, life is THAT bad, but like I say if you were on downer it would be a different story.

 

[Lord Lavender]

It is clear why some would want to join a cult. People who are more intellectually inclined can often feel isolated from their peer groups if they stand out too much in some way so to them a cult is like a fancy club of sorts in many ways and everyone regardless of if they have a IQ of 40 or 160 both have the universal human need to belong to something and people who deivate too much from the mean in some way can be rejected from more disparate social groups so a cult which has everyone on the same page can appeal a sense of security to those who feel isolated from mainstream society.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Maslow's written some pretty good stuff about this if you're interested. I've read a lot of it because its a question I've wondered about and I dont believe that anyone has really demonstrated a monopoly on truth yet, some are just more nearly right than others.

Maslows pyramid explains why people have a desire to start and join cults in many ways. I theroize that people who join cults are those who are trapped in the Safety and Belonging stages and cults will then keep them in line and control by offering those two needs but never allowing them to get to the top as that would mean they no longer need the cult to offer them the needs.

 

[Lark]

Yeah, I get that. I definitely feel an uneasiness when they kept saying how spiritually awakened they were. It's like a trigger word, you just know when it's used insincerely.

I agree with you that for certain people those will be trigger words but what gets me about all this is its sort of obvious, that's why the thread is begging so many questions, what if the same phenomenon is operating at a societal level and no one's perceiving it? Sure, it sounds like the realm of conspiracy theory, it doesnt need to be one of those whole, all embracing, explanation for everything though just the way certain ideas or thinking is covered in the news or how loaded questions or coverage is.

Surely, even when you agree with whatever it is, it ought to send alarm bells ringing when its covered in a certain way. Like propaganda or delivered with loaded questions or whatever.

 

[Lark]

Maslows pyramid explains why people have a desire to start and join cults in many ways. I theroize that people who join cults are those who are trapped in the Safety and Belonging stages and cults will then keep them in line and control by offering those two needs but never allowing them to get to the top as that would mean they no longer need the cult to offer them the needs.

The hierarchy of needs, the pyramid you mention, isnt the whole of Maslow, he wrote another book which I thought was better about self-actualising experiences, or possibly it was peak experiences, I'm not sure it was religious or spiritual awakenings stuff anyway.

 

[biohazard]

Surely, even when you agree with whatever it is, it ought to send alarm bells ringing when its covered in a certain way. Like propaganda or delivered with loaded questions or whatever.

It's pretty obvious as an outsider. And this is my exact point.

 

[great_bay]

You have to make up a lie that sounds tiny ish reasonable. Get people to join. Once people join, they'll be foolish enough not to leave if they find out the truth or buy into a lie in entire time.

 

[The Cat]

Everyone wants something...

 

[Poki]

Defining intelligence is very difficult.

Which is why we have marriam webster. To define all the things in the world we just cant explain what it is...such as "as".

 

[Mole]

Cults and Trance

Intelligence has nothing to do with it, rather it is the wish to be entranced.

We all long for the Garden of Eden, and we can enter the Garden as long as we are able to leave our intelligence at the door, and fully enter into the particular trance of the cult.

Yes, different cults have different trances, just as different cults have different gurus, and worship different Gods. So to enter the particular cult we must tune into the particular trance of the cult. And once we have tuned in we have no more trouble with our intelligence, as our intelligence is tuned out. It is not as though intelligent people join cults, it is more that those who long for entrancement join cults.

For instance, the ritual repetition of mbti induces a trance in our members, and they are quite impervious to reason, and resent being woken from their mbti trance.