[Type 5] Female 5w4s out there?

[tyonx]

Hello,

I have realized that most 5s are male, let alone 5w4s. As a female 5w4 I’m so curious to find another female 5w4 if there are any out there on this forum. I’d love to commune with you and wonder if you too find it is more socially “acceptable” to be a 5w4 when you’re male vs. female. I feel like until I met my partner and he embraced my uniqueness, I suffered greatly, seeing my essence as wrong or unacceptable. I’ve truly worked my way up from being a lowest level unhealthy 5 to a high level healthy 5. But I recognize I’m pretty darn unique.

Now I feel like I have more confidence and ownership in my temperament and behavior and my 5w4 is in full swing. Which I love. But I still have yet to meet someone like me (which is TOTALLY fine and I’d kinda prefer it that way, interpersonally - but online feels like a comfortable way to satiate my curiosity about this)

Cheers!

T

 

[Luminous]

I'm not a 5w4, but I want to welcome you to the forum anyway!

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it has its difficulties. There are some things that western culture expects of women, that don't necessarily align with the natural 5w4 demeanor. I think I can scan as too detached, and not enough of the social pleasantries, and maybe men expect people to laugh at their jokes but not necessarily have it go the other way, etc. I dunno. lots of things. I still have made many friends along the way who do appreciate me, it just sometimes flies in the face of expectation and what seems to be more easily accepted culturally. But I wouldn't be happy not being myself either, so....

 

[notmyapples]

I have an INTP friend who is a 5w4 female. I do think there is some disconnect when it comes to gender norms concerning this type, specifically that element of social detachment. They're a lot more artistic than I feel most INTPs are portrayed as and have a really strong sense of self which I don't think others give them credit for often. I think that strong sense of self can rub people the wrong way when combined with their social detachment, and when the gender is female that judgement is even harsher.

 

[tyonx]

I think it has its difficulties. There are some things that western culture expects of women, that don't necessarily align with the natural 5w4 demeanor. I think I can scan as too detached, and not enough of the social pleasantries, and maybe men expect people to laugh at their jokes but not necessarily have it go the other way, etc. I dunno. lots of things. I still have made many friends along the way who do appreciate me, it just sometimes flies in the face of expectation and what seems to be more easily accepted culturally. But I wouldn't be happy not being myself either, so....

So happy to meet you - I think because my parents did not see some of my 5w4ness as acceptable it was disciplined out of me - and through studying the enneagram I am finding myself relaxing into my true comfort zone

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not a 5w4, but I want to welcome you to the forum anyway!

Thank you! So happy to meet you and to be here!

 

[tyonx]

I have an INTP friend who is a 5w4 female. I do think there is some disconnect when it comes to gender norms concerning this type, specifically that element of social detachment. They're a lot more artistic than I feel most INTPs are portrayed as and have a really strong sense of self which I don't think others give them credit for often. I think that strong sense of self can rub people the wrong way when combined with their social detachment, and when the gender is female that judgement is even harsher.

oo yeah definitely - thanks for sharing this!

 

[Maou]

I have a 5 fix in my tritype.

 

[Froody Blue Gem]

I am certainly female and my core is 5w4 sp/so. Strong so second but definitely an sp-dom. Kind of goes with me being socially awkweird... In my expression and identity and how emotions manifest, I do have quite the strong 4 wing but it's harder to penetrate my emotional core than a 4 so a 4 core isn't so plausible...

I've considered it for my heart fix but 2 is probably a better fit. The sp varieties of 2 and 4 have some overlap but 2 and fe go hand and hand. I have a strong 9-fix but I identify with being an oddball in the world, needing to hoard knowledge, taking a sense of security in doing so, and even moreso when I get to talk about it, and I am not the biggest people person. Also don't like being treated as incompetent or getting more help than needed, I have been this way since a young age.

 

[Mellisa]

INTJ 5w4 hereeee

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I had a INTP 5w4 college at my previous job, very intelligent and interesting woman. She was a real professional with a great sense for art, we used to go to lunch together and talked about music and politics.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

Another 5w4, checking in

 

[ThoughtBubbles]

i think many can have this androgynous vibe to them. some choose to present masculinely. a lot of 5s have an odd relationship with gender

 

[Kanra Jest]

I like to think I'm half Female. Gender Dysphoria and all.

