[NT] entps who seem like entjs

[Bay]

Actually it has nothing to do with Te. Most ENTP type 8 are not bordeline ENTXs or near ENTJs. If anything, a type 8 ENTP will look more Seish than Teish.

GD J0B

 

[JustHer]

Y'all wish.

 

[yenom]

Y'all wish.

wish what? frankly i don't give a damn.

 

[Silencio]

wish what? frankly i don't give a damn.

Your excessing hostility towards the situation would imply you have a serious case of J envy.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I either fuck around with them to get them more frustrated, or, I'll match [exceed] their style of aggressiveness and directness.

I'm sneaky when I find that the person will most likely be useful to me in the future, hence, I don't want to burn those bridges.

I'm funny if I find whatever the other person's issue is, to be ridiculous and so far off, that it's not worth the effort to rationally explain. Hence, dicking around with them. OR. If I understand that I caught that person in a 'mood' and that they're usually someone I actually like/respect, so I'm letting them slide by turning on the joke-funny meter to react to them. To diffuse the situation. The funnies are quite opposites in each of these two scenarios.

And, when I bring my aggressiveness, it's because I want to most effectively erase/remove them from my existence. Hence, it's not pretty. I think I'm perceptive enough to know how to mess with people, what makes them tick, and when this happens, I go for the jugular, and hard.

This last one is very rare, but it has happened. Only once in my life have I been pushed this far....although, not with an ENTJ. But, an unhealthy ESFP. She even got her boyfriend on the phone to help her with her side of the argument against me, asked me for breaks in between her sobbing and running up and down the stairs. While I sat unmoving for the whole thing, eating my grapes. And, by the end of it, she was in a pathetic heap on the floor begging me to stop. That friendship was effectively broken, which was my intention as she wouldn't get the hints otherwise, and thought it was fun to see how far she could test me. I showed her how far my far was.

I believe I am 7w8.

 

[sgtmac_46]

My closest ENTP friend is 8w7 and she is a human bulldozer. No joke. She is Ne dominant, definitely, but she doesn't take kindly to people imposing on her or even thinking of imposing on her. She was in a relationship for years with an ENTJ... and she pwned him the entire time . He was very diplomatic; ENTJ diplomacy doesn't tend to get much press but I've never known an ENTJ to be short on it, even if they can be forceful. I had to give them the MBTI just to see what kind of types would produce this kind of dynamic, I guessed their types beforehand but I had to be sure.



With an ENTP 8, all of the above.

I'm the same way. I'm definitely ENTP but Type 8, and share many traits when provoked of ENTJ's.

When provoked I like to crush my enemies, to drive them before me and to hear the lamentations of their women!

 

[sgtmac_46]

There sure are.

I second that.

 

[Qre:us]

I'm the same way. I'm definitely ENTP but Type 8, and share many traits when provoked of ENTJ's.

When provoked I like to crush my enemies, to drive them before me and to hear the lamentations of their women!

 

[tinkerbell]

I knew an ENTJ who just regularly reduced this poor girl to tears. He was protective of her, but just constantly cranked up to 11 with his opinions. I think he was trying to fix her (and she could have used some fixing, but I'm hand's off with that), but she never changed anything. She just cried over and over, and he'd tell her the tears were part of her problem (they were).

Well brutality is a method that I don't personally think i all that healthy or nessesary. This girl sounds like she is beign abused... regularly reduced to tears... doesn't sound healthy at all

 

[tinkerbell]

If someone were crying in front of me, the last thing I would ever do is tell them tears were part of their problem.
Anyone who would tell someone that is an idiot.
But then there are a lot of idiots in the world, so what else is new?

I agree, but there are ENTJ's who see that type of brutality as therapy for their disfunctional parts of themselves.

 

[JustHer]

I agree, but there are ENTJ's who see that type of brutality as therapy for their disfunctional parts of themselves.

^ nothing to do with being ENTJ but continue.

 

[Jaguar]

I agree, but there are ENTJ's who see that type of brutality as therapy for their disfunctional parts of themselves.

