Free Speech Discussion

[Gunboat Diplomat]

No, it is a fine and useful matter of principle. Some people may view it as a matter of tact. I view it in the context of what one hopes to accomplish, and the likely consquences - intended and unintended - of one's action. A "wrong" action will be counterproductive or bring undesired consequences. It doesn't require that the statement itself be wrong. Sure - I may have the right to spout my opinions at anyone I meet, but what is to be gained? In a discussion forum such as this, I might learn something or provide others with food for thought, but then we are willing participants in the threads where we post. IRL or in other online spaces, we might alienate a potential ally, break a confidence and lose someone's trust, lay ourselves open to identity theft, or many other things, all by exercising our right essentially to be stupid. We all have the right to do many things that bring mostly harm to ourselves and others.

It's quite a utilitarian view . I actually agree with most of what you are saying. But it's only tangentially related to free speech. It's more like:

"Having the right to do something doesn't mean you should be stupid going about it."

Which is a fair point. But my problem is with people saying: you shouldn't be doing this because someone won't like it. And that someone may throw a tantrum and maybe even kill someone. And now, suddenly, it is my problem and my responsibility. Someone getting unhinged, because they didn't like my opinions is definitely a bad consequence. But a society afraid to defend its most cherished values is a pretty bad consequence as well, isn't it?

 

[Coriolis]

It's quite a utilitarian view . I actually agree with most of what you are saying. But it's only tangentially related to free speech. It's more like:

"Having the right to do something doesn't mean you should be stupid going about it."

Which is a fair point. But my problem is with people saying: you shouldn't be doing this because someone won't like it. And that someone may throw a tantrum and maybe even kill someone. And now, suddenly, it is my problem and my responsibility. Someone getting unhinged, because they didn't like my opinions is definitely a bad consequence. But a society afraid to defend its most cherished values is a pretty bad consequence as well, isn't it?

What I wrote, specifically, was that having the right to do something didn't automatically make it the right thing to do. Obviously this applies across the board to everything we do, with speech being just one subset of that. I did not say the highlighted, to which you are objecting. Still, it is worth considering how others might react to what we say, from that same utilitarian perspective I described. We might have a right, for instance, to tell our boss exactly why we think she is doing a bad job, but if we suspect she might react by firing us, we should be prepared for that possibility, or rethink what we plan to say.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

What I wrote, specifically, was that having the right to do something didn't automatically make it the right thing to do. Obviously this applies across the board to everything we do, with speech being just one subset of that. I did not say the highlighted, to which you are objecting. Still, it is worth considering how others might react to what we say, from that same utilitarian perspective I described. We might have a right, for instance, to tell our boss exactly why we think she is doing a bad job, but if we suspect she might react by firing us, we should be prepared for that possibility, or rethink what we plan to say.

Yes, and I didn't mean to say that you had said that. But some people, including top politicians, do say that. And we should be cognisant of that and where it may lead.

 

[Red Memories]

I always see it this way.

You have a right to your wrong opinion.

Okay, in a more serious tone, everyone is entitled to speak their mind, but remember the opposing side has a right to disagree and speak negatively back. I think many people forget the "someone can disagree with you without a shitstorm" part.

 

[Poki]

Freedom of speech is silenced day in and day out. Violence abusive people stop freedom of speech from people who do not do anything to incite the abuse using everday normal people. This is not a political thing. I see conservatives do it to conservatives, liberals do it to liberals.

People dont realize at the end of the day, irregardless of laws, irregardless of constitunional rights, it will happen. The best you can do if you want to be heard is learn how to speak in a manner that others will listen. To do otherswise is shooting yourself in the foot irregardless if its lawful or not.

Freedom is an illusion, the person who knows how to work with the world the best has the most freedom. Freedom from unwanted effects, freedom from unwanted retaliatiin, etc. Look at Trump, his hands are tied and isnt free to do much of anything because who he is and the uproar he causes. He faces consequences left and right any sane person wouldnt even have to deal with.

Free speech means i can create an oped and publish it without being thrown in jail. Free speech means i dont face prosecutiin from a government because i dont agree. Trump is the opposite of free speech, he pushes consequences and judgement left and right. He pushes to silence press while holding the highest government office. He doesnt understand what freedom of speech is because he hates the consequences of it.

I feel bad for the peaceful liberal and trump protesters fighting a view that the violent side of each perpetrate. The stupid thing is that the peaceful protesters slam the opposite side peaceful protesters left and right further pushing this divide.

United we stand, divided we fall. We all want free speech and protest. The extremes are in control right though, and i am not referring to just liberal or just conservative...its both sides.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Let's talk about opposing someone's speech while still respecting their rights and dignity. Basically, opposing what someone says while still respecting their right to say it. I'm interested in thoughts regarding how you'd go about this and also examples. Do you feel this is something you do well or at all? Do you aim for it in your interactions with others and in your politics? I'm also interested in discussion centered around the differences between thought, speech, and action.

I'm assuming everyone believes unconditionally in freedom of thought, and I'm assuming everyone believes that action should be protected and limited by law. What are your thoughts on freedom of speech? Do you view it as an unconditional right? If you think there should be restrictions, what sort of restrictions and why? Do you think restrictions violate human rights on a fundamental level? Do you think restrictions support a type of thought policing?

Anything else related to the topic is welcome but I put this in the philosophy section instead of politics so it wouldn't turn into a shitfest.

I don't think it should be that difficult for any responsible adult to do. If you don't know how to disagree with someone without respecting their rights and dignity, then you don't shouldn't be able to interact with anyone who's opinion differs from you. Do you really want that? The key is understanding that all opinions are ultimately subjective, this will allow you to have understanding for, and maybe even the ability to learn from, an opinion that differs from yours. To automatically go straight from disagreeing with something someone says to outright disrespecting their rights and dignity is just childish.

 

[michellejames73gq]

Free speech means i can create an oped and publish it without being thrown in jail. Free speech means i dont face prosecutiin from a government because i dont agree. Trump is the opposite of free speech, he pushes consequences and judgement left and right. He pushes to silence press while holding the highest government office. He doesnt understand what freedom of speech is because he hates the consequences of it.

I agree with every word of yours. But, I am working now, in 2022, as a school psychologist, and it looks like I am going to get fired because I said the truth to the students. What a country..