 

[Totenkindly]

i think many can have this androgynous vibe to them. some choose to present masculinely. a lot of 5s have an odd relationship with gender

It would be interesting to discuss. There are times when I like appearing very feminine but I also like focusing more on function rather than form. My brain is geared outside the physical so to speak. So I typically dress more androgynous-ly (jeans, t-shirts, sweatshirts), I use makeup but generally sparingly (I love eyeliner the most) because of the time and skill needed for it. I like jewelry but also hate to be overburdened with it. I usually wear sneakers or flats. I feel too female at times to fit in totally with guys but too guyish to not be an outlier at times with women. It really depends on who I am with -- definitely the more traditional masculines and feminines, I am not a good fit with.

I feel like one's nature/identity is inherent, yet gender expression is pretty fluid and doesn't have to be in a box. Everyone is an individual, yet we still have these two big boxes culturally people are always considering.

 

[homuncuwitch]

...raises hand quietly

I'm a female 5w4 sx/sp INTP'er... pleased to meet you wow... almost like finding a unicorn!

True to my 5 nature, writing about myself is yuck, but I know I love reading what other INTP-type females are up to, especially considering we're kinda rare. I've lived my whole life feeling weird and out of place so find it somewhat comforting to hear how other women find moving through the world (or locked in our houses, as the case may be) as a 5 or INTP. And so...

I'm a 45-year-old woman that left home at 15, moved to a big city (Toronto) and taught herself how to use computers by reading manuals --I have a weird obsession with reading technical manuals and getting lost in computers. Worked in IT in various capacities with the majority of that time working in web design and programming. I moved to Amsterdam on a whim when I was 21 and worked and lived there for 12 years before deciding to move back to Canada and change things up. Switched careers... something I tend to do... and after having a child at 36 picked up a camera and started a business that's blown up and has been paying my mortgage and supporting my son and I for the last 10 years. Despite loving what I do for the last 2 years have had a feeling that I want to move on and find a way to bring my life experience (throughout IT career and before suffered from various addictions and left home young, lived on streets etc) to be of service. In general, I lived my life in a selfish way --I did what I wanted to when I wanted to. I didn't want kids. Like, ever. Thought I would be too selfish to be a mother and frankly, I didn't feel I had a mothering bone to speak of... then I had one.. and wham. changed everything. He's hands down the best thing to have ever happened to me. I want to be a better person. I'm trying to be a better person. I want to be of service. I want to show up (so so so so hard for me) SO, after lots of therapy I discovered that I love connecting with people one on one, love hearing other people's stories, and so, with encouragement from my therapist, earlier this year I applied to University (had always been a dream --I'd quit high school when I left home at 15) and got in! In pursuit of my goal of someday being a psychotherapist, I'm working on my BA in Psych.

So, now I'm juggling mom'ing, business running and University'ing. Are those words? But loving every second. Could I just be a full-time academic, please? k thanks. I'm starting late in life but as I'm doing this statistics course I'm in I think... damnnn! I would have loved to pursue a phd someday or been involved with research, etc etc.. or even psychiatry. Where did all the time go?

My personality:

- More masculine interests and energy than most women.
- positive person but also cynical --if that makes sense?
- I tend to isolate in extreme ways.. I can go days without talking to other people with not a moment of loneliness, in fact, I get crazy excited when I know I'll have a weekend to myself. Trying to work on this because I've noticed being alone with intense introspection can cause a sort of distortion of thought.. I can get lost in my own thinking and my own worlds.
- Prefer "online" friends in weird, obscure gaming discords than real ones -though I'm working on this!
- tend to connect with people IRL one on one very easily but don't have the endurance to maintain friendships I often pull away and disconnect out of fear of not meeting the "friend" expectations of the other.
- find male company preferable to female, but working on this too.
- Obsessed with obscure podcasts like Very Bad Wizards <3
- love video games too much
- love escaping into books too much
- single out of choice.. trying to work up the energy to try dating again.. but honestly, it just seems like too much effort :|
- find showing my feelings hard
- can't listen to emotional music.. or even slow music because it triggers feelings --UGH. working on this big time. I've been in an elevator when some sappy, bad song is playing in the background and started tearing up... wtf.
- my taste in fashion/music/literature etc is kinda weird and dark.. and wide-ranging.. find it hard to find anyone with similar interests
- very politically incorrect, dark sense of humour
- love meme culture, though I recognize the toxic nature of it
- love being a mom - though defo not the typical mom.. have a very close relationship with my 9-year-old son --thank god I didn't have a girl! Am I right, fellow 5 ladies??
- love being alone too much
- trying to be a better human one day at a time

