F versus T. The hot & cot war.

[Xander]

Okay so I did something nice for an F today. IT didn't occur to me that it was especially nice until I'd done it, they commented and I re analysed the act.

To me it was a simple confidence booster. Something that said "I'm here to help, now go get them!!". If someone had done similar for me then it would have little effect, as far as I'd predict. It almost felt like I'd patted them on the head and yet they were happy with that.

So after this act I study myself to check and see if I'm using ulterior motives or similar (this is exaggerated, I'm much more MPD than this ) and found no evidence for thinking I was being manipulative. I'd just done this on a whim, cause it was a nice thing to do and yet it meaned so much to the F in question.

I was wondering if this was a common worry for Ts. Do you check/ double take to see why you'd done it and why such a simple gesture had such vast effect? Is there a similar play in reverse? (as in is there something's that Fs do which Ts find great and leaves the F sitting there scratching their bonce to try and figure out what the big deal is)

Note to F in question, this is thought not emotion. Don't go getting paranoid. What was true is true and the rest is mere suspicion. If this was a drawing it would state clearly "DO NOT SCALE".

 

[Natrushka]

I was wondering if this was a common worry for Ts. Do you check/ double take to see why you'd done it and why such a simple gesture had such vast effect? Is there a similar play in reverse?

Short answer: No.
Longer answer: Being more aware of other types I am now more aware that this happens. I know a few Fs and I know a lot of Ts, I treat them both the same way and from experience they've come to know that I speak my mind, I don't hide the truth so when I say something positive, or complimentary, it's heartfelt.

I have recently made the acquaintance of an INFP, however, someone I don't know as well, and who doesn't know me as well, and with her, I make sure that when I do have something complimentary to say, I say it.

Often I'll just not engage.

 

[ptgatsby]

I was wondering if this was a common worry for Ts. Do you check/ double take to see why you'd done it and why such a simple gesture had such vast effect? Is there a similar play in reverse? (as in is there something's that Fs do which Ts find great and leaves the F sitting there scratching their bonce to try and figure out what the big deal is)

Well, it really should only happen if you are trying to live up to a certain image... internally or externally. It may be a bad side effect of knowing your type...

It doesn't help that you are INTP - we always seem to question why we do things, to understand ourselves and others... I don't think it's a T thing as much as an N thing, judging from my friends and family!

 

[runvardh]

Okay so I did something nice for an F today. IT didn't occur to me that it was especially nice until I'd done it, they commented and I re analysed the act.

To me it was a simple confidence booster. Something that said "I'm here to help, now go get them!!". If someone had done similar for me then it would have little effect, as far as I'd predict. It almost felt like I'd patted them on the head and yet they were happy with that.

So after this act I study myself to check and see if I'm using ulterior motives or similar (this is exaggerated, I'm much more MPD than this ) and found no evidence for thinking I was being manipulative. I'd just done this on a whim, cause it was a nice thing to do and yet it meaned so much to the F in question.

I was wondering if this was a common worry for Ts. Do you check/ double take to see why you'd done it and why such a simple gesture had such vast effect? Is there a similar play in reverse? (as in is there something's that Fs do which Ts find great and leaves the F sitting there scratching their bonce to try and figure out what the big deal is)

Note to F in question, this is thought not emotion. Don't go getting paranoid. What was true is true and the rest is mere suspicion. If this was a drawing it would state clearly "DO NOT SCALE".

Back when I first tried dating a T online I ended up with a worry that I was taking too much. It ended up reacting to my confidence issues and I dropped the ball. These days though few Ts surprise me with their reactions and when they do it's not for long (I'm talking on the order of seconds). I will admit though that I constantly worry about seeming manipulative and it is a relief when I don't come off as such.

 

[Totenkindly]

Words of encouragement like that (like someone saying, "Oh, it'll be okay!") usually do not do me much good because the problem/situation itself that disturbed me so greatly has not changed.

Internally, I'm usually feeling, "Well, okay, that's nice... but how am I going to get through this?!"

The only time it really matters to me is if my problem (or at least an underlying problem) is that I feel lonely and/or like no one cares about me -- then they are actually addressing one of my problems and the encouragement feels relevant to me.

F's seem to respond so much better to that sort of thing and even need it in order to function -- often it seems like the problem itself is less terrifying than the thought of going through it unsupported and alone.

Still, I don't "make up" encouragement just to make them feel better. If I care enough about them to want to encourage them, then I'll say it.

If I don't care (or if I feel like they are overly dependent and need to learn how to go ahead on their own), I will just say nothing at all and avoid the whole thing, rather than saying something negative.

 

[Xander]

But are there things which Fs do sometimes which to them may be offhand to them but means a lot to Ts?