Brutality? I think the word "sadistic" is more like it.
Invariably, when someone is crying I always do whatever I can to make them feel better.
I usually go the comical route, by trying to get them to laugh.

I can't even remotely identify with a piece of shit person who would actually enjoy making a woman cry.
(If she was a serial-killer, then I'd make her cry.) Lol.

BTW, Tinker, your MBTI stereotyping is reaching an obnoxious level.

 

[tinkerbell]

Brutality? I think the word "sadistic" is more like it.
Invariably, when someone is crying I always do whatever I can to make them feel better.
I usually go the comical route, by trying to get them to laugh.

I can't even remotely identify with a piece of shit person who would actually enjoy making a woman cry.
(If she was a serial-killer, then I'd make her cry.) Lol.

BTW, Tinker, your MBTI stereotyping is reaching an obnoxious level.

I don't dissagree with you that its sadistic... Lots of NTs are not best comfortable dealign with other peoples emotions... they may feel empathetic, but the whole huggy touchy thing is uncomortable.

Thanks for the feedback on my MBTI skills but I do call it as I see it..... I'm not trying to concur with people simply say what I see.

For what it's worth - when I was hanging out here earlier in the summer every single post I ever saw from you was not particularly pleasant to people, until the Santiu (?sp) got engaged... I SWEAR to god I nearly fell of my chair when I read your post to it... it was pleasant, even quite happy... I was totally gobsmacked, because every other post I'd read was unpleasant..... slowly but surely your unpleasant posts have taled off a bit until I'd actually chat to you.

 

[BlahBlahNounBlah]

In the ENTJ guy's defense, the woman was a very sensitive asshole. A liar, a cheat, a thief, spiteful and selfish, had an addictive personality, made the worst decisions, and never learned from her mistakes. But she was also charismatic, funny, emotional, and easy to like. I think he was trying to help her with a little tough love, but he would just try the same blunt instrument over and over and it never worked.

(there may have been a strange s&m dynamic going on there ... hmm)

 

[tinkerbell]

In the ENTJ guy's defense, the woman was a very sensitive asshole. A liar, a cheat, a thief, spiteful and selfish, had an addictive personality, made the worst decisions, and never learned from her mistakes. But she was also charismatic, funny, emotional, and easy to like. I think he was trying to help her with a little tough love, but he would just try the same blunt instrument over and over and it never worked.

(there may have been a strange s&m dynamic going on there ... hmm)

but it's still abuse, even if she is a mess and submissive, his behaviour is not right

And it isn't fully representive of the ones I know...... but I'd stand by the manipulative and agressive stuff

 

[JustHer]

but it's still abuse, even if she is a mess and submissive, his behaviour is not right

But being a liar cheat and thief is right? How is that better

 

[tinkerbell]

But being a liar cheat and thief is right? How is that better

Take that up with the poster

 

[jenocyde]

also, what happens when entps and entjs get into conflict? are entps just as aggressive and direct, or are they more sneaky and funny?

I get along very well with ExTJs and my little sis is ENTJ. When in conflict, she argues at first but always ends up cowering from me. That is never my intention but I think that she can lost in my flurry of well selected words and ends up dismissing me rather than forming an actual argument. I guess when I actually stop joking around, I have a very direct, no-nonsense air of finality in my statements that makes people scared of me. It always baffles me because I can't see it.

...This last one is very rare, but it has happened. Only once in my life have I been pushed this far....

When the argument is less topical and more serious, I can be quite nasty and I wield Fe like a sword. Earlier this summer, someone seriously crossed me in a financially damaging way and I systematically set apart ruining his business and his reputation - all while looking like the good guy (which I *was*) to everyone else. He begged me to stop and I did, once I was satisfied that he felt his consequences. This is not who I like to be, but I will stop at nothing once a certain threshold has been crossed.

If someone were crying in front of me, the last thing I would ever do is tell them tears were part of their problem.
Anyone who would tell someone that is an idiot.

