Gender Identity and YOU!

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I consider myself pretty logical (see username), and I did well with subjects that are arbitrarily deemed "masculine" like math and science. But I find myself pretty indifferent to sports, especially watching them; although every now and then I'll try to watch some game as an attempt at social bonding. I have done hiking and camping and outdoorsy things, and I've enjoyed that; I can enjoy something more physically-oriented as long as it isn't taken too seriously. I'm pretty good at cooking when I'm not feeling lazy (which is often). I also can identify various types of flowers. I also have a sentimental side, particularly when it comes to songs or films; I don't mind something romantic if I consider it to be well-done. I may even have an idealistic side, which I am more protective of than anything else. Outside of that, my interests are generally atypical and most people of either sex find them alienating.

 

[Coriolis]

I consider myself pretty logical (see username), and I did well with subjects that are arbitrarily deemed "masculine" like math and science.

Logical? How about skillful???

 

[evilrubberduckie]

I'm feminine, not masculine. Definitely.


I don't like labeling peoples preference of clothing to be "feminine" or masculine" they are just sheets of fabric. I mean, I have a transgender friend F/M. From what I hear about him describing the way he Identifies is that he is a male. Masculine one. No doubt about it. But just because he likes to wear makeup from time to time, and like wearing frilly bra's on a blue moon. He doesn't feel like it makes him any less of a man.

I dont know. Society labels on what is "male" traits and "female"traits confuses me. So I don't let it tie me down.


I don't like labeling my willingness to experiment with the same gender as me making me "more masculine" my attraction to the male body is unfathomed, since I'm well renowned with my group of friends for my heterosexuality. But sexual preference doesn't correlate to identity. which is a common misconception.

 

[Crabs]

I am a cis-gender, heterosexual blobfish, though I find gender norms to be unnecessarily stifling. My personality is probably a bit androgynous by cultural standards, which makes me transcendental because I refuse to embrace these silly roles that society mandates.

 

[Hitoshi-San]

It's not very specific, sorry. I think because the idea is so large and complex, it's a difficult thing to ask about or describe.

I'm curious about gender roles in our culture and how much we truly feel that we fulfill those roles, how much we identify with ideas about our gender, how well we belong to that idea as a group, etc. Sexuality certainly plays a part, but I think it can be more expansive than that. For example, maybe some male feelers experience frustration with ideas about sensitivity in men, and it alienates them.

I guess that I'm prone to start thinking about these things because I don't really identify as feminine, but I don't identify as masculine, either. I took a rather official-looking test once and registered a 50/50 androgynous result. I don't physically appear androgynous, I don't think; I look female, and I'm glad my body is female because I'm sexually attracted to men, which makes life a little bit easier.

Other than that, though, sometimes I feel like my brain is 60/40 on the masculine side. There are so many preoccupations that women are supposed to have that I don't identify with at all, to the point of it being a sore spot: the desires to be a mother, to nurture others, to keep a family and home, to be soft and demure, etc. I get that this isn't the 1950s anymore, but as a childfree-by-choice individual...you'd be amazed how many people can't let this go. At least in the United States, where I grew up especially, people seem keen on promoting the idea that a lack of maternal hormones would indicate some kind of social or cultural failing.

Additionally, I feel very, very strange around groups of females more often than I do groups of men. If we were a tribe, I think I could provide physical and emotional strength, but socially, I'd be ostracized. I wouldn't make the cut. I don't mean to sound as though I don't like other women, as I do have female friends - only that my observations consistently register a tendency for women in groups to discuss and worry about things I could never bring myself to care about, things I really struggle to relate with. Something feels different, like I am what I am, and they are...other, I guess.

I often see very classically feminine icons attached to INFJ type descriptions, as well, but as I was recently telling [MENTION=22067]riva[/MENTION] - I think instead of Audrey Hepburn, a more accurate symbol for me might be Mad Max's Imperator Furiosa.

I remember when I first started posting here, people regularly mistook me for a dude. Anyway. I guess I would say that I'm sexually female, mentally somewhere in between. Genderless.

