HELP-plz. SEI-Fe or IEI

[Zhaylin]

I've taken the tests several times. My results have been both lol
Then, I explored more of the site and found Types - AIM | AIM

I read SEI first (SEI - AIM | AIM ), and thought: "yeah, that's a lot like me"
".... They are democratic by nature and not judging. The perception of the outside world is characterized by special ease, openness and mobility. Their curiosity is always extensive... They will deny any rigidity, over-regulation, conflicts, emotional instability and life hardship that last for too long... The purpose of this group is the creation and dissemination of new concepts of social development - “enlightenment”."

One phrase: I see everything, but don’t interfere
By Viktor Gulenko

1. Mediators are always friendly and amiable in communication with others. These types value their own comfort and convenience as well as others’. They are attentive and take care of their loved ones. In any group of people they prefer to take position of “golden middle”...

2. Mediators are emotional and internally sensitive. They will try to make others merry... They know how to negotiate something with people in the non-formal set-up. Mediators don’t like to be drawn into arguments or reviewing relationships, because they try to be in peace with everyone.

3. They try to hide their problems from others. Mediators demonstrate cheerfulness and optimism. They work in their own rhythm. Mediators won’t promise anything if they are not sure about the implementation of such act. They fear obsessive people who waste their time.

4. Mediators are productive when they work for themselves or for those people they are personally interested in. In other instances, they don’t overreach. They avoid any hard physical labor. Their work efforts are dependent on their mood. Mediators will try to evade necessary, but boring work."

Once it got to the box, the only Strength I could check is "Comfort". I'm unsure what's meant by the Motivation.
In Need of Improvement would be: Economics and Analytics. In What not to expect, I agree with all three as being like me:Business attitude, Effectiveness [to a point], Expediency.

But then I read IEI (IEI - AIM | AIM ) and It, is even more like me in many ways EXCEPT the synopsis at the beginning which I've omitted here.

"One phrase: Noble services to the society
By Viktor Gulenko

1. These types are dreamy... Lyricists are curious: they are not indifferent to anything new, unusual and beautiful. These types are persistent in requests if they are motivated by strong desire. They know when it is the right moment to approach someone. They can manage their time and time of others freely.

2. Lyricists are emotionally glamorous. They smile all the time, even when they need to say something unpleasant to others. They make impression on others with sometimes unexpected and even extravagant behavior and statements. They have a very good sense of humor. Lyricists know when or how to comfort or cheer up someone.

3. Appearance is their source of influence on people. If needed – they will dress up elegantly, even exquisitely. When they are relaxed they complain about poor life conditions. They appreciate others taking care of them, who’d listen to their stories about possible health issues and life conditions. It is difficult for Lyricist to refuse the habit of being comfortable.

4. Lyricists can be disorganized without strong leadership and guidance. It is hard for them to concentrate on one thing they have to do. They can be quite uneconomical and capricious: they are ready to spend their last money on something for their happiness.... They force themselves to be happy to drawn out the disturbing premonitions.."

I agree with the box more than with SEI:
"Strengths: Forecasting events, Forecasting perspectives, Feeling for people
In Need of Improvement: Economy, Understanding of profits
What not to expect: Behavior against their interest"

I'd even be interested in their career suggestion (Psychologist) unlike SEI.

Of special note: Anyone who has ever swung by the "What are you feeling" thread, knows I love to complain about this and that and of health.
But, when it comes to health, UNDERSTANDING is what I'm after (other than to just grumble lol). Don't give me a Tylenol because I have a headache. Tell me WHY I even got the headache in the first place.
If I am ACTUALLY unwell, though, I hide it. I don't like people fawning over me or being worried about me. I need everyone to be at peace and content with life.

SO, how much of all of this is Socionics and how much is my MBTI and Enneagram coming into play. (I'm an INFP and either a 952 or 945 9w1)

( [MENTION=35236]Rob[/MENTION]obit14 [MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION] just in case y'all haven't seen the page and perhaps it could help y'all too.)

 

[RadicalDoubt]

Based on your video questionaire, I am strongly inclined on saying SEI ove IEI; I thought you came across very strongly on the Si-Ne axis and, judging from the pattern of how I seem to be mistyping high Si users as Fi users in terms of socionics, I think SEI would probably be the better bet here.

ALSO what you highlighted in your relations to IEI seem to relate more to Fe as an information element/function as present within IEI rather than something connected to Ni or Ni-Fe as a combination:

They smile all the time, even when they need to say something unpleasant to others... Lyricists know when or how to comfort or cheer up someone.