Okay, that was too much typing. Stopping now. Thanks for listening and don't hesitate to reach out if you ever want to chat

Shauna

 

[Luminous]

I'm a female 5w4 sx/sp INTP'er... pleased to meet you wow... almost like finding a unicorn!

True to my 5 nature, writing about myself is yuck, but I know I love reading what other INTP-type females are up to, especially considering we're kinda rare. I've lived my whole life feeling weird and out of place so find it somewhat comforting to hear how other women find moving through the world (or locked in our houses, as the case may be) as a 5 or INTP. And so...

I'm a 45-year-old woman that left home at 15, moved to a big city (Toronto) and taught herself how to use computers by reading manuals --I have a weird obsession with reading technical manuals and getting lost in computers. Worked in IT in various capacities with the majority of that time working in web design and programming. I moved to Amsterdam on a whim when I was 21 and worked and lived there for 12 years before deciding to move back to Canada and change things up. Switched careers... something I tend to do... and after having a child at 36 picked up a camera and started a business that's blown up and has been paying my mortgage and supporting my son and I for the last 10 years. Despite loving what I do for the last 2 years have had a feeling that I want to move on and find a way to bring my life experience (throughout IT career and before suffered from various addictions and left home young, lived on streets etc) to be of service. In general, I lived my life in a selfish way --I did what I wanted to when I wanted to. I didn't want kids. Like, ever. Thought I would be too selfish to be a mother and frankly, I didn't feel I had a mothering bone to speak of... then I had one.. and wham. changed everything. He's hands down the best thing to have ever happened to me. I want to be a better person. I'm trying to be a better person. I want to be of service. I want to show up (so so so so hard for me) SO, after lots of therapy I discovered that I love connecting with people one on one, love hearing other people's stories, and so, with encouragement from my therapist, earlier this year I applied to University (had always been a dream --I'd quit high school when I left home at 15) and got in! In pursuit of my goal of someday being a psychotherapist, I'm working on my BA in Psych.

So, now I'm juggling mom'ing, business running and University'ing. Are those words? But loving every second. Could I just be a full-time academic, please? k thanks. I'm starting late in life but as I'm doing this statistics course I'm in I think... damnnn! I would have loved to pursue a phd someday or been involved with research, etc etc.. or even psychiatry. Where did all the time go?

My personality:

- More masculine interests and energy than most women.
- positive person but also cynical --if that makes sense?
- I tend to isolate in extreme ways.. I can go days without talking to other people with not a moment of loneliness, in fact, I get crazy excited when I know I'll have a weekend to myself. Trying to work on this because I've noticed being alone with intense introspection can cause a sort of distortion of thought.. I can get lost in my own thinking and my own worlds.
- Prefer "online" friends in weird, obscure gaming discords than real ones -though I'm working on this!
- tend to connect with people IRL one on one very easily but don't have the endurance to maintain friendships I often pull away and disconnect out of fear of not meeting the "friend" expectations of the other.
- find male company preferable to female, but working on this too.
- Obsessed with obscure podcasts like Very Bad Wizards <3
- love video games too much
- love escaping into books too much
- single out of choice.. trying to work up the energy to try dating again.. but honestly, it just seems like too much effort :|
- find showing my feelings hard
- can't listen to emotional music.. or even slow music because it triggers feelings --UGH. working on this big time. I've been in an elevator when some sappy, bad song is playing in the background and started tearing up... wtf.
- my taste in fashion/music/literature etc is kinda weird and dark.. and wide-ranging.. find it hard to find anyone with similar interests
- very politically incorrect, dark sense of humour
- love meme culture, though I recognize the toxic nature of it
- love being a mom - though defo not the typical mom.. have a very close relationship with my 9-year-old son --thank god I didn't have a girl! Am I right, fellow 5 ladies??
- love being alone too much
- trying to be a better human one day at a time

Okay, that was too much typing. Stopping now. Thanks for listening and don't hesitate to reach out if you ever want to chat

Shauna

Welcome to the forum! Hope to see you post in other threads.

