[ISFP] help! Why can't I just chill about this?

[sarah]

Once I made the connection that appearing to be different people is an ISFP being genuine and not a facade I gained a whole other level of appreciation...

*sigh* It feels good to be understood.

Yet both of those types have weak Se, which seems to be a fundamental part of who you are. Sounds like these people are confusing abilty with preference, you seem to be a well developed individual with strengths right across the cognitve processes however I have no doubt that the isfp primary processes come most naturally to you. Well actually you shouldn't listen to what I think, or the others on the board because we don't know you, your isfp you probably only share a fraction of who you really are, so you know yourself far better than anyone else ever will.

You know, it was actually learning about the cognitive processes that finally helped me sort out my best fit type. Once I read about the difference between extraverted sensing and extraverted intuition, I realized I do Ne very badly, and only really "resort" to it when I feel hugely stressed out -- and usually what happens is that people laugh at my crazy beliefs about their underlying motives. So I kind of had to rule out the NFP types, since they excel at using Ne. From what I can tell, I rely on being able to notice options for action in the present moment instead.

Yeah I'm assuming they either don't have a very good grasp of MBTI or you just have a very good one and understand yourself more(obviously).

Well, I'm not qualified to administer the MBTI and I haven't gone to any of Dr Beebe's hugely expensive seminars on the cognitive processes, but I do read quite a lot on it -- by authors I respect. It's made a huge difference in my real life relationships. I'm very practical, in that if type theory didn't have a lot of relevance to my relationships with my family and friends TODAY, then I wouldn't bother with it.

ISFPs only share a tiny fraction of who they are!!!

You said it, sister! I really think many SFPs are good at finding ways of dealing with whatever's going on in the present moment while still being aware of what we value underneath it all. Other ISFPs can correct me if I'm wrong in generalizing here, but I'm guessing the reason we don't "seek" an identity is because we believe our identity is whatever we choose to be right here, right now, not what we used to be, or could be.

Sarah, how about this line?

I refuse to give free rent in my head to other people.

I am copying that out and taping it to my computer at home. Thank you for that, Anja! I need to remember that.


Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

Oh... I'm so sorry to hear about this. It really shouldn't have happened to you, but considering Keirsey's description of the SP temperament... are you really surprised?

Nope. You're right, many people here probably only use the Keirsey behaviorist method of identifying type. Actually, if they met me in person, they'd realize that the way I talk is not all nicely arranged and well-thought-out like the way I write. Writing styles can be pretty deceptive.

I must say, though, you're rather clever to have come up with this idea. I see your Ni works a little.

Oooo, I would love to take total credit for that, but I came to that conclusion after showing an ENFJ on another type discussion list a long detailed (and very good) definition of introverted feeling -- just introverted feeling, with no mention of intuition or temperament -- and she said it was almost impossible for her to separate that defintion from the Idealist temperament, but that seh realized she herself didn't "do" Fi very well. So I take it that much of the confusion is related to people not realizing that there's a big difference between the "values" of the Idealist NF temperament (searching for identity, meaning and significance, unity, empathic relationships, cooperative interaction, etc) and using introverted feeling to solidify in your mind you strongly believe "has ultimate value" regardless of place and time. People like me can definitely have strong feelings of knowing what's worth valuing regardless of place and time and still live out the SP temperamental values (aesthetics, action, performance with skill, variety, fraternal relationships, etc) much more strongly than the NF temperamental values.

Plus, it doesn't help that there's a lot of confusion between compassion and empathy. I don't do the latter very well, even though I think it's wonderful that some people are able to.

This IS in fact what most people think. I've typed myself as an INFJ, and most people think I'm an IxTJ. Most of what people stereotypically associate with NFs are, in fact, Fi traits. INFJs are often mistaken for NTs, because we have (according to the model) the weakest Fi out of the NF temperament (and the strongest Ti, which is what is stereotypically associated with the NT temperament).

Yes! I totally think you're right on that.

According that same model, ISFP is very likely to be mistaken for an Idealist such as INFP. ISTPs would also often be mistaken for INTPs, and so on.