Oh, no, it's fine! I get what you mean now.

I would definitely think I look more like most people's idea of feminine. Long hair, curvy, I shave and wear makeup. As far as my mannerisms go, people have described me as both like a girly-girl and a tomboy. I've only known one or two other girls at sit in the "4-figure position" or with their legs all the way open at times, which are two things I notice dudes doing more often? I don't know if that's just my experience or something that actually is more common for one gender.

When I was younger, I was definitely a tomboy. I still had longer hair and preferred wearing skirts, but both of those were kind of more sensory than me really wanting to wear either (for some reason, I thought jeans were super uncomfortable & I was pretty picky with what headbands I would wear). But if you let me have stuff that's considered boyish like mud, fart jokes, and video games, I would be perfectly happy. On the other hand I was never opposed to lip gloss, stuffed animals and manicures.

I know people that are oh-so-against the mere idea of gender roles. I get not enforcing them, but if you fight so hard against them, wouldn't that be kind of like reversing them and therefore making the problem worse? Yeah, not all women belong in a kitchen or with kids and not all men belong being firefighters and police officers, but not all women should have to feel like they need to get the kinds of jobs they either weren't allowed to or were advised against having in the past, and men shouldn't feel the need to give those up.

Like, I like knowing that I can fend for myself, but if a man stepped in and helped me with something I would be grateful instead of screaming at them and telling them they're a sexist pile of trash.

I think it's very unnesessary that we try not to make gender roles or sexuality matter in society, but then some people get so crazy over it that they make mountains out of molehills and defeat the purpose of what they had been originally going for, ya know?

 

[Morpeko]

I don't consider myself to be particularly feminine or masculine. I definitely have aspects of both, and I like that about myself. When asked to identify my gender, I usually use "prefer not to say" or "neutral," although if the only two options are M or F, I will have to go for F, reluctantly.

I do feel very uncomfortable in the fact that I was born in a female body. I didn't mind so much being a young girl, and I guess the one thing I do like about my appearance is that I look young. At the same time, I think that makes me appear very vulnerable, which I don't like. Even worse, I sort of feel disgust when thinking about how feminine my body parts are, especially how petite I am. And I feel like barfing whenever I hear the words "woman" or "female" used in reference to me.

In terms of interests, I think I'm pretty neutral. And I'm totally fine with that. I love some things that society sees as feminine (baking/cooking, poetry) and some things society sees as masculine (martial arts, metal music) and I wouldn't trade any of my passions in for something else. And a lot of activities, both "girly" and "guyish," bore the fuck out of me, which is whatever.

I find it hard to gauge my personality. Online, I usually see people use "he" in reference to me before seeing any pictures of myself but that happens to a lot of people. I've been called a tomboy sometimes. But mostly, I don't like thinking of myself in terms of gender at all. And I don't like thinking of other people in terms of gender. I know it's important to some people though.

 

[Maou]

I feel very masculine, and like appearing masculine. I used to identify as trans 2 years ago, and its been a long journey of self acceptance for myself in that regard. I still kind of waver on the thought of gender identity, and what I want to really identify as. So I've been going as male, female, or non-binary... online at least. No way am I going to go out on that irl. The only person I've told is my significant other.

 

[RadicalDoubt]

I am an asexual woman probably (grossly repressed idiot is also possible haha, I've been considering I could be a closet lesbian recently). If you've ever watched "Ouran High School Host Club," my relationship with gender is almost identical to that of Haruhi, it's never been something I've connected deeply to myself but never something I've paid enough attention to to have a qualm with, hence I stick with my biological sex equaling my gender when asked. I won't deny that I've question gender identity on occasion, as a lot of my early artwork and writing pieces had a focus on either gender neutral characters, reversal of gender roles, and female leads who were either strongly masculine or very against being feminine or gendered body parts and tend to project most into my male characters, but don't seem to have dysphoria myself, though if I present too traditionally "femininely" (ie. wear dresses, makeup) I tend to become nauseous/dissociative. I think this is more related to a fear of being perceived as attractive in a sexual light than something like dysphoria. If I was suddenly stuck in anyone else' body, I don't think I'd run into issues, as I don't really connect much to my body in general as a source of identity, but I've never sought that reality. Other people have tended to question my gender identity more than I have though, as both my parents have outwardly asked if I'm trans and many others have politely asked my pronouns despite me being told that my face/build is notably feminine. In general, I tend to see myself more androgynously than I likely am by personality and appearance I think.

