Fe = Easily Offended?

[iwakar]

Either you answer my questions in this thread maturely or I will report you. Your choice.

Are you delusional?

 

[ceecee]

Either you answer my questions in this thread maturely or I will report you. Your choice.

Are you offended or disgusted or both? At first I thought this was an ironic statement in light of the thread topic but, I'd rather get that clarified.

 

[Norrsken]

Are you offended or disgusted or both? At first I thought this was an ironic statement in light of the thread topic but, I'd rather get that clarified.

At this point I'm just pretty annoyed.
I think some people are thinking that I am insinuating that Fe users care more than Fi users do, which isn't really my intention.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

It's crazy because people like to think that inferior-fe users like the INTPs and ISTPs are stereotyped as unemotional and completely devoid of empathy, but they really aren't and they can be very outspoken against social injustices and inappropriate behaviors. Whenever our other siblings behave badly or fight with our parents needlessly, my INTP brother and I always shake our heads in disapproval and talk about it together. I guess it is a form of gossip, I don't know.

It's ultimately about fairness and principles, so I think seeing any violation of either can cause a big emotional reaction within that might not be as evident on the outside. Not too different from Fi doms, in some regards.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Fi users assume some degree of empathy from everyone. If someone does something that they find personally upsetting, they figure that the other person KNOWS that that would upset them, and did it anyways. Offense is always personal.

Fe users, otoh, assume a level of standards--whether it be in terms of ethics, propriety or what have you. They assume some governing set of interaction for a given context, and those that violate those standards are no longer apart of that context. My observation of Fe users is that they seem to find those perpetrators abhorrent somehow.

Nah, most of the time I am aware of a total lack of empathy in people, and it disgusts me

If I feel offense, it is when I interpret it through the other person's apparent standards. For instance, if someone is brusque with everyone, then I may see that as their manner and not take it personally. If they are super sweet to everyone and just brusque with me, then it may seem to be personal. If I see things unrelated to me as possible factors for this difference, then I also won't take it personally. So I don't jump to conclusions too fast with this sort of thing - I am pretty comfortable with a grey area of "no conclusion" for a while.

In giving so much benefit of the doubt though, I also give enough rope for people to hang themselves with.

If I feel immediately offended, then it is usually someone attributing wrong motive to me, invalidating my feeling or experience, etc. It often stems from a feeling of being judged unfairly and inaccurately. Or maybe I extend that to the misfits and outcasts too. And yes, that often means a lack of empathy or understanding, but it is that very thing that bothers me.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Nah, most of the time I am aware of a total lack of empathy in people, and it disgusts me

Were you always aware or was this a thing you learned after dealing with people?

 

[Evo]

comparatively, i don't think either fe or fi has a monopoly on being offended, but the ways they manage violations are almost opposite.

with heavy fe, you're going to get an immediate reaction, but you're also going to see that the issue is let go just as easily.

with heavy fi, you're going to get more rumination until the situation reaches critical mass.

this difference may explain the behaviors you see.

the big 5s 'neuroticism' trait probably does a better job of predicting how easily a person is offended.

This.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Were you always aware or was this a thing you learned after dealing with people?

Well, I grew up with that cliche Fi feeling of being misunderstood and alienated from others. I didn't see myself reflected in others very often. They didn't mirror anything back to me.

So I would say I always had it, but I had a more hopeless resignation attached to it that probably made me more withdrawn and defensive. I realize now that even if people lack empathy, that it is not hopeless to create understanding. I realized there is a paradox too - in expecting people to readily see multiple perspectives and grasp seemingly unusual feelings, I am asking them to be like me, which is kind of a lack of understanding of who they are on my part.

I suppose instead of bemoaning that others don't have this kind of perspective, I take it as a gift and see how I can use it. Primarily, I see embodying what I feel/my values (more than "preaching it"- demonstrating why it is valid), being an example (often through offering empathy/understanding), and expressing a bit more openly helps. The expressing part is hard.

I used to draw a lot and have wondered why I stopped and have little motivation to do it much anymore, even as I still enjoy it when I do; another INFP suggested it is because I don't need it as much anymore. I have developed the ability (and courage) to express the hard things with more direct communication. I will call out the elephant in the room, be an emotional truth-teller, stick my neck out to express a contrary viewpoint, etc. It often brings relief (ultimately) and allows people to address an emotion they had repressed and/or not been able to clarify. It's not necessarily gooey or pleasant...

In a way, my offended side comes out as basically pushing others to see different perspectives. If I feel personally violated in some way, then I can get vengeful, and it may secretive. In that case, I generally feel certain there was deliberate malice in someone, and as I noted, I don't come to such solid conclusions quickly, meaning it has built up over time and I tolerated it for too long. I can hardly remember being wrong about the other person; usually where I went wrong was not addressing it sooner and letting it get the best of me.