I could see these applying to both SEI and IEI from what I have acquired thus far. Actually, for the most part, what you've highlighted in both descriptions sound as if they could be applied to both types through their connection with Fe.

I also wouldn't be so worried about the career selections either. IEI (and INFJ in general in the mbti) tends to be glorified as the ultimate "mystic" or "psychologist" because of their "superhuman" insight into the human psyche. I don't really see why SEI, a type interested and theoretically decent at providing comfort to others, wouldn't also be attracted/good at the career of psychologist.

Nonetheless, can you relate at all to these descriptions? I found them on Robobot's thread and though they were very insightful. If not, there may be more of a case for Ni:

Introverted sensing is focused on the subjective impression the stimulus or object gives. When a Si-user sees an object or gets a sensation from the outer world, he absorbs an impression of it, a subjective recollection, memory, or symbol of the object. Carl Jung said of Si that it is “guided by the intensity of the subjective sensation excited by the objective stimulus, but one that is apparently quite unpredictable and arbitrary. What will make an impression and what will not can never be seen in advance, and from the outside.”
It’s important to note that introverted sensing is not solely tied to past events. It also sees how the object or sensation can be used in the future. As Carl Jung said, “We could say that introverted sensation transmits an image which does not so much reproduce the object as spread over it the patina of age-old subjective experience and the shimmer of events still unborn. The bare sense impression develops in depth, reaching into the past and future, while extraverted sensation seizes on the momentary existence of things open to the light of day.”

(As a random aside, I'd be inclined to say 952 over 954, perhaps with a central 5w4 fix if you do relate a lot to 4; You don't seem triple withdrawn and you sort of have the positive energy I'd associate with a double positive outlook type. This is mostly vibe based though, so take it with your own discretion).

 

[Zhaylin]

Thank you, so much, [MENTION=34313]RadicalDoubt[/MENTION].
"ALSO what you highlighted in your relations to IEI seem to relate more to Fe as an information element/function as present within IEI rather than something connected to Ni or Ni-Fe as a combination"

Ahhh, perhaps I understand that subtype of SEI-Fe a little better now. Hmmm. So much more to think about.

That snippet from robobot is much too clinical for me to process. I have a hard time comprehending what is meant by pattern recognition (which is my "understanding" of how "subjective impression" is being used).
I have a hard time trusting my memory. If I have a gut reaction to something, I'll try to search my memory for a connection or reason for it. The connection is usually a memory of a feeling rather than an event or something more specific. But, I also know I don't give myself nearly enough credit and I tend to gloss over things I DO recall lol.

I'll have to look up some examples later once the brain fog clears and my errands are over.

The reason I cling so much to type 4 is:
"Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance [fear of getting life-long amnesia]
Key Motivations: ... to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."
They often see themselves as uniquely talented, possessing special, one-of-a-kind gifts, but also as uniquely disadvantaged or flawed. More than any other type, Fours are acutely aware of and focused on their personal differences and deficiencies.

Healthy Fours are honest with themselves: they own all of their feelings and can look at their motives, contradictions, and emotional conflicts without denying or whitewashing them. They may not necessarily like what they discover, but they do not try to rationalize their states, nor do they try to hide them from themselves or others. They are not afraid to see themselves “warts and all.” Healthy Fours are willing to reveal highly personal and potentially shameful things about themselves because they are determined to understand the truth of their experience—so that they can discover who they are and come to terms with their emotional history. This ability also enables Fours to endure suffering with a quiet strength. Their familiarity with their own darker nature makes it easier for them to process painful experiences that might overwhelm other types........."
(taken from Type Four — The Enneagram Institute )

When I was younger, I actually had magical thinking. I thought I was capable of telepathy, in which I could silently persuade others to adopt certain moods and behaviors (I didn't really know the term telepathy, though, and called them BC's or Brain Communications).
I also regularly wished for rescuers and tried to attract them into my life (if only through magical or wishful thinking lol)

It took me into my early 20's to break completely free from such weird beliefs, but if the Enneagram is a fixed thing, I can't help but feel connected.

I will look into wings some more.