I ask because I don't hand out compliments on a regular basis because it just doesn't occur to me that others require such things. Yes I appreciate that kind of feedback but somehow that fails to translate into me giving that kind of feedback. However when I'm dealing with someone who's upset then comments which, though heartfelt and meant, sound cheesy to me or just not sincere sometimes really work. I've no idea why.

Do Fs perhaps sometimes throw out a thought which though obvious and transparent to them will fascinate a T no end?

That kind of thing.

PT,
I think you could be right with the whole N thing. Esp NT. "What for" comes to mind.

Natrushka,
I am envious. I try to do likewise but seem to mess it up somewhere. Probably whilst getting too involved.

I'm one of those who just wishes he could be an INTJ. Least I'd know I was right

Runvardh,
You worry about you seeming manipulative? I worry that I seem as such. It would seem that the reds and the blues (Fs and Ts) can be maipulative but in their own inimitable style.

Jennifer,
I think you're a negative feedback person. It's not always the MBTI bit. I like to have a pat on the head, gives me energy. It doesn't work for my sister though. Often she'll have your hand off.

 

[Totenkindly]

Do Fs perhaps sometimes throw out a thought which though obvious and transparent to them will fascinate a T no end?

It's hard to tell how an F is approaching things internally (i.e., "I really wanted to say something encouraging, and instead I brought up a new idea, and boy did the T seem pleased!"). Hopefully some of them will answer with anecdotes of their own.

Jennifer, I think you're a negative feedback person.

Grrrr....! [snap, gnash]

So... what does that mean exactly? (A little vague)

It's not always the MBTI bit. I like to have a pat on the head, gives me energy. It doesn't work for my sister though. Often she'll have your hand off.

[chomp!]

I guess I don't like pats much. I used to have a cow when people invaded my body space without permission, and sometimes I have the same reaction to an emotional pat.

of course, you have a perky happy snuggly little squirrel as an avatar... so people no doubt feel compelled to pat you on the head.

 

[Natrushka]

I'm one of those who just wishes he could be an INTJ. Least I'd know I was right

Stop trying to manipulate me!

 

[Xander]

It's hard to tell how an F is approaching things internally (i.e., "I really wanted to say something encouraging, and instead I brought up a new idea, and boy did the T seem pleased!"). Hopefully some of them will answer with anecdotes of their own.

Right. I'll go get the fluffy toys and you set up the prize draw

So... what does that mean exactly? (A little vague)

Oh no you were quite clear

Negative feedback is difficult for me to describe I don't understand it fully though I understand positive feedback well.

AS far as I understand it you could tell a positive feedback person they they were brilliant with little cause to and they would respond positively to this. If you tried the same with a negative feedback person (cough.. Raincrow... cough) you may be fed your compliment intravenously or alternatively they may simply ignore it.

When giving feedback a positive feedback person can give praise where a negative feedback person would feel awkward (kinda TvsF difference).

Give a positive feedback person a project, when they finish point out what they did well and they will be all happy and go and try to do even better to get more praise (much like a dog and no I'm not happy that this works on me).

Now do the same with a negative feedback person but instead point out where they were weak, give them their dues where they are strong but don't overplay it. Then watch them set their jaws and try to be perfect.

Does that help?

I guess I don't like pats much. I used to have a cow when people invaded my body space without permission, and sometimes I have the same reaction to an emotional pat.

Mental note :- DO NOT pinch Jennifer's ass.
That could be as much to do with confidence as feedback type though. I don't like physical praise. I go tense and look all nervous and victimised.

of course, you have a perky happy snuggly little squirrel as an avatar... so people no doubt feel compelled to pat you on the head.

You saw Sdalek's thread right? You saw what we can do. Just watch it whispy person. Us squirrels are dangerous.

 

[Natrushka]

I guess I don't like pats much. I used to have a cow when people invaded my body space without permission, and sometimes I have the same reaction to an emotional pat.

Ditto. In person, I bristle and will back up. Online, I hit 'Back'.

 

[Xander]

Stop trying to manipulate me!

Who me?

I wouldn't dare!

 

[Xander]

Ditto. In person, I bristle and will back up. Online, I hit 'Back'.

This is good. I'm not sure my recognition of reality could withstand finding a positive feedback INTJ.

 

[Natrushka]

When giving feedback a positive feedback person can give praise where a negative feedback person would feel awkward (kinda TvsF difference).

Give a positive feedback person a project, when they finish point out what they did well and they will be all happy and go and try to do even better to get more praise (much like a dog and no I'm not happy that this works on me).

