[NT] Female NT's: Are relationships a challenge?

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I would say the second is aggravating, but also has a necessary purpose, it just depends on whether the criticism is true or not and if it needs to be fixed with immediacy.

 

[Uytuun]

The first one often has the word 'constructive' prepended and I can't blame a person for using that. It's the second one that will drive anyone crazy.

Yup, that's what I was going to say, constructive. I'd say (1) is more NT than (2) is.

 

[runvardh]

Yup, that's what I was going to say, constructive. I'd say (1) is more NT than (2) is.

Healthier NT, yeah. Not that I can say much since I use 2 more often than I like.

That said, of the two NT women I tried getting close to, I ran from the first out of immature unhealthy fear (more love than I was expecting), the other just didn't see me that way. One situation squarely my fault, the other no body's fault.

 

[Tallulah]

I'm very, very live-and-let-live. That's why compatibility on the important stuff is crucial right from the start. I'm not out to find someone I consider "hot" and then proceed to change everything I don't like about them. I'm looking for someone I can respect, who complements me without driving me nuts, and who is an adult about things--meaning not wanting to be the star of the show, not being passive-aggressive, not being a martyr, not expecting to be waited on. If that stuff is in place, the little stuff that I may not have thought I wanted is just part of the package and is more easily accommodated.

I've often thought there was an important distinction between wanting someone to change who they are, and the general adaptation one does to accommodate the person you care about. Too many people confuse "who they are" with selfish or prickish behavior. I'm an introvert, and I'm independent. I'm not suddenly going to stop needing alone time or suddenly account for every second of my day. But I'm also not going to say, "I don't like group activities EVER, and sometimes you won't know where I am and you should deal with it, because that's who I am, baby!" If my partner wants to go out sometimes and I would rather stay home all the time, it would be unfair of me to cling to my preferences and never, ever go out. It's an accommodation of someone you love, not a controlling device. However, I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I was with someone I was wildly incompatible with in those areas. I wouldn't be with a party animal or a clingy person.

I say all that to say this: I think if you have assessed general compatibility pretty early on, it'll be a lot easier to employ the "live and let live" strategy.

 

[Salomé]

I think there are also guys who like the idea of dating a hellcat, but they have the fantasy that the hellcat is a kitten around him. Thanks, Hollywood.

Oh, I don't think it's just Hollywood that's to blame. It's a fantasy as old as "all women secretly want to be dominated by ME!". Or "a lesbian is just a woman who hasn't had sex with ME yet".

If it's happened to the author a "million" times, maybe it's not the men she dates, but the fact she's the relationship Simon Cowell.

Simon Cowell does okay though. Funny, innit?

The problem is that these men are attracted to her for the very qualities that they then complain about. This is something I hear a lot of men say women do. Guess what? You guys do it too.

 

[Resonance]

I'm very, very live-and-let-live. That's why compatibility on the important stuff is crucial right from the start. I'm not out to find someone I consider "hot" and then proceed to change everything I don't like about them. I'm looking for someone I can respect, who complements me without driving me nuts, and who is an adult about things--meaning not wanting to be the star of the show, not being passive-aggressive, not being a martyr, not expecting to be waited on. If that stuff is in place, the little stuff that I may not have thought I wanted is just part of the package and is more easily accommodated.

I've often thought there was an important distinction between wanting someone to change who they are, and the general adaptation one does to accommodate the person you care about. Too many people confuse "who they are" with selfish or prickish behavior. I'm an introvert, and I'm independent. I'm not suddenly going to stop needing alone time or suddenly account for every second of my day. But I'm also not going to say, "I don't like group activities EVER, and sometimes you won't know where I am and you should deal with it, because that's who I am, baby!" If my partner wants to go out sometimes and I would rather stay home all the time, it would be unfair of me to cling to my preferences and never, ever go out. It's an accommodation of someone you love, not a controlling device. However, I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I was with someone I was wildly incompatible with in those areas. I wouldn't be with a party animal or a clingy person.

I say all that to say this: I think if you have assessed general compatibility pretty early on, it'll be a lot easier to employ the "live and let live" strategy.

Hm, I don't know. I've only been in one RL relationship, but many online ones... it always seems like I'm super accommodating at the beginning when I'm lovestruck, but then as stuff starts to get to be too much and I start to question things rationally about our relationship (and not just the philosophical ideas that they love me for debating with them) they realize 'oh... she'll never be my ideal' and give up. That or, they don't realize it, and I have to end it for their sake.

I guess I should be more assertive at the outset? I've been doing that lately...

 

[runvardh]

Hm, I don't know. I've only been in one RL relationship, but many online ones... it always seems like I'm super accommodating at the beginning when I'm lovestruck, but then as stuff starts to get to be too much and I start to question things rationally about our relationship (and not just the philosophical ideas that they love me for debating with them) they realize 'oh... she'll never be my ideal' and give up. That or, they don't realize it, and I have to end it for their sake.

I guess I should be more assertive at the outset? I've been doing that lately...