It goes like this:

INFJ leans towards NT (Ni+Ti).
INTJ leans towards NF (Ni+Fi).
ISFP leans towards NF (Fi+Ni).
ISTP leans towards NT (Ti+Ni).

This is a consequence not only of stereotypes, but of tertiary function influence. These sorts of mistypes seem most consistently predictable for ISPs and INJs.

Does that make sense?

Yes!

Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

Sarah, you're one of the smartest and most interesting people on this forum. You be whoever you want to be. We need more SP's anyways.

Thanks!

You've always come across as ISFP to me. That's why I asked you, Jeffster and Mo and other ISFPs to help when I was wondering about my type.
You aren't ISFP anyway at the end of the day you're Sarah whose type within the MBTI theory is in your most humble opinion ISFP.
Over identifying with anything is a recipe for disaster.

Ooh, don't I know it! I made a complete idiot of myself on another type list once by going into an emotional frenzy over something stupid somebody said about my type. I was told quite firmly (but kindly) by several people that I needed to stop over-identifying with a "type" to the extent that I took everything that was ever written about it personally.

Anja's line reminded of this one
If someone offers you a gift and you refuse it who does the gift belong to?

Good point. Heh.

That's just because Kiersey is a very different system.

Sarah, you're awesome, so you can be any type you want to be.

(Fi-doms are always sneaky anyway.)

Sneakiness is part of our charm...


Thanks for the wakeup call, people! I needed to hear it said.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Totenkindly]

So I'm starting to get a couple of people on this list emailing me to question my type preferences now. It happened on another type discussion list I was on, and I managed to convince them that there are all different flavors of the same type. It's really kind of irritating, though.

Am I really that untypical of ISFPs? I mean, shoot, I'm stereotypical in that I'm an actual artist, I love nature, I love little kids, I'm a pacifist and an environmentalist, I try to make everything in my life as beautiful as possible, I move gracefully, I care tremendously about staying lithe and fit, I notice the world in great detail and love pleasurable sensations, and I care about improving the aesthetics of everything. This stuff is my passion.

Is it just because I speak my mind, and I was brought up in a family that expected their daughters not only to talk coherently but also write in complete sentences with correct grammar (my mother majored in English literature in college and worked as a copy editor)? Is it because I care about psychological type enough to have read a number of books on the subject? Is it because I have rather "highbrow" interests? Or because I have spiritual opinions (which I've never even mentioned on this list yet, so that can't be it!) Is it because people think introverted feeling = the NF temperament? Is it because I say I have an imagination? What's going on here?

I haven't really read a lot of your posts, Sarah, but I don't have any problems with the ISFP read.

What people don't seem to get is that Fi is very strong in ISFPs, not just INFPs. Honestly, since the S's tend to be more "tangible," I find the Fi even more obvious to me with them in my interactions because the INFPs can get rather ethereal and the Ne becomes more apparent. ISFPs might flex alot in terms of how things get done and seem easy-going, but their personal commitment to their values has been very intense when I've witnessed it and sometimes the judgment against those who violate them can be very strong.

Your whole middle paragraph sounds stereotypically ISFP. No problems with that.

Even after reading the third paragraph, I'm not sure why people would question it at the moment. You might have some non-stereotypical behavior but I'm not sure yet how it pans out.

 

["?"]

I know I should just chill out about all this type stuff, but it really bothers me that I can't just say I've discovered my best type fit and have that accepted by people. In fact, I feel angry and I don't know what to do. (My ISTJ sister hates most type descriptions of her type, as well as much of what's said about ISTJs online, but she seems to be able to just ignore the bad stuff... I envy that reasonable detatchment. I can't help not taking this stuff personally.)

We discussed this on 16types a couple of years ago and nothing has changed with people continuing to put people into boxes based on their limited knowledge of type. This says less about whether you are ISFP and more about the fact that people allow their prejudices to spill over even into type discussions. If I am sure about anyone knowing their type it would be you since I know that you did go through Berens’ process and as a result made that determination based on self-analysis. I can’t begin to count the times that someone considered me an intuitive type. I am sure that Pgats can say the same as well as others on this and other forums. You are ISFP not because I see it in you, but because you know yourself far better than people on this forum.