Now do the same with a negative feedback person but instead point out where they were weak, give them their dues where they are strong but don't overplay it. Then watch them set their jaws and try to be perfect.

Does that help?

It helps me. I'm a negative feedback person. Positive feedback can make my eyes glaze over, but include some "objective" comments and point out where things could have been done better, and I'm all ears.

My ISTJ husband responds best to positive feedback. Peppered with lots of superlatives.

And how the hell did you get all those damned quotes to work for you? My posts keep getting truncated.

 

[Xander]

It helps me. I'm a negative feedback person. Positive feedback can make my eyes glaze over, but include some "objective" comments and point out where things could have been done better, and I'm all ears.

Yeah that sounds right. Better than I put it.

Mind you though try dealing with an ENFJ who's negative feedback! ESP in the presence of a very positive feedback ENTJ!! Confusing!

And how the hell did you get all those damned quotes to work for you? My posts keep getting truncated.

I just copy the origional format like "{quote=Natrushka;27686}" (obviously using square brackets when I do) and close each section off with "{/quote}".

Why what's your preferred technique

 

[Totenkindly]

Right. I'll go get the fluffy toys and you set up the prize draw

Do you think they're really bite, or have they gotten too crafty for us?

AS far as I understand it you could tell a positive feedback person they they were brilliant with little cause to and they would respond positively to this. If you tried the same with a negative feedback person (cough.. Raincrow... cough) you may be fed your compliment intravenously or alternatively they may simply ignore it.

Oh. Yes, that makes sense. My ESFP son is a positive feedback person (you need to feed him encouragement and positive comments even when he is being a complete irresponsible blowoff, or he gets depressed and stops trying completely), whereas I am skeptical of encouraging comments -- not cynical, just skeptical.

I remember as a child being just the same way. Most compliments seemed ill-founded to me, while I took criticism to heart.

Give a positive feedback person a project, when they finish point out what they did well and they will be all happy and go and try to do even better to get more praise (much like a dog and no I'm not happy that this works on me).

Oh, what a wonderful concept, Xander! You were so brilliant to think of it! Gosh, I am so lucky to know you! Do you have any other good ideas that crossed your mind recently, oh, I would love to hear them!

<gets out notepad and pen, studies Xander's response carefully>

Now do the same with a negative feedback person but instead point out where they were weak, give them their dues where they are strong but don't overplay it. Then watch them set their jaws and try to be perfect.

Yes, that part. That's it. Most of my life has been a drive to be perfect (and/or at least beyond reproach).

Mental note :- DO NOT pinch Jennifer's ass.

I was fully expecting that comment from SOMEONE... just not the first person who posted!!

Disclaimer: In the case of asses, I'm willing to make an exception to the above rules: Affirm my ass as much as you like, while avoiding critical commentary.

 

[Natrushka]

I suspect it's the browser. I will not use IE, however. </principle>

My BIL is an ENFJ, I'd peg him positive feedback. But I can't be sure. He drives me nuts, so I'd rather not have to find out....

 

[cafe]

I live for pats on the head. If Don fails to pat me at the necessary times I remind him. He's getting pretty good at it. Everybody's happier that way.

He does not like pats on the head, so I keep my praise for him very low key. Otherwise, he seems to feel his autonomy threatened and stops doing what I'm praising him for. I also pretend I don't notice he's doing a mundane task I want done until it's done (the autonomy thing again or something) unless he asks me for help.

 

[Xander]

You mean that ass comes in affirm version too?


Now there's negative feedback up the whazoo

 

[Totenkindly]

He does not like pats on the head, so I keep my praise for him very low key. Otherwise, he seems to feel his autonomy threatened and stops doing what I'm praising him for. I also pretend I don't notice he's doing a mundane task I want done until it's done (the autonomy thing again or something) unless he asks me for help.

It sounds like you are getting pretty good at figuring him out too!

I have the same quirks -- if someone makes a big deal out of something I have done (when I didn't think it was a big deal), I am prone not to do it again. And I don't know how many times I have struggled with doing something I had already planned to do... just because C asked me to do it before I could start doing it on my own. (It no longer seems like my idea again -- yes, the autonomy thing!)

You mean that ass comes in affirm version too?

Hey, I have to use what assets I have!

 

[cafe]

I was wondering if this was a common worry for Ts. Do you check/ double take to see why you'd done it and why such a simple gesture had such vast effect? Is there a similar play in reverse? (as in is there something's that Fs do which Ts find great and leaves the F sitting there scratching their bonce to try and figure out what the big deal is)

I am generally well aware of my motives for doing things, ulterior or otherwise, so I don't double check unless something weird happens.

If someone does/says something above and beyond for/to me and it appears out of place, I question their motives.