[ESFJ] ESFJ Hate Thread

[citizen cane]

I saw something once that said only a very small percentage of persons tested as having functions in the 'proper' order.

 

[The Iron Giant]

Let's get [MENTION=15167]Stephen[/MENTION] in hear to talk about Si.

Si is good.

 

[The Iron Giant]

Well to be fair...neither am I...whatever SJ-ish means. Is it to do with that notion of putting things in order and abiding by the rules?

Inorite?

I'm not a fan of Keirsey, so I look at SJ as shorthand for "conscious Si user." Of course, by Jung's text, all that really means is there's typically an instinctive disconnect between the object and our perception of it. Keirsey and others extrapolated on this and decided that we're all about memory, I guess. I really think he hated Si users, but he wouldn't be alone. Isabel Briggs-Myers was quoted as saying if she had known her husband was an ISTJ, she never would have married him. (what a cunt thing to say about one's spouse) Some of those later descriptions decided we're all strict and traditional and stuff too. *shrugs* In some ways I fit some parts of Keirsey's temperament, and in others I do not. I have at times wanted to label myself as an ISTJ in the NF temperament with NT interests. Oh freaking well.

Have I mentioned that I'm not fond of Keirsey?

 

[The Iron Giant]

I saw something once that said only a very small percentage of persons tested as having functions in the 'proper' order.

I'm glad you brought this up. There are a few schools of thought on this.

One is that function tests should only be used to guess at your dominant function, and the rest of the results ought to be ignored once you figure that out, and replaced with the traditional function order. Since tests are highly inaccurate, no matter how well written, they're only a finger pointing in a certain direction so you know where to start looking. I personally think they become less useful over time, since at some point you start recognizing why the questions in the tests are asking what they're asking, and then you may start interfering with the results due to your preconceptions. I took my first such tests with no understanding or knowledge of MBTI or function theory and came up very close: ESTJ, but then again, I was only a few points from coming up INTJ.

Another is that function order is so ambiguous and seemingly guessed at by those who came after Jung, building on his work, that there is no real reason to assume they must be in the order proposed in MBTI... which would mean maybe there is no "proper" order. And let's face it, MBTI's creators redefined some of the functions in order to make them better fit together for the typing instrument. To me, that's kind of like snipping tabs off of puzzle pieces so you can put it together faster. It looks like shit.

I really like Jung's cognitive function theory and his description of the functions. As a (self described) sensor he is also less likely to show the common bias against those preferences. This is borne out by the fact that he describes every type in very negative ways... unsurprising, considering the vast amount of personal data he drew on to form his theories came from his real world concrete observation of his patients, most of whom would have been somewhat unhealthy.

Even the ones he wasn't banging. (that would have been the dudes I guess)

 

[The Great One]

Si is good.

No! Si is bad! VERY BAD!

 

[The Iron Giant]

No! Si is bad! VERY BAD!

Right! Right, sorry. You said Si! I thought you said fried coconut shrimp.

Which is very, very good.

 

[Cimarron]

Isabel Briggs-Myers was quoted as saying if she had known her husband was an ISTJ, she never would have married him.

Rofflewaffle......

"Madam, if I were your husband, I would drink it (the poison)."

 

[The Great One]

Right! Right, sorry. You said Si! I thought you said fried coconut shrimp.

Which is very, very good.

Damn that looks good right now.

 

[RaptorWizard]

The only type worse than ESFJ is ENFJ. Oh the horror! :horor:

 

[The Iron Giant]

Damn that looks good right now.

Doesn't it? I love Si.

 

[Giggly]

I saw something once that said only a very small percentage of persons tested as having functions in the 'proper' order.

Yes, I've thought this too, which brings the whole MBTI theory into question.

 

[Unkindloving]

I know three male ESFJs, and maybe one female.
Typically, I see they have ragingly good and wholesome intentions, as well as a large capacity for understanding (oh cherished little Fe).

Otherwise, I see them as people who let themselves get steamrolled, have extremely high and unreasonable expectations through which they don't grasp how to really maintain healthy friendships/relationships, and who lack boundaries in a lot of scenarios. The ones I've known are frequently in "victim" mode. They don't acknowledge and/or alter the wrong they may do, and frequently find ways to justify their wrong as someone else's wrong. The ones I've known are very commonly naive, damaged, insecure, but absolute control-freaks who overexert in social situations in attempt to cure their issues. None of them have really realized their own internal ailments and how they affect their actions.

The only type worse than ESFJ is ENFJ. Oh the horror! :horor:

Don't make me eat you.

 

[Cellmold]

Don't make me eat you.

He's right though.

 

[RaptorWizard]

He's right though.

Of course ESFJs are better since you fellows are such nurturing and lovable little pumpkins while those dang ENFJs are these psychotic leaders that are all about this crazy divine sense of moral righteousness and justice all the while forgoing all of the greatest pleasures of life that we SPs so powerfully embrace in their full and complete manifestations!

 

[Cellmold]

Of course ESFJs are better since you fellows are such nurturing and lovable little pumpkins while those dang ENFJs are these psychotic leaders that are all about this crazy divine sense of moral righteousness and justice all the while forgoing all of the greatest pleasures of life that we SPs so powerfully embrace in their full and complete manifestations!

Exactly! Also dont forget the cults that ENFJ's set up.

 

[The Great One]

Doesn't it? I love Si.

What the hell does that sandwich have to do with Si?

 

[The Iron Giant]

What the hell does that sandwich have to do with Si?

I cannot teach him.

The boy has no patience.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.

I am afraid Stephen that The Great One is an agent of evil as he has taken the quick and easy path down the dark side.

 

[The Iron Giant]

I am afraid Stephen that The Great One is an agent of evil as he has taken the quick and easy path down the dark side.

That wasn't supposed to happen outside the expanded universe. >_<

 

[Grublet]

What the hell does that sandwich have to do with Si?

You must sense the sandwich before you can perceive the sandwich.