I've had similar issues as to after the stars are gone and I'm more myself I become scary; so I'm also pushing more of what I'm like to start with so they run before I get attached instead of after. It works, it just turns into longer stints of lonliness which you may be worried about less than I can be.

 

[Tallulah]

I don't know--I worry less about scaring people away than I worry about them putting on a good show and then turning into a different person altogether. I try to encourage conversations about the way they tend to be in relationships and their attitudes, etc. I look for maturity. But even after all that, people are still fickle and don't always know what they want until they have it, or don't know that they don't want it until they have it. And I can be that way, too. Overall, I think rare types are going to have a harder time finding a perfect match.

 

[runvardh]

I don't know--I worry less about scaring people away than I worry about them putting on a good show and then turning into a different person altogether. I try to encourage conversations about the way they tend to be in relationships and their attitudes, etc. I look for maturity. But even after all that, people are still fickle and don't always know what they want until they have it, or don't know that they don't want it until they have it. And I can be that way, too. Overall, I think rare types are going to have a harder time finding a perfect match.

I prefer being able to scare the wrong ones away, I just sometimes wonder if I go overboard and scare the right ones away too. ^^;;

 

[Tallulah]

I prefer being able to scare the wrong ones away, I just sometimes wonder if I go overboard and scare the right ones away too. ^^;;

Well, I would worry about that, too. It's one thing to be yourself, but another to amplify how you really are in an effort to scare off the wrong ones or test a potential mate. I mean, I understand it as a strategy, but I prefer to hang out and interact with someone for a while. I can usually tell how they react in certain situations and whether our personalities gel. I've had men want to "get it all out there" in the first couple of dates, and while I understand it, it kind of kills the romance for me. First of all, it's a date, not a job interview, and second of all, at that point, I don't know all the good stuff about you yet that's going to help me overlook the other stuff.

 

[runvardh]

Well, I would worry about that, too. It's one thing to be yourself, but another to amplify how you really are in an effort to scare off the wrong ones or test a potential mate. I mean, I understand it as a strategy, but I prefer to hang out and interact with someone for a while. I can usually tell how they react in certain situations and whether our personalities gel. I've had men want to "get it all out there" in the first couple of dates, and while I understand it, it kind of kills the romance for me. First of all, it's a date, not a job interview, and second of all, at that point, I don't know all the good stuff about you yet that's going to help me overlook the other stuff.

I just say what's on my mind. If the subject comes up I talk about it, if it doesn't come up, it doesn't come up until it looks like something should be said.

 

[Froody Blue Gem]

I really haven't had that many romantic relationships, the only one I really had didn't last very long. I had literally no experience before that, so I guess that I'm a late bloomer. There is a lot that goes into a relationship and because I had never had another one prior to it, a lot about it was alien to me, and I botched up a lot of the unspoken rules. Both components have to be working in synch, and a lot of communication is necessary. If you are a cruddy communicator, it goes downhill quickly. People may need a lot of growth and to find themselves to have a healthy working relationship. After it was over only then did I realize a lot of the ways I screwed up but in the moment, I really wasn't aware of what I was doing wrong.

I know how I want the ideal relationship to be, the rules of how it should go, but in the moment and actually being in one, I don't know squat. Connection is a key part of the relationship, I move very slowly, and the other person may move very quickly. There is a lot of gray area, when the right time to do or say things is.

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

Looking at my past relationships, maintaining a relationship is not a challenge for me. But finding a suitable partner is not that easy for me. There aren't many that crossed my path that I could fall in love with.
The moment I fall for someone, I really do. And speaking from my experiences, they do too - and they've showed me consistently to be committed to our relationship.

 

[Hermit of the Forest]

Relationships... what are those?

 

[Totenkindly]

i am kind of at a point where it's just easier not to even try.

I don't particularly like that, but I've been let down enough / had enough things that failed that it just seems likely any investment I make will never really go anywhere, so then I automatically just focus my energy on things with more reliable outcomes.

 

[I Tonya]

My god, yes.
If you're in the right place, finding a date is not the biggest problem (I discovered I'm a trap for nerds, apparently). The challenge is convincing myself to become emotionally close to anyone and letting down the "glass wall" that separates me from other people. Relationships are a big investment of time and energy I usually don't feel like doing.

If they pursue you would it change your opinion, or would you have to like them before they can have any affect on you?

 

[I Tonya]

In my experience, whether they pursue me or not makes no difference, as the actual problem is making me to feel anything in their regards. I don't want to sound vain or shallow, but last few months it has happened that they would really pursue me and I would just run away, or be annoyed at them. They would complain about me being cold, while I was trying to understand why I was like that and why couldn't I feel anything. I was also annoyed at myself because of that.

I really have to like them before they can have any affect on me, so when it happens I instantly become a 12 years old girl and lose any sign of rationality (so, that's the sign). I still don't understand exactly how to make it happen when it should, though. It just happens very rarely, so I wish I could just feel something more often.