**EDIT**
Oh yeah. About the sharing of deeply personal information... that's multifaceted. 1) is it helpful for someone else 2) self-knowledge 3) to scare people away lol.
I didn't really understand that I did #3 until fairly recently. I'd always grumble at myself "Why the heck did you reveal that? You're so friggin stupid. They'll never show their face again!" But, one day, then the nicer side of my brain replied "then they weren't worth getting to know. If they scare off so easily it's better to find out sooner rather than later."
I'm not one to put on a show or keep up appearances. What you see is what you get (while I am overly accommodating, and peace keeping, I don't lie about who I am).
I'd rather get the awkwardness out of the way early on.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I'm strongly inclined to type you as an S type, and SEI seems likely imo. Around the forums in general the contents of your conversations are more concrete, physical, and grounded than N in any way. The sensory details in the descriptions you write are very vivid. You seem to be on the Si-Ne axis. I would have a difficult time seeing you as an Ni base or any 4D N user.

I think your method or approach to typing yourself could be tweaked so that the process is much simpler as well. Description based typing is confusing and kind of Forer Effect-ish. Try going by the Model A / Information Metabolism Elements / Dimensionality.

Also, Kray had some good points.

 

[Zhaylin]

Thank you, [MENTION=36353]Hexcoder[/MENTION] . Ix suggested similar. I had to look up what the Forer Effect was... and then laugh. I've often complained that some things are so vague that it could apply to everyone...
which is why I read so much into everything. I want specific details, suggestions, and leads to more areas

Crud! I have to rush off to the Dr. I'll write more later...

 

[Zhaylin]

[MENTION=36353]Hexcoder[/MENTION] , I'm completely unfamiliar with "the Model A / Information Metabolism Elements / Dimensionality". Do you have any links or info? Is it basically just the raw definition of the cognitive functions?

I posted on robobot's thread something I've been thinking about a lot: that we have 2 dominant "selves", one private and one public. How can we find out which one is our lead function?
Privately: Keep myself to myself; keep myself entertained by binging shows, video games, research; craft items that are more functional than attractive; think about people in passing ("I wonder how so and so is doing", and then forget that I thought about them 5 minutes later)

Publicly: Keep the peace; mediate problems and advise those who ask; intuit the mood of the room and alleviate problems from the shadows; make small talk to keep people happy then disappear as quickly and gracefully as possible.

I always thought I preferred one on one conversations, but I have come to realize that I actually prefer at least 2 other people (but no more than 4). If I ask a few questions, most people will do all the talking without me needing to actually contribute much (other than a listening ear).

Now that my kids have grown up, I spend, at least, 85% of my life in solitude. I don't really have to consider my public self much any more... but, at the same time, I recognize it's a large part of who I am/was/can be.

 

[Mind Maverick]

@Zhaylin I'll get back to you on this soon, there's a lot to reply and I don't have time yet.

 

[Zhaylin]

No worries, [MENTION=36353]Hexcoder[/MENTION]. There’s no rush. A lot of my typing is just me thinking out loud lol

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I think you are ISFJ (SEI), 2 Sp/So.

 

[Zhaylin]

Thanks [MENTION=31348]Peter Deadpan[/MENTION]. So sorry I missed your reply for so long.
I strongly doubt the J, however (unless... ah yes, this is the socionics subforum lol so j=p in MBTI-speak?)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Thanks [MENTION=31348]Peter Deadpan[/MENTION]. So sorry I missed your reply for so long.
I strongly doubt the J, however (unless... ah yes, this is the socionics subforum lol so j=p in MBTI-speak?)

No, I mean I think you are ISFJ in MB. I see an awful lot of what I am interpreting as Si-Fe in your communication.

Si is often about enjoying a comfortable environment, so that could be how stereotypical "J-ness" could show up.

In reality, the J just means that you prefer extroverted judging (Fe or Te) over introverted judging (Fi or Ti). You "manage" the emotional well-being of others frequently on forum by offering support, encouragement, and understanding. I haven't seen enough from you to assess how you align your ethics (internally vs externally), but I'm pretty comfortable guessing that it's external (Fe).

You are very sensory in discussion. I don't think I've seen you use any metaphors (?) and you don't seem to paint images with words or explore tangential connections. You are very good at explaining things in concrete detail (your blog is basically storytelling your life experiences in SF fashion).

I'm not the world's most gifted typer of functions though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Zhaylin]

I thank you for trying anyhow <3 I'm terrible at all of the functions, so you're a better judge there in any event.
*shudders* J scares the dickens out of me I do not want to be tied down to lists and schedules. I need things to be open ended. I'm not the least bit tidy (well, unless you count my email).

Encouragement and support are very important to me because I've been shown so little throughout my life. I've also come to be more lenient and flexible in my personal values and beliefs because crap happened to shake up my world view.
I've ultimately come to accept that everyone is at a different stage of their own personal path, so where values clash, I greet them with patience or take a different fork in the road.

