getting oriented via Ni

[Prometheus]

I'm amused with this site. It has a description of Ni that goes beyond the future oriented a-ha.

I'm particulary amused with this:

For example, whereas from an Extraverted Sensation perspective, you might feel very impressed upon meeting a man wearing a fancy Italian suit (signs call forth a natural response and need no interpretation); from an Ni perspective, you would consciously say to yourself that he's wearing an Italian suit and this is supposed to make you think he's wealthy or upper-class or really has his act together or something like that, and therefore is supposed to make you feel impressed (signs and what they mean are connected only arbitrarily). Whether he really does have his act together is a matter upon which you reserve judgement. Consequently you don't feel impressed. You merely note the expected interpretation as no less a part of your environment than the suit itself.

Without knowing the expected interpretations of a system--the way signs are interpreted within that system, and the expected responses that make the system work--you can't get oriented via Ni. The expected interpretations must be stabilized and clear to you. Then you can comment from an outside perspective, or see ways to respond to the signs that violate the system's assumptions, or simply know how to operate the thing. First you have to get "outside" it, then you can deal with it. The process of "getting outside it" can take a long time. As you identify expected interpretations, you find yourself uncovering ever more and more hidden assumptions, and you feel the need to distance yourself from those, too, before you get your hands dirty or draw a conclusion.

I have been trying to explain my lostness as a child for 3 months now. And I finally have a way to express it.
What do others INJ think about it?

 

[Kaveri]

Interesting indeed. I found this article intriguing: Introverted Intuition and the Meaning of Music

Am I interpretting totally wrong if I say that deconstruction is related to Ni?

To those who don't know what deconstruction means I would love to explain it but that would be very very difficult since it would be a desecration to try and define deconstruction.

But basically, deconstruction is reading in between the lines and in the margin. It is organizing meanings differently, it is unveiling what has been left unsaid. It can be used for political purposes, but at its purest it has no purpose, because it wants to find the truth rather than to aim at a goal. However, it can never find the original "truth", because there is none. There are better and worse ways of saying something, but no actual "original", "right", "best", "of highest value". Deconstruction takes place everywhere where there is interpretation. Deconstruction is subjective detachment. Deconstruction is an attitude.

At least that's how *I* understand deconstruction.

Another thought. Finding hidden meanings... that sounds like paranoia. Are Ni-ridden people typically prone to paranoia?

 

[Prometheus]

I'm not prone to paranoia, at least not particulary prone to it.
I haven't type most people I know, and I haven't got into an INJ yet, so I can't answer your question accurately, though.

 

[heart]

Another thought. Finding hidden meanings... that sounds like paranoia. Are Ni-ridden typically people prone to paranoia?

The world is full of hidden meanings and symbology and archetype. I don't think a person needs to be paranoid to see those things.

I do think that if a person unconsciously is picking up real hidden meanings but doesn't understand what is going on with that, may be led into paranoia, but with the Ni person it would be a very conscious picking up of hidden meanings.

 

[Athenian200]

I can be paranoid, and I do pick up a lot of hidden meanings. The thing about me though, is I don't so much believe that Ni sees hidden meanings because it deconstructs reality, but because you have to consciously use it to construct your representation of reality (or whatever else you want to represent internally), while most other types don't.

 

[Totenkindly]

I do think that if a person unconsciously is picking up real hidden meanings but doesn't understand what is going on with that, may be led into paranoia, but with the Ni person it would be a very conscious picking up of hidden meanings.

The type of paranoia we more commonly see is because of bad use of N, not because of good use. The healthy Ni person is more prone to see a multitude of meanings and understands them as such; the paranoid person usually is focusing on one meaning, with it being the most negative one, which is why they become so paranoid -- they cannot prioritize the most probable meaning of something.

But I suppose an N with a true psychological disorder (schizophrenia, etc.) would then not be able to wield their N properly. And I guess an unhealthy N in general could get paranoid... <still thinking as I go>

I will revisit this later. I'm not sure if I stated things here the way I'd like to. N's definitely can become paranoid. Maybe what I wanted to say is that an N often seems to become paranoid when a situation arises that they have learned to intuit one way (and usually are correct) but it turns out that the intuition is being incorrectly applied. People who have not used their N much seem to tend to be wildly speculative, rather than just misapplying a normal use of N.