 

[Totenkindly]

yeah, I have three kids now in their early 20's. I wasn't sure how good of a parent I would be, before it all. Now I miss them terribly, even if it's hard for me to invest to drive to see them, they're at least 1.5 hours away (and I'm likewise not someone to intrude -- they have their own things going on). I'm glad I had children, even if at first I knew it was a big commitment and would eat into my "alone" time if I was to be a good parent. We all text, and my eldest (INxP) and I both share a love for stories (TV, books, film) so we watch stuff separately and talk about it with each other.

I think the energy investment thing is the most restrictive part of my life. I partly care, partly don't. IOW, as I get older and especially after having raised kids (which forced me to get close to people IRL), I wish I had a few IRL friendships of people I could spend time with. But I often find I just don't have the energy to maintain on an ongoing basis. That goes for friendships as well as dating (my marriage split up over ten years ago). After work ends (I'm in IT), I'm happy to spend my free time doing my own thing (which mostly includes keeping up with movies/books/TV, videogames, and writing... although I try to get out to walk and I really want to start hiking more again). As an example, this is a three-day weekend for me, but I didn't even consider making plans to hang out with people -- I'm not sure who I would talk to, and meanwhile I was just relieved to get three days to myself. I saw a movie yesterday and pretty much am just doing everything else I normally do; it's hot and I will probably spend today indoors, write up last week's session for our weekly DnD 5e game.

Dealing okay with emotions now is something I do good with. My Four wing is very strong. Along with writing, I got into music at a very very early age and started composing as a teen. It took me many years to deal with emotions properly IRL (and I still can seem detached to people even when I feel things inside), but music and art allowed me to experience depth of emotion in ways I couldn't afford IRL. I have always been kind of fascinated by it, and a sign of good art to me is something that both makes one think and also allows one to share an emotional experience deeply. If the experience it embodies is a "true" one, it should resonate in the audience and make them feel the same things. I don't tend to cry often at all over real-life experiences, but I do cry when experiencing sublime art.

I get the "positive but cynical" thing. I would probably use the word "skeptical" for myself. I challenge everything, and I see the worst-case scenario when I look at something, yet at the same time I have learned in life that you have to expect the worst but strive for the best. Everything has its challenges. Sometimes situations will be unfair and people will not be trustworthy, but often it's better to approach it as if you have agency to change it and/or succeed, otherwise you will never change it or succeed. I have to trust people, even if I suspect they could fail me on some level, if I want to build anything enduring. Also, in terms of defining my "positive" outlook, when I am dealt a crushing blow with something, I find I have about ten minutes of total despair inside where nothing looks plausible, then I start automatically thinking of ways around the obstacle and mentally testing them; I tend to see it as my Ti crunching how everything seemed dead-ended as it is, but then my Ne kicks in and starts exploring possibilities for changing the situation. I see myself as remarkably resilient in this regard; I have survived experiences I thought would be the end of me. I'm pretty realistic in my assessments but I don't stop trying; I typically look at how to reframe a situation so I can get around opposition.

I have friends of both genders and enjoy them all. My guy friends tends to be more the geek/tech type, my female friends run more of a gamut. I see value in different types of friends. I just am terrible at spending RL time with people. If I was married to someone or i lived with friends or next door to them, I'd spend much more time; but the organization necessary to arrange schedules and get together just feels so draining at this time in my life so I end up spending my time alone and doing my own thing.

 

[homuncuwitch]

I relate to so much of what you said, ttk.... right down to the 20 sided die

yeah, I have three kids now in their early 20's. I wasn't sure how good of a parent I would be, before it all. Now I miss them terribly, even if it's hard for me to invest to drive to see them, they're at least 1.5 hours away (and I'm likewise not someone to intrude -- they have their own things going on). I'm glad I had children, even if at first I knew it was a big commitment and would eat into my "alone" time if I was to be a good parent. We all text, and my eldest (INxP) and I both share a love for stories (TV, books, film) so we watch stuff separately and talk about it with each other.