I don't know... I've said that before. Some people use tears as manipulation, or as an easy way out, and it annoys me.

 

[the state i am in]

Actually it has nothing to do with Te. Most ENTP type 8 are not bordeline ENTXs or near ENTJs. If anything, a type 8 ENTP will look more Seish than Teish.

Overall I think EP is a better representation of enneagram 8 than Te.
Te is just artificially pumped up strength that made the user look like enneagram 8, when they are actually moving towards enneagram 1.

i think of Te as the boss, as in-charge, as in-control, aggressive, get the fuck out of my way, etc. Se promotes larger presence, physical awareness and physicality as an attitude (air of confidence), but only when it comes to interpersonal interaction. how does 8 transmute dominant Ne to look more Se? less crazy and more focused? less patterns and more is-what-it-is objects in the perceptual field? i see entp 8 as bending Ti to be more Te, fusing on certain judgments more aggressively and fixedly, perhaps the Se explanation vs Ne of 7s is what accounts for this. a far more methodical, consistent deployment of Ne perception to achieve something more specific. i think Fe tends to drop away more with 8s, which also creates less holism overall and more direct linearity.

I get along very well with ExTJs and my little sis is ENTJ. When in conflict, she argues at first but always ends up cowering from me. That is never my intention but I think that she can lost in my flurry of well selected words and ends up dismissing me rather than forming an actual argument. I guess when I actually stop joking around, I have a very direct, no-nonsense air of finality in my statements that makes people scared of me. It always baffles me because I can't see it.

When the argument is less topical and more serious, I can be quite nasty and I wield Fe like a sword. Earlier this summer, someone seriously crossed me in a financially damaging way and I systematically set apart ruining his business and his reputation - all while looking like the good guy (which I *was*) to everyone else. He begged me to stop and I did, once I was satisfied that he felt his consequences. This is not who I like to be, but I will stop at nothing once a certain threshold has been crossed.

I don't know... I've said that before. Some people use tears as manipulation, or as an easy way out, and it annoys me.

the systematic is one of the issues i am trying to understand. your directness makes me think very strong 8.

i think the functions might be described by Ne-Ti as simulating, internally, and then enacting on the said plan when each step of the way is clear and well thought out. whereas Te focuses on working backwards more, thinking of the end, then dividing into an outlined series of goals and subgoals. Ne-Ti would just continually generate new threads and new areas of inquiry.

yet this intense 8/w8 focus seems so difficult for me to comprehend in light of that. how different entp 8w7 would be from their intp 5 brethren. the constant re-doing, re-visiting, more brainstorming, more angles/perspectives generated, more approaches to an almost paralyzing place. perhaps better Fe makes them more likely and skilled in estimating the other and going straight for hte juggular. an interest and excitement in social power games, and recognizing where the weakest spots are (going straight up machiavelli on these fools, etc).

Ts with 8 seem more agitated/angry at having to attend to others emotional states. they see them as a false sense of judgment as if they violate this T bill of rights, and thusly are not just. F types do not pair down judgment to specific causal relationships, it is more about the whole feel, the overall, the mood, the implications (world of the implicit, suggestive, etc). putting someone in checkmate or influencing someone else by your mood achieve the same result, and the question of "what is fair" does not reduce to "a world more suitable for T types and less suitable for F types." there are many Ts who espouse ideas just as fucking stupid as many of the F types do.

edit: i meant to say, dumb is annoying, regardless of the method. the line is fine between crying to avoid blame and crying bc there is something seriously going wrong in their sense of the whole. a wound which is injuring the system. you may see something which you think would solve the problem, or you may have the variables identified in a way that satisfies you, but this analytical reduction may not feel relevant for the F person. people sometimes need to be led from one state to another thru more steps. most of them never make it and stick to the same fucking values as day 1. but some people are smart enough to at least develop a bit of sophistication, or perhaps re-frame various problems in slightly more lenient, or focused, or logical, or holistic ways.

 

[entropie]

I love it how he/she never says something in own words