Istbkleta said:
I've noticed some similiraties with ESTJs. I wonder if it's some kind of a Je-Ne loop that forces them to try to be "perfect" in every way/scenario (Ne) in their respective field (Fe for how people percieve me, Te for being right etc.). Which leads to self delusion and denial.
I think the justification thing is more of a human issue in general of not seeing through each others' perspectives very well. I found it interesting that @
Unkindloving as an ENFJ wrote that, because my ENFJ best friend did that to me so badly once that our friendship almost ended because of it - she told me a secret but didn't tell me that it was secret, so I shared the information, then she accused me for the fallout - in her words, I "should have known" it was a secret.
It may be that Je types have more of a tendency towards it because they pick up on "shared" Fe/Te measures better - for example, what would be commonly held to be socially inappropriate (Fe) or what would be most expedient given the external bounds (Te). To a more internally-tuned Ji type, it is much less clear. In my case, I suspect that my ENFJ friend assumed that I had the same social radar as her and would automatically pick up that this was information not meant to be shared. To be fair, I understood it was privileged, but I responded in kind by not telling anyone
except one person I trusted, and then she did the same by telling one person
she trusted - who also told one person, who happened to be the original secret-teller, the one who told my ENFJ friend. So it actually never left that small loop of 5 people - the fallout was because the information had been leaked elsewhere, by someone else. To this day, I feel that it was unfair that my ENFJ friend held it against me, because
she did the same thing I did. But she seems to judge more on external impact than internal processing, and to her it appeared that I had caused the fallout (though I think the truth is more that she is an enneagram 3, and she was angry that I "exposed" her to a person she held in high regard).
The largest frustrations I have with the ESFJs I have had interactions with enough to confidently identify as ESFJ (and especially the Enneagram 2 variety) is the martyr complex in addition to external pushiness. It turns into this pattern where they do something that doesn't really help me or really isn't pleasing to me, but they think it's good for me, and then they get upset with me for not appreciating the thing I didn't want in the first place. Given, it has taught be to be more graceful about receiving unwanted gifts, but I still have trouble bringing myself to demonstrate much gratitude beyond "thank you for your kindness".
That said, their enthusiasm, positivity, warmth, and practicality are excellent qualities. I think they are often the ones responsible for the daily upkeep and fostering of human lives - teachers, nurses, administrators, social workers.