Well.... my whole post stinks and feels half-baked. I will have to think more about this, but I'll leave it here as food for more discussion.

 

[Mycroft]

I can be paranoid, and I do pick up a lot of hidden meanings. The thing about me though, is I don't so much believe that Ni sees hidden meanings because it deconstructs reality, but because you have to consciously use it to construct your representation of reality (or whatever else you want to represent internally), while most other types don't.

You can't "use" Ni. It's one of the irrational (perceiving) functions.

 

[Prometheus]

N's Paranoia deserves a thread of its own.

 

[Athenian200]

You can't "use" Ni. It's one of the irrational (perceiving) functions.

Well, then, is your perception of Ni different from the one I put forth? Isn't it something that automatically analyzes things from different perspectives and finds hidden assumptions? Everyone seems to perceive it differently. Perhaps Ni isn't actually the same function for everyone who posesses it?

 

[nightning]

Well, then, is your perception of Ni different from the one I put forth? Isn't it something that automatically analyzes things from different perspectives and finds hidden assumptions? Everyone seems to perceive it differently. Perhaps Ni isn't actually the same function for everyone who posesses it?

How like an Ni dominant person to point out the differences in perception.

I think in terms of the normal definition of "using" in an active sense, Ni is unlikely to be a function can be readily applied. However in my experiences, you can most certain let Ni run wild to come up with answers. So in that sense... it is a semi-conscious process that can be applied indirectly?

Hmmm about Ni as a function, you cannot ever determine whether it is the same function for everyone. All you have are comparisons between your own experiences and what you observe/were told by others. Clearly info can be lost in translation. But if you think about it... even under the assumption that Ni works the same way for everyone... all of us have differing experience/knowledge. With different input, the same Ni process can generate completely different outputs. So really there's no reason in making life more complicated by saying Ni varies in people. Afterall if Ni can change... all the other functions can as well. With so many differences, you might as well not have a system of functions.

 

[Mycroft]

Well, then, is your perception of Ni different from the one I put forth? Isn't it something that automatically analyzes things from different perspectives and finds hidden assumptions? Everyone seems to perceive it differently. Perhaps Ni isn't actually the same function for everyone who posesses it?

The best description I've read of Ni/Ne is that they are "a lightning rod for the unconscious", and that Ni in particular is "close to the archetypes." Ni isn't something you can wield. As an INTJ, the thing I do consciously is think. When I'm having a problem I can't seem to work out, I sit back, clear my mind as much as I can, and wait for the answer to just come to me. When it does, in an instant I just know. I can retroactively outline step-by-step why what I've suddenly known is true, but I only bother with that when I have to explain why it's a good idea to someone else. (Incidentally, INTPs hate the "I just know" explanation.)

It's not something to use - you just have to clear your mind and let it do its thing. In that sense, I think of Ni as being powerful but unwieldy. All of the things that enter our mind of which our conscious mind is unaware are there waiting to be accessed, but we have to let Ni do it if and when it should.

 

[FDG]

You can't "use" Ni. It's one of the irrational (perceiving) functions.

I think usage is generally incapsulated in externalization of the perception's content. Basically, the explanation of the existence of a trend to another human being can be considered as "using" Ni; or, alternatively, guiding the said human being towards a given goal of his/her.

 

[Totenkindly]

The best description I've read of Ni/Ne is that they are "a lightning rod for the unconscious", and that Ni in particular is "close to the archetypes." Ni isn't something you can wield.

When I refer to "using" Ni, I generally mean "unleashing it" or something similar. (You are right that this is not the same as "using" a rational function like Thinking or Feeling.)

I can't make N go in specific directions, but I can choose to block it out or not let it run free.

 

[Athenian200]

So, in other words, Ni would be allowing your mind to run through every possibility you're aware of related to something, and then using some kind of judgment to filter it towards what you're searching for, finally seeming to settle on what is subjectively the best one? I've done something like that in certain situations.