[NF] How does Ne/Fi Work Together Vs. Fi/Ne

[highlander]

I read both books. I prefer Lenore Thompson, but I really did like Solitary Walker's book except for the INFJ profile which he apparently got lazy on. The advantage of Thompson is that you can actually get an idea as to how to use the knowledge whereas solitary walker's book is pure theory. So I forgive some of Lenore's inventiveness and star trek stories because of the practical orientation.

 

[INFtha14]

well said. but its at least equally important to look at SiTe vs TeSi, so talking only about NeFi vs FiNe doesent explain much when you compare enfp to infp. imo when you start looking at tertiary function the difference comes more clear, since enfp and infp both usually have reasonable good Ne and Fi, but infps usually have quite lower Te than enfps and enfps usually have quite much lower Si than infps.

how would you compare your TeSi vs SiTe?

^ This would be interesting to hear more of.

I noticed in first post it was said about the INFP feeling unstable with ENFPs Te task focus mode.

I don't know if this tells of every INFPs experience with tertiary Si but
I like to know where, what are some landmarks so I know what to expect without being overwhelmed by any surprises.
Applies to most everything heh. Trying to be more spontaneous though as it's the spice of life correct?

Well anyway. If we could dig into TeSi vs SiTe in ENFP vs INFP I do agree that I think we could see the distinction better.

 

[William K]

I don't know if this tells of every INFPs experience with tertiary Si but
I like to know where, what are some landmarks so I know what to expect without being overwhelmed by any surprises.
Applies to most everything heh. Trying to be more spontaneous though as it's the spice of life correct?

Yeah, I hate being surprised and I think slowly on my feet. So I need a default position/action that I can 'retreat' to if I can't come to a quick decision.

 

[Lady_X]

i think like skylights said when the pressure is on we need to get shit done...so i think we go from ne to te really quick without much fi or si self checking...i think infps have a lil fi si loop thing going on and it takes them a lot longer to act but when they do that course of action will be very well thought out...felt out...both practical and considerate.

 

[skylights]

I appreciate your perspective for sure, and I think there's something to what you're saying, but if we were talking about sources, I really would have to be paid to choose SolitaryWalker's word over Lenore Thomson's. Except I don't know if I really could do that either. Morals and such, j/k XD

The problem is that I've never heard him support anything written about MBTI except his own self-published book. Apparently everything else is "folk typology". It doesn't help that he's a passive-aggressive jerk. At least, his SolitaryWalker persona was.

i dunno much about solitary walker, have not read his book, but i think he has a useful wording of an opinion i share - i think most of her stuff in general is quite good, but i do reflect the sentiment that she makes leading with an extraverted (Perceiving) process sound a bit superficial.

i suspect the extraverted Perceiving function in a Ji dom will be less important when it comes to behavior - it will be more controlled by the dominant - while almost always it is my auxiliary that is reining me in. and sure, i'm pretty convincing when i'm excited about something - sometimes so much so that people mistake my brainstorming for a solidified opinion. could i persuade someone into buying something that was a rip off, or would only end up hurting them? yes, probably. i am a good manipulator of information, for better or for worse. and then i would spend an hour crying in my room because i felt so bad, or possibly going back to them, giving them their money, and taking the dumb thing back. so even though i could, i am highly unlikely to do so, because i know the internal consequences, which, unlike external consequences, i cannot escape.

similarly, ENTP's Ti orients them - and we know all ENPs are batshit crazy to a certain extent - but our Judging functions are what keep us on any consistent track. so yes, you can group all ENPs because we see similarly, but i think it's an incredibly important point that our introverted Judging process often shapes the nature of our behavior, even though our dominant gives us an large range of possibility. put an ENFP and ENTP in a room, and we will enjoy the range of topics discussed, and similar senses of humor, but quickly argue when it comes to matters of what should be done. an ISFP and INFP are less likely to argue such a thing, though their interests may be more different.

and that goes on to be reflected in other behavior as well - she says that all extraverts tend to jump quickly into things - well, yes and no. if something means little to me, then i will dive in. if it is very important, then i take a long time. and which category it falls into is up to my Judging process. plus, as a P, i am more spontaneous, yes, but also more hesitant and indecisive than an ExxJ. it's just that i seem less externally consistent because i am deciding how to act on a case-by-case internal Feeling basis.

So I forgive some of Lenore's inventiveness and star trek stories because of the practical orientation.

 

[KDude]

I need to read the chapter again, but from what I remember, it was flattering. More like, the Ne dominant typically had a lot charisma and ability to adjust/be open to many types of people. Not manipulative per se.

Even that though is not necessarily true, of course. I know ENPs are like the introverted extroverts in many cases. Or at least nervous in a way (for lack of a better word).

It doesn't help though that she used Slick Willy as an example. IFPs get.. if I recall, Fox Mulder and La Femme Nikita. We're just too cool, aren't we?

 

[Scott N Denver]

I need to read the chapter again, but from what I remember, it was flattering. More like, the Ne dominant typically had a lot charisma and ability to adjust/be open to many types of people. Not manipulative per se.

Even that though is not necessarily true, of course. I know ENPs are like the introverted extroverts in many cases. Or at least nervous in a way (for lack of a better word).

It doesn't help though that she used Slick Willy as an example. IFPs get.. if I recall, Fox Mulder and La Femme Nikita. We're just too cool, aren't we?