Insert a decent title here
Last post I wrote there is a practical example of what happens when I'm caught in the limbo.

In all due respect "I would just run away" is hilarious.
I do relate somewhat but I'd directly tell them I don't care who has romantic feelings toward me. I mean especially given they become demanding and selfish thinking in how they can treat me (in revenge for not reciprocating their feelings). This overthinking would cause me too much stress to please them, so quick reassurance idgaf stops them.

The second part makes sense. Though, I'd pursue the one I'm interested in...and I usually don't even "feel" attracted enough to go after them.
" I wish I could just feel something more often." Lol, I hope for you too.=)

 

[Totenkindly]

But I usually feel like telling them would be too hurtful, or maybe I just don't have the balls. I don't know, saying out of nowhere "look, I don't care about you" when I literally gave no sign of emotional involvement is harder to me than just ghosting them. I'm not proud of this, of course.
They've never been revengeful for not reciprocating, just more clingy, I guess. When it happens, it's usually too late because I'd feel like my freedom was at risk.
I can't fall in the trap of emotional manipulation if I don't feel anything.

I see it as something you just develop over time when self-confidence builds and also self-assurance.

Nowadays I would just say, "Sorry, really, but I'm not interested." In fact, I have actually done that. It's not a fun thing but i don't see the point in beating around the bush and now I have the confidence to stick with my decision and handle any fallout.

But the "withdraw" approach is just a typical starting strategy for INTP (tied to enneagram 5 -- there's a ton of INTP 549's out there, and 5 and 4 and 9 are all "withdrawing" types... IOW, the most withdraw-focused type out there).

How I see it -- INTP has great faith in the impersonal case but has a hard time discerning one's own internal needs and desires, due to Ti. Fi doesn't have much problem with that, they seem typically tied into what they need. Typically INTP tries to make relationship decision early on in life based on the impersonal factors and then crunching out an answer -- regardless of the personal feelings, which are suspect by nature. Also, if information changes, the answer will changes -- but basically there is this guy whose feelings you will hurt and who is forcing you to make an emphatic final answer on whether you're interested. Ne is like "Well, what if I'm wrong?" Ti is like, "Well, maybe if I try it, I could change my mind... but he's making me give an answer NOW and generate closure." Meanwhile, if you're not feeling anything, the whole thing just ends up feeling like a trap that needs to be escaped.

And too like you said, it probably won't be clean -- the guy will want you to justify why you're saying no in a reasonable fashion, or he might be clingy rather than just going away to take care of himself independently, and it just feels like one of those things where you just need to get out ASAP in hopes that distance will send him off to deal with things on his own.

I just found it easier as i got older to draw more lines and stand my ground, partly in knowing what I actually need/want in a relationship and just also having more confidence that I can stand my ground without being sucked into something I don't want. I was always good at knowing what "made sense" to do based on data and impersonal understanding, but it took me a really long time to understand my own personal needs instead of just dismissing that part.

 

[Lexicon]

Not NT (I'm INFJ) - but from what I've observed of my INTP best friend of 10+yrs, yeah - relationships have unique challenges for her than I haven't observed consistently in women of Feeling types.

She's had the tendency to date men who seem easygoing, ie low maintenance. It often turns out that they aren't so much low maintenance as they are emotionally unavailable for one reason or another due to unchecked baggage. Even thinkers need a partner who can be emotionally healthy/present with them when applicable.

She doesn't do well with recognizing her own needs - particularly in the moment - which makes it more difficult to communicate these needs to her partner. She also analyzes into the ground and through Earth's core if her needs are even 'real' to begin with. Even when she has decided her feelings/needs/concerns are valid, she often sits on them for days/weeks, trying to construct the best way to broach the topic. Construct the perfect phrase. Often this leads to her casting it aside because she took too long to figure out the 'right' approach. She works out a million possible ways she could bring it up, trying to predict how the other party may respond. I tell her to stop having the conversation in her head and have it with her partner already. That's where the answers are.
She's been working on this, though, over the years.

She does have depression/anxiety, which likely exacerbates the analysis paralysis and the drive to dismiss her own needs.

Since picking up on social cues or emotional impressions/behavior patterns aren't her strongest suit, she has a tendency to miss red flags in her partners for awhile, as well. This is something she's been improving on, too.


I'm just thinking off the top of my head. May add more, later. Maybe I'll ask her directly if she has anything to contribute. I'm seeing her tomorrow.

 

[Aniaday]

Not sure if my past relationships qualify because of poor compatibility to begin with... but I found that they were difficult because of needs I were unable to fulfil. They look to me to make them feel better about themselves or boost their ego/social status, and if I dont care about that they become unhappy.

My most recent ex was very emotional, very needy and thought I was to spend all my every waking moment fixing his problems/insecurities (which were irreparable imo), making him feel better about himself or otherwise doting on him - essentially he needs a nurturing mommy-type to get over mommy issues and childhood trauma.

There was a loss of respect and care for him overtime and I was told I became callous, uncaring, stoic and insensitive. Which is legit.