As for metaphors... I'm not intelligent enough to make good use of them. I forbade my self-consciousness their use when I was just 13 years old lol (which is when I started diving deeply into dream interpretation).
I doubt my intuition, so I prefer people talk to me plainly so there's no room for misinterpretation.

I also edit myself a lot. One ramble will lead to another train of thought, which leads to another until I forget what I was even going on about originally lol. I'll add the end of a story in the middle, realize what I did, then copy/paste it into its proper place.

I internalize everything. I have no tribe to speak of, save my children. I make excuses for everyone. My DIL and I constantly clash in that regard. "Why is he mean-mugging me?" she'll ask. I'll say, "He wasn't. The sun was in his eyes." Or *flips off a driver* "Idiot! He cut you off!" to which I always reply along the lines of: "Perhaps he just got a phone call that his wife has been rushed to the ER." and then she rolls her eyes at me lol.

Which is where all of this becomes even more confusing. How much is MBTI, how much is my E9 or do they sort of go hand in hand?

 

[Skittles]

You sound a lot more like an SEI, IEI's tend to sound more.. N, if that makes any sense.

 

[Zhaylin]

Thank you, [MENTION=3807]Skittles[/MENTION]
I no longer trust tests, in the least. I have no idea if I am any of the things I thought I should be rofl.
I was recently typed by a pro. I baffled her a little, but she landed on ISTJ. The entire chat room agreed with her (and there's rarely a a fast consensus among them )

Can an ISTJ even be an SEI? Especially of the -Fe variant?
(I must google now...)

 

[cascadeco]

Thank you, [MENTION=3807]Skittles[/MENTION]
I no longer trust tests, in the least. I have no idea if I am any of the things I thought I should be rofl.
I was recently typed by a pro. I baffled her a little, but she landed on ISTJ. The entire chat room agreed with her (and there's rarely a a fast consensus among them )

Can an ISTJ even be an SEI? Especially of the -Fe variant?
(I must google now...)

I can't comment on SEI / ISTJ combo, nor can I confirm or deny your typing of yourself, but I just wanted to say that how you extrovert your feelings and such online reminds me very much of my IStJ mother (she's not a strong T, though she's tested as either it or ISFJ and I'd select ISTJ *easily* over ISFJ for her) -- my mother, especially as she has aged, can be very sensitive when it comes to who she is / her values/ her feelings, and she can get especially worked up online (not saying you get 'worked up' -- just saying this might run counter to a lot of stereotypes of ISTJ's) --- and her feelings can be hurt easily. She doesn't come across in an Fe/FJ way at all, though. She just comes across --- online (NOT in real life, I don't think) -- as rather sensitive and somewhat forward in sharing her political views, what she cares about/values, what she finds terrible, and so on.

 

[Zhaylin]

Thanks to the Talking with Famous People community, and Host, I have my type down pat now- though I am not a typical ISTJ.

My sociotype, then, has to be SLI and the Si subtype. It fits well enough- as well as the Delta Quadra.
Socionics Types: SLI-ISTp Subtypes
Socionics Quadras: Delta

It's still a whole bunch of confusing stuff, but I think I'm finally (albeit slowly lol) getting a grasp of it all.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Thanks to the Talking with Famous People community, and Host, I have my type down pat now- though I am not a typical ISTJ.

My sociotype, then, has to be SLI and the Si subtype. It fits well enough- as well as the Delta Quadra.
Socionics Types: SLI-ISTp Subtypes
Socionics Quadras: Delta

It's still a whole bunch of confusing stuff, but I think I'm finally (albeit slowly lol) getting a grasp of it all.

:/
MBTI doesn't translate into Socionics. You can be one type in one system, and another in another.

 

[Drunkstein]

Of special note: Anyone who has ever swung by the "What are you feeling" thread, knows I love to complain about this and that and of health.
But, when it comes to health, UNDERSTANDING is what I'm after (other than to just grumble lol). Don't give me a Tylenol because I have a headache. Tell me WHY I even got the headache in the first place.
If I am ACTUALLY unwell, though, I hide it. I don't like people fawning over me or being worried about me. I need everyone to be at peace and content with life.
)

IEI, ok? Bye

 

[Drunkstein]

You sound a lot more like an SEI, IEI's tend to sound more.. N, if that makes any sense.

She sounds totally beta, what are you talking about?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

She sounds totally beta, what are you talking about?

I disagree and did not get that feeling at all reading her blog. It's very "this happened, then this happened, and this person said this, and this is what I thought about that". It's pretty concrete, typical SF stuff.

I am not particularly interested in the nitty gritty of Socionics though.