I feel rejected from my culture, but for reasons entirely unrelated to sex/gender. I'm pretty dull to culture in general, so while a lot of people in my position have typically felt a lot of pressure culturally due to gender specifically, I really haven't.

 

[Mole]

It is only recently in history that gender has become an identity issue, previously we weren't broken up into gender identities, instead we were broken up into social identities by class or occupation.

With the advent of the printing press in 1440 we dreamed of universal literacy, and so created free, secular, and compulsory universal education in prosperous societies, giving advent to the literate individual and individuation.

But then we invented the electric telegraph in 1840, followed by the telephone, the television, the wireless, and the net, giving advent to the new tribalism based on identity.

Traditional tribes establish their tribal identity by ritual warfare, where there was a great display of hostile feeling, but almost no one was killed, and very few injured, very much like politics in the USA today.

We need to establish our identity to know who we are, and today we need to establish our new tribal identity. And one tribe we can all belong to is the tribe of gender, it has many houses, and all we need to do is to find which house we live in, and which we don't. And then we know who we are.

 

[Lexicon]

These days there seems to be a lot of talk about gender identity, a subject I find extremely complex and just as fascinating.

While a lot of philosophical contemplation has already been exercised on the matter, I'm going the personal route: what does your gender identity mean to you? How do you identify yourself? If our abstract concepts range from "extremely feminine" to "extremely masculine," where do you fall on this spectrum? Does your sexuality play a big role for you? Do you feel accepted by your culture/environment, or perhaps a little invalidated? Feel free to involve type theory if you like.

I'm curious about the grey areas we see within ourselves.

Putting this under "General Psychology" because I feel like it's an even broader topic than sexuality; my apologies if this specific angle has been touched upon recently.

Inspired partially by these threads:
Gender Essentialism, Genderqueer theory and Transgender stuff

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sexuality-and-mature-topics/77617-sex-gender-explorer-sage-test.html

For initial context: I am a cisgender heterosexual female.

I’ll just copy/paste my thoughts on it from a previous conversation with a friend, as that basically sums up my thoughts on the matter:


I have trouble relating to gender identity in general, I think.

I don't 'feel like' a woman or a man--- I feel like a Me? I don’t really require a definition beyond that. Me has sex organs that were assigned as biologically female at birth, & their presence doesn’t feel any more 'wrong,' to me than any other body part, to my relief (I have enough noise in my head, so, the less the better). Thus, I identify as female, but I guess don't really directly associate my concept of Self with my sex organs, if that makes sense? And it's not wrong for others to do so, of course. And, I know it's more complex/nuanced than just that (my apologies if it sounds like I’m grossly oversimplifying; my thoughts don’t always fully translate well to language).

It's just never been something I fully related to or could articulate clearly one way or the other. I don’t feel super ‘connected’ to my body in general, most of the time.
I’m just a floating brain encased in meat & bone.



I have struggled with body image issues, & felt like there were things ugly or defective about my body (due to childhood abuse), but that's entirely different from feeling like you were born into the wrong body or that the world views you one way/imposes expectations upon you by default, that you can’t relate to. I won’t presume to know how that feels.

Overall, I guess I don't care how people perceive me or treat me based on my gender identity or sex (I’ve always been perceived as a combination of feminine & tomboy— which is fairly accurate, but I don’t always connect w/every assumption associated w/these— which, doesn’t bother me— perhaps it might if the societal perceptions/expectations differed a lot more/had a significant, objective impact on my life). However, I understand that it can be a serious, valid issue for a lot of other people, & that's probably a factor (among many) in the need for it to be more specifically defined. We’re social animals. We want to be accepted, understood. Seen.