 

[Luke O]

I'm not very easily offended, this is one reason why whenever I'm in an argument with internet trolls I always win. I'm immune to their feeble attempts to provoke the reaction they want, while I gracefully and deftly find their pressure points and go to town on them.

I'm not disgusted very much by ultraviolence and gore, pictures or descriptions of such. But show me pictures/videos of eyes being removed/destroyed, the smell of vomit/faeces (I have a sensitive nose anyway), or pictures of Octomom/Honey Boo Boo's mom and you've got me cringing.

 

[Tater]

Thank you so much for posting!
Could it explain why a heavy Fe user (dom/aux) can forgive somebody more easily once they have the information as to why the offensive event occurred?

inconclusive.

openness and agreeableness probably play a bigger role.

 

[Norrsken]

inconclusive.

openness and agreeableness probably play a bigger role.

Would you say that the high openness and agreeableness correlates with the Fe function, though?

 

[violet_crown]

Nah, most of the time I am aware of a total lack of empathy in people, and it disgusts me

I, too, avoid feeling much of anything for any reason. Ever.

If I feel offense, it is when I interpret it through the other person's apparent standards. For instance, if someone is brusque with everyone, then I may see that as their manner and not take it personally. If they are super sweet to everyone and just brusque with me, then it may seem to be personal. If I see things unrelated to me as possible factors for this difference, then I also won't take it personally. So I don't jump to conclusions too fast with this sort of thing - I am pretty comfortable with a grey area of "no conclusion" for a while.

In giving so much benefit of the doubt though, I also give enough rope for people to hang themselves with.

If I feel immediately offended, then it is usually someone attributing wrong motive to me, invalidating my feeling or experience, etc. It often stems from a feeling of being judged unfairly and inaccurately. Or maybe I extend that to the misfits and outcasts too. And yes, that often means a lack of empathy or understanding, but it is that very thing that bothers me.

This definitely is a nuance I missed, and gets at a big reason why Fi will go for "offense" over Fe "disgust". On a certain level, I can see pretty much anyone's point if I consider things from their perspective. I often evaluate someone's behavior within the logic of that person, so my judgements err towards relativism.

I get the feeling that Fe users are a lot more comfortable with moral absolutes. If someone falls outside of those lines, depending on the Fe user, they might have some sympathy, but they're still going to recognize a violation as such.

It's really difficult for me to be objective about social norms in that way. I know some things are fucked up to do to someone, because I wouldn't want them to be done to me, but I won't necessarily have an opinion about the behavior in and of itself. Nothing is inherently bad or offensive to me, per se, it's more about the impact (which is the Te side of the equation). I have a pet theory that that's why political correctness drives Fe-users insane. The idea that something is not inherently bad except for it's impact to some group of individuals seems to drive Ti absolutely batty.

 

[á´…eparted]

Fi is easier to offend.

Fe is easier to disgust.

I think this is a good distinction. When I was thinking about it I thought "I don't really get offended per-say, and when I do it's almost always on someone elses behalf and very rarely personal. I just sort of get pissed off". I think disgust is the proper word here. Offended tends to imply some sort of personal violation (not nesscesarly feeling like it's personal against you, but like it is connected to something internally personal), and I just don't feel those sorts of things. Where as disgust tends to be more external and disconnected from the personal self. Generally speaking that is one of the biggest separations between Fe and Fi.

I know some things are fucked up to do to someone, because I wouldn't want them to be done to me, but I won't necessarily have an opinion about the behavior in and of itself. Nothing is inherently bad or offensive to me, per se, it's more about the impact (which is the Te side of the equation).

*twitch*

I think this does have to do more with Te than it does with Fi, but I have seen some Fi users have this sort of mindset as well (and Ti now that I think of it). Which feel sooooo wrong to me, and for a number of Fe users as well. To that sort of thing inherient bad is not separable from impact.

 

[Yama]

I don't know if it can be entirely related to either one of the feeling functions. I'm definitely more prone to feeling offended than disgusted but like floki said, for me it tends to be a quick compulsive burst and then forgotten. Though sometimes it hangs on rather than fading away as fast as it's come. It depends on the specific instance.

 

[Pionart]

The Thinking function is responsible for humour, so by corollary I would say that yes Feeling would be easily offended.

I would say Fe tends to be offended by Te, whereas Ti humour would likely be received much better.

 

[Tater]

Would you say that the high openness and agreeableness correlates with the Fe function, though?

i would say that high agreeableness correlates with high fe. openness... not so much.

let's say a. has a fair correlation with b. and b. has a fair correlation with c., the correlation between a. and c. could be weaker than the other two relationships to the point of statistical insignificance, because correlation exists on a spectrum of different values.

the most definitive answer i could guess is that fe users would be quicker to forgive when it is socially acceptable to do so, while fi users would be quicker to forgive when personal values permit. so, other variables come into play.