Ugh. This is something I'm trying to prepare for. Felix is only 9 (a wonderful surprise late in my late-ish 30s) and we're very, very close...and I just can't imagine him being far from me at this point. I know that there will be a time in the not too distant future that he'll strike out on his own so I'm trying to be present and conscious of every single moment with him. In regards to kids and being forced to socialize because of them... I sometimes worry that I'm not social enough for him. He's far more outgoing than I, but at the same time he values alone time to recharge or he becomes very overstimulated.. but, I'm just so not the soccer mom that runs her kids to every event with play dates every weekend. Not that I want to be... but I sometimes worry that I'm not modeling optimum social behavior :| I just don't know how to be anyone but me.. and it feels so forced when I try to connect with the other parents. I usually have no idea what to say other than small-talk chit chat stuff which I don't excel at, unfortunately. For his 9th birthday last year he requested a sleepover with two close buddies rather than the big party I normally threw for him --obv I was delighted. HELL YEAH! but then, these 2 kids came over... and they were hellllions lol I remember thinking.. thank god Felix is mine.

I think the energy investment thing is the most restrictive part of my life. I partly care, partly don't. IOW, as I get older and especially after having raised kids (which forced me to get close to people IRL), I wish I had a few IRL friendships of people I could spend time with. But I often find I just don't have the energy to maintain on an ongoing basis. That goes for friendships as well as dating (my marriage split up over ten years ago). After work ends (I'm in IT), I'm happy to spend my free time doing my own thing (which mostly includes keeping up with movies/books/TV, videogames, and writing... although I try to get out to walk and I really want to start hiking more again). As an example, this is a three-day weekend for me, but I didn't even consider making plans to hang out with people -- I'm not sure who I would talk to, and meanwhile I was just relieved to get three days to myself. I saw a movie yesterday and pretty much am just doing everything else I normally do; it's hot and I will probably spend today indoors, write up last week's session for our weekly DnD 5e game.

I also feel you about the energy investment thing, however, it's only in the last 2 years that I've been able to even articulate it. I remember when Felix's Dad and I were together, his family would have huge family gatherings, family vacations together, unending weekend plans with family... and I was always so unbelievably overwhelmed by it. I love seeing family every now and then, but if every weekend involves hanging out with in-laws I become completely overwhelmed and emotionally drained --with guilt, the cherry on top for behaving so selfishly. It's only been through therapy that I realized I was constantly fighting against my true nature. Trying to be someone I was not.. trying to be whoever my partner needed me to be and at 43 I decided, enough. Now, I'm very firm about needing lots of time alone --Felix at home with me still counts as alone because he's part of home but when it comes to my family they know never to just "drop by" unannounced (something that sends me into a tailspin mentally) and we hang out or have a nice dinner once every month or so but more than that probs isn't going to happen and they're okay with that now. As to friends... that's what I'm struggling with the most. I have a best friend who's very similar to me as far as needing alone time and while we don't hang out IRL that often she's always there for me and vice versa. Love her. BUT, beyond that, the people who were "friends" before I've drifted away from, as I always do, and find it really hard to reach out and connect again. I always feel like it's presumptuous and selfish of me to retreat and then reach out whenever it's convenient for me... and so.. I don't reach out.

Dealing okay with emotions now is something I do good with. My Four wing is very strong. Along with writing, I got into music at a very very early age and started composing as a teen. It took me many years to deal with emotions properly IRL (and I still can seem detached to people even when I feel things inside), but music and art allowed me to experience depth of emotion in ways I couldn't afford IRL. I have always been kind of fascinated by it, and a sign of good art to me is something that both makes one think and also allows one to share an emotional experience deeply. If the experience it embodies is a "true" one, it should resonate in the audience and make them feel the same things. I don't tend to cry often at all over real-life experiences, but I do cry when experiencing sublime art.