AND Mother Teresa! It's pretty hard to trump that!

 

[KDude]

and that goes on to be reflected in other behavior as well - she says that all extraverts tend to jump quickly into things - well, yes and no. if something means little to me, then i will dive in. if it is very important, then i take a long time. and which category it falls into is up to my Judging process. plus, as a P, i am more spontaneous, yes, but also more hesitant and indecisive than an ExxJ. it's just that i seem less externally consistent because i am deciding how to act on a case-by-case internal Feeling basis.

Good point. I should add that she starts off her chapters focusing on the dominant, both the positives and negatives, and then moving into how one grows with the auxiliary (among other things). Then after that, seperate ENFP or ENTP sections. She just sort of touches on general things in the early parts, which where I think the Clinton bit came from. She wouldn't deny anything you're saying here about Fi (that goes for her ESFP descriptions too).

Anyways, I don't want to derail too much about Thomson specifically.

 

[INFtha14]

Yeah, I hate being surprised and I think slowly on my feet. So I need a default position/action that I can 'retreat' to if I can't come to a quick decision.

Exactly. I have a hard improvising within a situation. Especially dealing with people as I don't quite understand what you say and don't say even though it should be obvious . On a default position I notice if I don't have one I freeze and put myself in an observer mode to see how I should do something/act. I feel bound and I get caught up in fear of not knowing what to do and seeking familarity of any kind helps in a time like that. Like with driving as a general example of how I tend to act this out if I go anywhere new I look for a street that is one I've been on so and thank goodness for google maps that actually allows you to see the physical layout itself for landmarks sake. But even then their are variable that may crop up. Trying to tell myself "sometimes I got to just try despite the unfamilarity".

.

 

[skylights]

Good point. I should add that she starts off her chapters focusing on the dominant, both the positives and negatives, and then moving into how one grows with the auxiliary (among other things). Then after that, seperate ENFP or ENTP sections. She just sort of touches on general things in the early parts, which where I think the Clinton bit came from. She wouldn't deny anything you're saying here about Fi (that goes for her ESFP descriptions too).

Anyways, I don't want to derail too much about Thomson specifically.

i know, i read it recently, i just think she was not quite as careful as she could have been in her ENP description... she made statements that i would add caveats to because they're very much dependent on which Judging process one uses. even then, i think she gets her Se and Ne mixed up a bit sometimes - kind of what solitary walker was getting at, because she thinks all extraverted processes operate in the present. i mean, she starts the book by saying that extraverts don't think before we act. i disagree. but, i suppose all of these claims are her prerogative if she's taken the time to write a whole book. overall i think she's quite excellent, but these little things bother me because they are misrepresenting me.


anyone else feel like they'd like to compile a book with the sections for each type made by people of that type? i feel like part of the reason we - at least, i - don't resonate with profiles is because someone of a vastly different type wrote them from a perspective that is more foreign from mine, and so they use language that sounds less familiar to me, even if their concepts are accurate. i have no idea what type thomson is, but i'd be willing to put money on her not being ENFP.

ps - one more difference... i think Ne doms are less resistant to derailing

 

[Southern Kross]

Apologies for going all meta, but is this not Fi making the decision that you're currently in the mood for taking in information? That Fi is the one who 'decided' that you have no interest in taking a moral position?

Of course, I only meant to demonstrate that FiNe enjoys exploring ideas without forming judgements also.

Lenore Thomson spends time talking about this in her book "Personality Type."

Pgs 374 and 375 deal with Fi in EFP's [with special focus on ENFPs], and Ne [or Se] for IFP's. I don't feel like quoting 2 pages of material here.

However, I will quote some other stuff. From pg 397: "Intuition doesn't push INFP's to act. It pushes therm to interpret: to see the potential of their thoughts and behaviors in terms of their ideals.
Because their ideals are wholistic, INFPs feel responsible not only for their actions but for their desire to take action, and they have a nearly karmic idea of balance. If they betray their ideals in either deed or feeling, they try to make restitution. When good things happen, they may worry about paying a price.
It's instructive to compare these types to ENFPs, who share the same two functions but understand life very differently. ENFPs rely on intuition to gauge the nature of an external context and feeling to recognize the values of the people in it. The best illustration of how this works is President Clinton's unrivaled ability to identify with an audience and sympathize with their aspirations. ENFPs generally believe that people will recognize their good intentions, even if their behaviors fall short of them.
INFPs approach reality form the other way around. Introverted feeling prompts them to hold unconditional human values, and they use intuition to figure out what that means in terms of their existential context. Asked whether he had ever had an extramarital affair, President Jimmy Carter said no but allowed that he had experienced "lust in his heart." This is a quintessential INFP perspective. Such types feel responsible for their hidden intentions, even if their behaviors exceed people's expectations."

This is interesting. Thanks for posting it.

 

[KDude]

It really makes me wonder where I fall actually. I do take a step back and sift through and I'm pushed to interpret/explore things like that. I feel responsible for my desires along with my actions, but I have my limits. Does that make me more Te/ENFP or Se/ISFP?

That said, Jimmy Carter was definitely a highly active person though.. far more than me (I mean, he did become President and create Habitat for Humanity). So I wonder what it means to say that Ne doesn't push someone to act.