 

[Quinlan]

You said it, sister! I really think many SFPs are good at finding ways of dealing with whatever's going on in the present moment while still being aware of what we value underneath it all. Other ISFPs can correct me if I'm wrong in generalizing here, but I'm guessing the reason we don't "seek" an identity is because we believe our identity is whatever we choose to be right here, right now, not what we used to be, or could be.

Yes I have been thinking about this a lot lately in regards to trying to type ourselves and very much identify with it. Finding our type doesn't seem as straight forward as it is for other types because their sense of self seems more rigid and ongoing than ours.

 

[Firelie]

You're right. You shouldn't care.

It's just a label, like any other.

I compare it to a filing system. There's one filing cabinet I maintain at work for building services and maintenance (it's a real estate company) and when other companies send in information about their businesses, I get to file the papers away by the category. The other day I got a new flyer about a janitorial service company that also offered window cleaning and pressure washing. Now, there's a folder for janitorial services, and a folder for pressure washing & window services. I was torn between which to put it in. In the end I opted for the Janitorial folder, because that's what the company was, a janitorial company. I decided that the fact that they offered pressure washing services didn't make them a pressure washing company.

Moral of that incredibly boring story: So you offer more than your type regularly does...that doesn't mean you aren't your type. Some people just can't see past the pressure washing.

 

[Jeffster]

I really think many SFPs are good at finding ways of dealing with whatever's going on in the present moment while still being aware of what we value underneath it all. Other ISFPs can correct me if I'm wrong in generalizing here, but I'm guessing the reason we don't "seek" an identity is because we believe our identity is whatever we choose to be right here, right now, not what we used to be, or could be.

No correction necessary, I think that's about as good as it can possibly be put. I think I just teared up a bit in fact.

 

[Anja]

I am copying that out and taping it to my computer at home. Thank you for that, Anja! I need to remember that.


Sarah
ISFP

You're most welcome, Sarah. It works for me!

Another? I think Eleanor Roosevelt said it, "What other people think of me is none of my business."

The gift wolfy mentioned is a great one too. I feel pretty good when I allow people to keep their gifts of resentment and anger.

I, also, rarely miss one of your posts! Smart Girl!

 

[Sunshine]

You said it, sister! I really think many SFPs are good at finding ways of dealing with whatever's going on in the present moment while still being aware of what we value underneath it all. Other ISFPs can correct me if I'm wrong in generalizing here, but I'm guessing the reason we don't "seek" an identity is because we believe our identity is whatever we choose to be right here, right now, not what we used to be, or could be.

HUH?? I'm an enneagram 4. I don't understand not seeking an identity. Lol.
LOL! WAIT! You're a 4 too. Hmm. Well I do feel like my identity changes so I guess I know what you mean...it happens a lot that one day I'm one way...maybe a particular side of me is showing...and then another day I'm another way...another side showing or maybe another side coupled with another mood.

 

[sarah]

HUH?? I'm an enneagram 4. I don't understand not seeking an identity. Lol.
LOL! WAIT! You're a 4 too. Hmm. Well I do feel like my identity changes so I guess I know what you mean...it happens a lot that one day I'm one way...maybe a particular side of me is showing...and then another day I'm another way...another side showing or maybe another side coupled with another mood.

I see what you mean... Could be I'm not an enneagram type 4 then... (or it's possible I'm a 4 with a 3 wing?). To be honest, I was never quite certain where I fit best in the enneagram.

But I dunno.. I'm not convinced that I seek identity in the same way as the NFs do. I guess I always tried to reveal whatever I saw as being my identity -- my beliefs, my worldview, my feelings-- through my art and other ways of visual/physical expression, but that this ongoing revealing was free to change along with my revising or revisiting my opinions.

I could be wrong (please chime in here and correct me if I am, NFs) but from what I gather, identity-seeking for NFs is related to asking yourself "who am I ultimately", apart from here-and-now circumstances. Although this is an interesting question, I kind of feel like I get bogged down in abstractions -- like it's a rhetorical question that really doesn't have any answer no matter how much time you set aside to think about it. I'm much more comfortable asking myself what sort of impact I want to have on others right now, and how do I envision having good impact on others in the future...