I get this too. Music was always my refuge when I was young. Whether it was playing music or listening to it, it always seemed to be narrating the little movie constantly playing in my head. I didn't compose, I was atrocious at music theory, but I played. I played clarinet, sax, alto sax and eventually switched to percussion because we moved and the new school I attended was way behind the level I had been playing at so switched instruments to try something new

I cry almost exclusively when I'm alone and in weird moments. I almost never cry out of sadness or for myself... it's usually something that triggers it. It's usually in an empathetic moment where I'm relating to someone deeply (though never IRL), usually listening to a podcast or reading. I was listening to Chelsea Handler's new book earlier this week--she narrates it on Audible-- and there was a moment she describes her therapist handing her an orange.. a simple gesture, and I started bawling like a baby. In that moment I so related to Chelsea's feeling of vulnerability.. the feeling of always needing to be stoic and tough and never ask for help.. but deep, deep down wishing someone would actually see me underneath and reach out.. despite on the surface behaving as if help was the last thing I needed.

I also cry during very intense fight scenes in movies that involve a strong female char --Atomic Blonde for instance? I had a couple of moments watching that that had me choking up. It's a weird kind of cry... not sad... it's like a release? if that makes sense? I've also experienced the same thing while running! weird, but I'll take what I can get

Totally relate to the reframing and cynical thing. Even if I become extremely angry, if the other party cracks a joke I'm usually completely done I never hold grudges --probably to a fault... and find it very easy to reframe and let go. I can easily put myself in the other's shoes and get a feel for where they're coming from and at the end of the day it comes down to that energy thing --I literally don't have the energy to hold grudges or be angry and hurt. It's too exhausting! So, while I'm a trusting person in general, I think subconsciously there's a part of me that still worries that I don't fit in.. or that I'll disappoint people or that I'll become overwhelmed by people and so end up retreating before they become too attached :| not the best strategy, but I'm working on it.

Oh and I've been playing DnD since... omg... the 80s I haven't played pen and paper DnD for yearsssss though. I have a few guy friends who meet regularly to play and while they say they want me to play too, they claim it will be a problem with their wives if I do. lol. wtf. They're like look, they already make a fuss about us meeting every two weeks, and if we bring a woman into the mix it would be even worse. I totally get their point! lol Instead I play video games and have lots of "online" friends--I'm a tech nerd as well and all about the stats so for my DnD fix I play games like Pillars of Eternity and just recently started playing Path of Exile... uh oh.. I'm discovering it's a big rabbit hole to fall down :O

Thanks for your reply, girl a shame we don't live closer!

 

[Sfl]

I'm a female INTP 5w4 and I believe a healthy one. I generally like people allot and am interested in lots of things. I do tend to notice "flaws" in people, but I normally accept these as a person's quirks - nobody's perfect right? I admit to feeling slightly like an alien quite a bit of the time because I tend to see things a little differently to many other people. I guess it's hard to influence my opinions without convincing me with real reasons; traditions are generally unimportant to me. I tend to see things from multiple viewpoints. I am mostly laid back and don't care enough to insist on getting my way. If on the rare occasion I want to get my way, I plan my strategy to persuade anyone I need to and normally that works. I compensate for social awkwardness and shyness with my curiosity in people and things and my wish to be involved in activities and by using my mind to engage others. Not easy when I'm tired or under the weather, but otherwise I can be quite sociable. Generally I think people like me, because I am non-judgemental, try to be helpful and am enthusiastic about lots of things. My profession is science and my hobbies music, art and botany.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I'm a female INTP 5w4 and I believe a healthy one. I generally like people allot and am interested in lots of things. I do tend to notice "flaws" in people, but I normally accept these as a person's quirks - nobody's perfect right? I admit to feeling slightly like an alien quite a bit of the time because I tend to see things a little differently to many other people. I guess it's hard to influence my opinions without convincing me with real reasons; traditions are generally unimportant to me. I tend to see things from multiple viewpoints. I am mostly laid back and don't care enough to insist on getting my way. If on the rare occasion I want to get my way, I plan my strategy to persuade anyone I need to and normally that works. I compensate for social awkwardness and shyness with my curiosity in people and things and my wish to be involved in activities and by using my mind to engage others. Not easy when I'm tired or under the weather, but otherwise I can be quite sociable. Generally I think people like me, because I am non-judgemental, try to be helpful and am enthusiastic about lots of things. My profession is science and my hobbies music, art and botany.

Do you have a stance on bird-watching?