That said, I never want to offend (I mean, people get beat up/killed over trying to be/express who they are). I don't ever want to step on or inadvertently dismiss that, simply because I don’t relate, so I try to be careful when I participate in discussions like this one.

 

[Mole]

Neither Physics, Chemistry, nor Biology, or mathematics are gendered. Any person can understand Physics etc. Thought is not gendered. Gender is a social construct which we use to establish our new tribal identity.

Gender is a constructed category, like astrology or mbti. The categories of astrology, mbti, and gender, don't actually exist in the physical world.

Gender, astrology, and mbti, depend on the suspension of disbelief. Gender, astrology, and mbti require the leap of faith.

 

[Lark]

Neither Physics, Chemistry, nor Biology, or mathematics are gendered. Any person can understand Physics etc. Thought is not gendered. Gender is a social construct which we use to establish our new tribal identity.

Gender is a constructed category, like astrology or mbti. The categories of astrology, mbti, and gender, don't actually exist in the physical world.

Gender, astrology, and mbti, depend on the suspension of disbelief. Gender, astrology, and mbti require the leap of faith.

Gender, maybe, sex I dont think is and its pretty much binary.

I can understand and fully empathize with anyone who thinks they should have been born another sex or who was intersexed at birth but I think most talk of changing your sex via surgery and medication is a mistake and disappoints the hopes of many people who pursue that. It may work for some people, which is fine, good for them.

I do think there needs to be some rebalancing of the "everything is a construct" or that there is no limit to what can or should be changed, its kind of worrying and in the UK at least, individuals who have undergone radical surgery only to later regret it have only been given some very little air time. Some pundits who have spoken out about pre-pubescent sex change producers have been labelled transphobic when they have fielded pretty fair questions about whether what has been interpreted as trans-sexuality may be same sex attraction.

When I say fair, I mean its a feasible or logical possibility, personally, I think the extent to which these topics have come to dominate public discourse is regrettable and disproportionate, often coming to dominate the thinking of individuals who've yet to undergo a complete physical maturation, let alone accompanying psychological development.

I think a lot of this has got to do with the objective playing out of democratic deficits in cultural and personal life. Excluded from any sort of structural or social participation or life the personal becomes the sole arena for change and influence and its all out of whack. I'm not saying that anyone and everyone should sublimate their personal conflicts or life challenges into public life, politics etc. (that's a whole other problem), there is a shocking imbalance I think though.

 

[Mole]

Gender, maybe, sex I dont think is and its pretty much binary.

I can understand and fully empathize with anyone who thinks they should have been born another sex or who was intersexed at birth but I think most talk of changing your sex via surgery and medication is a mistake and disappoints the hopes of many people who pursue that. It may work for some people, which is fine, good for them.

I do think there needs to be some rebalancing of the "everything is a construct" or that there is no limit to what can or should be changed, its kind of worrying and in the UK at least, individuals who have undergone radical surgery only to later regret it have only been given some very little air time. Some pundits who have spoken out about pre-pubescent sex change producers have been labelled transphobic when they have fielded pretty fair questions about whether what has been interpreted as trans-sexuality may be same sex attraction.

When I say fair, I mean its a feasible or logical possibility, personally, I think the extent to which these topics have come to dominate public discourse is regrettable and disproportionate, often coming to dominate the thinking of individuals who've yet to undergo a complete physical maturation, let alone accompanying psychological development.

I think a lot of this has got to do with the objective playing out of democratic deficits in cultural and personal life. Excluded from any sort of structural or social participation or life the personal becomes the sole arena for change and influence and its all out of whack. I'm not saying that anyone and everyone should sublimate their personal conflicts or life challenges into public life, politics etc. (that's a whole other problem), there is a shocking imbalance I think though.