 

[Pionart]

In Big 5, agreeableness correlates with Feeling, and openness correlates with Intuition.

The MBTI often correlates openness with the P types, however extroverted sensation deals with things as they are - there is no need to consider new ideas, because they already see the truth. The Thinking and Feeling functions are biased, through a framework of logic or values, respectively. Intuition is constantly updating its understanding. Introverted sensation draws things back to what it already knows.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I, too, avoid feeling much of anything for any reason. Ever.

This definitely is a nuance I missed, and gets at a big reason why Fi will go for "offense" over Fe "disgust". On a certain level, I can see pretty much anyone's point if I consider things from their perspective. I often evaluate someone's behavior within the logic of that person, so my judgements err towards relativism.

I get the feeling that Fe users are a lot more comfortable with moral absolutes. If someone falls outside of those lines, depending on the Fe user, they might have some sympathy, but they're still going to recognize a violation as such.

It's really difficult for me to be objective about social norms in that way. I know some things are fucked up to do to someone, because I wouldn't want them to be done to me, but I won't necessarily have an opinion about the behavior in and of itself. Nothing is inherently bad or offensive to me, per se, it's more about the impact (which is the Te side of the equation). I have a pet theory that that's why political correctness drives Fe-users insane. The idea that something is not inherently bad except for it's impact to some group of individuals seems to drive Ti absolutely batty.

The vast majority of things strike me as context dependent, but some things are definitely inherently wrong to me. Impact is not the best measure in every case as that tends to be too short-sighted, and even a long-term view can prove too narrow or overly simplified (not seeing the complex connections in the big picture). I've never been a fan of "it's ok as long as no one gets hurt or has their rights violated" brand of morality for that reason, not cause it doesn't apply a LOT of the time, but because it doesn't apply across the board for the long-term.

I am not sure what you are saying about PCness...that Fe types are the most likely to enforce it? That is what I see. I see them try to enforce it but it is much too convoluted, perhaps a facet of their inferior, pedantic Ti coming out (needing very precise definitions). Higher Ti seems rather opposed to it, which interestingly can make Fe types privately enjoy "offensive" Ti humor, as a sort of release from this pressure they've created.

I feel like Fi and Te types tend to be so much more blunt, and as long as the intention is not malicious, then why get pedantic (of course, as a Fi type, I know how often my own intention can be misconstrued because of this). I think the personal offense aspect is seeing negative intent where people claim to have none (much as FPs can feel victim of that), but I will say that too often people DO act out of unconscious resentment, selfishness and/or ill will that they will not admit even to themselves. A clash with Fe is when they refuse to admit that their sense of an objective right being violated is really their own hurt feeling; they are not owning it as a personal preference or interpretation, which makes it hard to call them out on a bad motive, because they will hide behind some claim to objective ethics/morality.

 

[Kullervo]

It goes like this:

I get into an event where I witness something or somebody behaving in a way that is socially or even morally unacceptable. It could be somebody being unnecessarily rude. It could be me seeing a loud and brash group of teenagers behaving badly.
I immediately judge them, of course, I do this internally with nasty thoughts. Then I cannot help but say it out loud, not loud enough to make the other person hear it (this happened maybe once or twice lol), but I'll tell it to close friends to vent out what I think of the situation.
I'll have someone smirk and say, "You seem offended." to which I then, once again, act offended by such a suggestion.

Yes, this is something that can happen to me, as well. I judge people very quickly, automatically really, and in the past have had trouble keeping these thoughts to myself (or at least struggled to direct them artfully). I am now mature enough to realise that moral outrage isn't a healthy thing to share with the world. Immature Fe users often take offense "on behalf" of someone or something they aren't involved in because they feel some principle of theirs has been violated. This will earn you a reputation for being self-righteous.

Be selective with your generosity, for kindness is often interpreted as weakness. That is a lesson I have learned the hard way.

 

[violet_crown]

The vast majority of things strike me as context dependent, but some things are definitely inherently wrong to me.

How do you identify something as inherently wrong? What sort of actions or behaviors do you feel fall into that category?

I am not sure what you are saying about PCness...that Fe types are the most likely to enforce it? That is what I see.

The opposite, actually. I'm using the term "political correctness" in the sense of identity politics. Like, what kind of language do we use to respect groups who aren't our own.

My experience is that people who really buck at that concept tend to be Fe-users. An Fi-user who didn't feel like being PC wouldn't care about the taboo one way or the other. It goes back to what I was talking about re: disgust. Fe is more likely to care about the social pressure to follow that kind of speech, even if they don't agree with it, because they care more about the rejection/perceived disgust towards those who aren't PC.