I'm looking in my Berens book on temperament right now, and in the glossary, she writes in the NF column under Unique Identity: "Idealists [NFs] are forever in search of the answer to the question, 'Who am I?'" The SPs are said to value more the ability to make an impact: "Many of us want to have an impact, but the need for the Artisan [SP] to elicit an immediate response from others is stronger and more concrete (here and now) than for the rest of us. This need for impact also shows in the drive to actin to get a result."

I actually think I really appreciate the NFs wanting to know and display their true identity. Maybe that's why I'm so attracted to them (heck, my Better Half is one!) I guess for some reason I confidently think I know who I am -- it's who I am right here and now. The identity I had yesterday doesn't matter except that today I have a choice to act in ways that have a positive impact right now, and try to change a negative impact I may have had on others up until right now. My identity could change at any moment depending on the quality of the choices I make.

Do you see identity as more of a permanent thing? I LOVE how you describe different sides of your personality showing up under different circumstances, kind of like we're prisms that you can see different views through depending on the way you look at us, but that all the views are part of the same being. Probably one reason why many of us aren't easy to type at a glance.

Whoo! I'll have to think about this some more.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

You're right. You shouldn't care.

It's just a label, like any other.

I compare it to a filing system. There's one filing cabinet I maintain at work for building services and maintenance (it's a real estate company) and when other companies send in information about their businesses, I get to file the papers away by the category. The other day I got a new flyer about a janitorial service company that also offered window cleaning and pressure washing. Now, there's a folder for janitorial services, and a folder for pressure washing & window services. I was torn between which to put it in. In the end I opted for the Janitorial folder, because that's what the company was, a janitorial company. I decided that the fact that they offered pressure washing services didn't make them a pressure washing company.

Moral of that incredibly boring story: So you offer more than your type regularly does...that doesn't mean you aren't your type. Some people just can't see past the pressure washing.

Actually, your story makes me bow to your impressive use of extraverted thinking! Someday maybe I'll develop my inferior function to the point where I can get my desk "roughly organized", and then I'll feel like I really accomplished something.

I kind of think that many people would love to be able to speed-read others types (I guess that would be a satisfying accomplishment?), whereas I kind of doubt it's possible even for the type theorists.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[sarah]

No correction necessary, I think that's about as good as it can possibly be put. I think I just teared up a bit in fact.

I'm glad I was able to say something that meant something to others and not just me.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Jeffster]

I wonder if a higher percentage of ISFPs pick NFs as mates. All of my serious relationships have been. It's like we connect on the strong feeling level, and they bring out our more fantasy side or something. Of course, in my case, they all ended badly, so maybe it's not such a good idea.

 

[sarah]

I wonder if a higher percentage of ISFPs pick NFs as mates. All of my serious relationships have been. It's like we connect on the strong feeling level, and they bring out our more fantasy side or something. Of course, in my case, they all ended badly, so maybe it's not such a good idea.

I had, like, reeeally awful relationships with at least four NF guys when I was in college and grad school (I'm guessing that was their temperament) before finally finding the gem of a guy who apparently thinks I'm loveable despite my imperfections. Don't give up on the NFs! When they really love a person wholeheartedly, they are WONDERFUL at knowing just how to make you feel like you have great worth regardless of circumstances or superficial behavior. I the ones who don't let silly unattainable ideals prevent them from appreciating real flesh-and-blood human beings.

Either that or I was predestined to marry a guy who embodied both the faults and the virtues of the parent I least understood when I was a teenager. Mom's an INFJ and I married an ENFJ. Heh.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Quinlan]

I LOVE how you describe different sides of your personality showing up under different circumstances, kind of like we're prisms that you can see different views through depending on the way you look at us, but that all the views are part of the same being. Probably one reason why many of us aren't easy to type at a glance.

The more I read from you guys (other ISFPs) the more comfortable I feel with being myself, I agree completely.

 

[Bella]

The more I read from you guys (other ISFPs) the more comfortable I feel with being myself, I agree completely.

Ah, the wonder that is MBTIC! Who needs a therapist.

I'm inclined to send donations or at the very least, Xmas gifts......

 

[Quinlan]

Ah, the wonder that is MBTIC! Who needs a therapist.

Doesn't mean the other types don't do my head in...