Quite right, Lark, the attention we need to pay to liberal democratic politics is syphoned off to the latest popular cause. Jack Lang, the famous Premier of New South Wales used to lament the attention paid to sport instead of politics. This is understandable as politics is about power, and who does what to whom, and is often enough, less than edifying, so we seek surcease from politics in popular causes, sport, TV, and even family life. We can solve all of this simply by making you, Lark, President for life, and letting you get on with it. And certainly liberal democracy is the worst system of government, except for all the others.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm a moderately straight [AKA I prefer guys but there are grey edges] (trans)woman, who doesn't often even think of my past now aside from worries about legal issues as society is fighting over what kinds of rights that trans-identified people are supposed to have (which is another whole thread in itself). But I just mention it to say mostly that if society just fucked off and didn't get into people's business, while providing the same opportunities and rewards to people regardless of aspects of their biological sex and gender, we'd all be a lot happier and maybe not have to be so obsessive about it.

To try to say it as simply as I can, aside from the horrible intensity of gender dysphoria when I was younger, which consumed my waking moments (because everything was a slap in the face and felt "wrong" since so many pathways, relationships, and options in life seem to be flavored unfortunately by gender), and while my identity is female, I have both masculine and feminine qualities (as identified by society) to my personality, and so many years after the fact of making that leap to living my truth, I don't think about it much, I tend to dress somewhat androgynously at this point, and don't sit around thinking about my gender much at all, I realize, aside from all the political shit that is going on in the USA right now. I do have that typical intellectual/artsy battle between pragmatism and aesthetics as far as my wardrobe goes, but I'm also limited by my body shape and being overweight, so...

I think at this point I just feel like a woman who happened to be sterile, so I missed some experiences that most women have, as well as missing formative years growing up that I wish I had had; but pretty much my experience now seems similar to other women, and I wish I had had the opportunity and courage to make that change earlier in life.

But anyway, I identify both with people who have strong inclination to their gender as well as those who feel more androgynous. I have had both those kinds of experiences. I'm not really sure how to sift through it now. I clearly view myself as female who just had a male body growing up, it feels like a dream at this point (and my memories have changed where I think of myself as I am now in those experiences, although I very consciously aware I wasn't -- I just can't picture what I looked like). But it's just a small detail now to me, versus something causing a great intensity of pain regularly, pain that arose outside my intellect or consciousness, it just 'was' and now it's 'not' -- aside from the years I lost and experiences I missed. It's just weird having it be such a conscious thing for years, and now it's kind of a side thing that I only think about when external forces make me.

 

[Mole]

I am intellectual and in the intellect there is no male nor female, no gay or straight, no LGBTI. I can share my thought with anyone, whatever their sexual, religious, or political persuasion. I only draw the line at violence or the threat of violence.

 

[Polaris]

You would find, if you were to pull my pants down (which I hope you wouldn't) that I'm unambiguously a male, albeit one with a higher voice. Spiritually, though, I'm a bit more divided. I consider myself a male, plain and simple, and am perfectly happy with my gender, but, at the same time, I project a great deal of feminine energy (in terms of body language, personality, and general behavior) and don't really feel at all masculine.

 

[violet_crown]

I'm a cis het woman. I explored various forms of queerness in my twenties (gender queer and queerness in terms of more hetroflexible sexual preferences), but am pretty settled in the idea that I'm pretty vanilla in my sexual identity.

I think one of the challenges I've bumped into lately is that I have a definite preference for monogamy, as well. Maybe it's just that I spent most of the past ten years in Austin, but it seems that there's something sort of shocking about being a Millennials who is not into poly. It's nothing I'm caring to get on a soap box about, but the stability of monogamous relationships seems to work better for me.

 

[theablekingedgar]

there is more talk of gender identity these days as our understanding of human psychology has advanced. it's no conspiracy or agenda. just like in decades to come, we'd have a deeper understanding further.

I think sex is objective or a general spectrum of anatomical/behavioural male and female traits. Gender is clearly relative though.
I have no issue with these changes.
Trans people have always existed.
And the first gender transitions as we know them occurred in the 1950s.
It's just a means to make people happier.

I do think though that some of the far-left wokeists push things too far. Especially like that Riley Dennis babe on Youtube who defiantly said "it's transphobic to not date a trans person".lol. really? nice way to turn people to your agenda. Call them bigots!!

 

[theablekingedgar]

transphobia is fucking sick.